Horrible Quality Paint
10-03-2011, 12:30 AM
#1
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Horrible Quality Paint
I washed my E350 today for the 3rd time after I got the car about a month ago. I've been putting 2 coats of Z5 every time I've washed it to lock in the polymers. Today, I didn't put any Zaino, I just washed and dried with a chamois and some 100% microfiber cotton towels. In the sunlight and under a LED flashlight, I noticed that the rear bumper had thousands of water spots all over the place. I tried claying, it didn't work. I tried vinegar, it didn't work. It's only on the rear bumper as well! Literally, outside the lines of the rear bumper, the paint is perfect.
Why are these water spots just on my rear bumper and no where else? It's not even around the license plate where the tail lights are, just underneath the load sill. The bumper is also sticking out on the sides.
I have a feeling that the dealer replaced my rear bumper before I bought it... but maybe I'm just crazy. After all, the paint looks different and the bumper is misaligned.
Will the dealer polish out these water spots for free? There are thousands of them and I didn't cause them because its apparent that there are no other water spots on the car.
NOTE: I also have rust spots on some spots of the car. In the sun, these spots look like dark blue water spots on my black car. Does anyone have these problems?
My bumper looks something like this: http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/a...88/tpyota5.jpg
Why are these water spots just on my rear bumper and no where else? It's not even around the license plate where the tail lights are, just underneath the load sill. The bumper is also sticking out on the sides.
I have a feeling that the dealer replaced my rear bumper before I bought it... but maybe I'm just crazy. After all, the paint looks different and the bumper is misaligned.
Will the dealer polish out these water spots for free? There are thousands of them and I didn't cause them because its apparent that there are no other water spots on the car.
NOTE: I also have rust spots on some spots of the car. In the sun, these spots look like dark blue water spots on my black car. Does anyone have these problems?
My bumper looks something like this: http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/a...88/tpyota5.jpg
Last edited by newyorktoLA; 10-03-2011 at 12:33 AM.
10-03-2011, 12:43 AM
#2
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The front and rear bumper covers are made out of the same material...so obviously, they should look the same. If they are different, as you suggest, then your dealer should address the issue. It does sound and look very strange.
10-03-2011, 02:52 AM
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
WTF. What happened to your car before you bought it.
First off, RUST? You actually mean like rust.. RUST? Can you post pics. I don't know how that could even be possible.
My car has absolutely no such problems (knock on wood).
Also, what does "Lock in the Polymers" mean? I assume that you lock them in via the Wax, but where do the Polymers come from (are they in the Zaino Wax)?.
And yes, they definitely will polish it out. Just be adamant about how unacceptable it is to you that you have those spots, and how they've been there since you got the car.
First off, RUST? You actually mean like rust.. RUST? Can you post pics. I don't know how that could even be possible.
My car has absolutely no such problems (knock on wood).
Also, what does "Lock in the Polymers" mean? I assume that you lock them in via the Wax, but where do the Polymers come from (are they in the Zaino Wax)?.
And yes, they definitely will polish it out. Just be adamant about how unacceptable it is to you that you have those spots, and how they've been there since you got the car.
10-03-2011, 07:57 AM
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2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
What the OP describes arecommon environmental contaminants. This is not a paint quality issue at all. Ths is a car care issue. Waterspots are very acidic in some locations and etch quickly into the paint. Surface born contaminates can cause the surface rust. Puting coats of Z5 over top of the water spots just selas them in. I would suggest that the OP take the car to a professional detailer and have all put right. Then leave the washing to the pros.
10-03-2011, 10:50 AM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
What the OP describes arecommon environmental contaminants. This is not a paint quality issue at all. Ths is a car care issue. Waterspots are very acidic in some locations and etch quickly into the paint. Surface born contaminates can cause the surface rust. Puting coats of Z5 over top of the water spots just selas them in. I would suggest that the OP take the car to a professional detailer and have all put right. Then leave the washing to the pros.
A few things to ponder:
A "seal" on a car's paint is only as good as the cleanliness of the surface below.
Most (all?) dealerships do a very poor job prepping a car. They wash it and pour some glaze on. Looks great until the glaze wears off then you see all the swirl marks.
Very few dealerships properly remove rail dust (the stuff you see as rust) that gets on the paint during transport, preservative and glue residue. You'll need to wash, clay and polish the car to rid of those. Use 3M's Adhesive remover to remove the bits of glue stuck in roof rails and door jambs.
MB's warranty documentation used to exclude environmental damage (acid rain)
Most waterspots are slightly etched into the paint. They must be removed mechanically (polish) and the area protected from future damage.
Most dealerships can't detail a car to save their life. The high school dropout they have detailing the cars can't spend the time (about 8 hours) to properly detail each car. He also doesn't even know how to do it right. Body shops can't detail either.
The paint on plastic bits has additives to keep the paint flexible. These additives give those parts a slightly different finish and shade.
Find a good detailer and get your whole car done. You'll be amazed at the results. You may want to get some tips here http://www.detailedimage.com/Auto-Detailing-Guide/
The dealer cannot do it correctly. Their solution will be to send it to their body shop that will sand off the top layer of clearcoat and pour some glaze on. I'll look fine for a while.
On a more critical note - the best products cannot work properly if the surface isn't properly prepared. Please learn how to properly prepare the surface before slathering wax on it. Your wallet will thank you at trade in time.
10-03-2011, 11:07 AM
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2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Was the car ordered from the factory by you or did it come off the dealer's lot?
I bought an E320 once that had been sitting on the lot for quite a while. I could never could get it clean. Now I order fresh cars from the factory.
I bought an E320 once that had been sitting on the lot for quite a while. I could never could get it clean. Now I order fresh cars from the factory.
10-03-2011, 12:37 PM
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Current: 2011 W212 Previous: 2008 W211 2006 550 2001 Rover 1997 W210
Most dealerships can't detail a car to save their life. The high school dropout they have detailing the cars can't spend the time (about 8 hours) to properly detail each car. He also doesn't even know how to do it right. Body shops can't detail either.
The paint on plastic bits has additives to keep the paint flexible. These additives give those parts a slightly different finish and shade.
Find a good detailer and get your whole car done. You'll be amazed at the results. You may want to get some tips here http://www.detailedimage.com/Auto-Detailing-Guide/
The dealer cannot do it correctly. Their solution will be to send it to their body shop that will sand off the top layer of clearcoat and pour some glaze on. I'll look fine for a while.
On a more critical note - the best products cannot work properly if the surface isn't properly prepared. Please learn how to properly prepare the surface before slathering wax on it. Your wallet will thank you at trade in time.
The paint on plastic bits has additives to keep the paint flexible. These additives give those parts a slightly different finish and shade.
Find a good detailer and get your whole car done. You'll be amazed at the results. You may want to get some tips here http://www.detailedimage.com/Auto-Detailing-Guide/
The dealer cannot do it correctly. Their solution will be to send it to their body shop that will sand off the top layer of clearcoat and pour some glaze on. I'll look fine for a while.
On a more critical note - the best products cannot work properly if the surface isn't properly prepared. Please learn how to properly prepare the surface before slathering wax on it. Your wallet will thank you at trade in time.
First thing I always do when I buy a car is take it to the best detailing shop in town and pay extra for that extra detailing which includes clay bar, polish, wax and sealer. The detail probably includes more and not in that particular order, but then again I let them detail as they are the pros. I always ask them to put on extra coats and pay for the extra service on the first job.
Then after that, just get the regular hand wax job every 6 months to a year.
Take your car to a good detailer. The problem doesn't look that bad and any good detailer should be able to get it back to new.
Not sure about the rust. You definitely need to get the dealer involved when it comes to rust.
Last edited by EmE247; 10-03-2011 at 12:42 PM.
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10-03-2011, 01:39 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Pretty sure when you bought your car, it did not have all those water spots. Pretty sure if you didn't notice them when you got your car, the dealership would have noticed it and corrected/cleaned it before giving the car to you.
First thing I always do when I buy a car is take it to the best detailing shop in town and pay extra for that extra detailing which includes clay bar, polish, wax and sealer. The detail probably includes more and not in that particular order, but then again I let them detail as they are the pros. I always ask them to put on extra coats and pay for the extra service on the first job.
Then after that, just get the regular hand wax job every 6 months to a year.
Take your car to a good detailer. The problem doesn't look that bad and any good detailer should be able to get it back to new.
Not sure about the rust. You definitely need to get the dealer involved when it comes to rust.
First thing I always do when I buy a car is take it to the best detailing shop in town and pay extra for that extra detailing which includes clay bar, polish, wax and sealer. The detail probably includes more and not in that particular order, but then again I let them detail as they are the pros. I always ask them to put on extra coats and pay for the extra service on the first job.
Then after that, just get the regular hand wax job every 6 months to a year.
Take your car to a good detailer. The problem doesn't look that bad and any good detailer should be able to get it back to new.
Not sure about the rust. You definitely need to get the dealer involved when it comes to rust.
Rail dust are tiny bits or iron that stick to the surface of paint during transit. Because they are iron, they tend to rust but they can easily be removed with a clay bar leaving no damage.
I cannot reiterate enough how a dealer is completely unsuited to resolve either problem - even those dealers that have "detailing" programs.
Here are a few examples:
http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-P...art-to-finish/
Dealers and bodyshops will stop after the second picture and toss on some glaze, but the follow-on pictures above clearly show that the surface isn't properly prepped yet.
http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-P...ensive-detail/
Here you'll have noted the 18 hours to detail the car.
http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-P...-benz-sls-amg/
http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-P...es-benz-sl500/
These last two show a new car can look better and a 3 year old car can look spectacular.
Last edited by CEB; 10-03-2011 at 01:42 PM.
10-03-2011, 10:38 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
I posted your request on the BMW forum. Check there periodically and let me know if you don't get any joy.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...0#post10541460
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...0#post10541460
10-04-2011, 02:02 AM
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Pretty sure when you bought your car, it did not have all those water spots. Pretty sure if you didn't notice them when you got your car, the dealership would have noticed it and corrected/cleaned it before giving the car to you.
First thing I always do when I buy a car is take it to the best detailing shop in town and pay extra for that extra detailing which includes clay bar, polish, wax and sealer. The detail probably includes more and not in that particular order, but then again I let them detail as they are the pros. I always ask them to put on extra coats and pay for the extra service on the first job.
Then after that, just get the regular hand wax job every 6 months to a year.
Take your car to a good detailer. The problem doesn't look that bad and any good detailer should be able to get it back to new.
Not sure about the rust. You definitely need to get the dealer involved when it comes to rust.
First thing I always do when I buy a car is take it to the best detailing shop in town and pay extra for that extra detailing which includes clay bar, polish, wax and sealer. The detail probably includes more and not in that particular order, but then again I let them detail as they are the pros. I always ask them to put on extra coats and pay for the extra service on the first job.
Then after that, just get the regular hand wax job every 6 months to a year.
Take your car to a good detailer. The problem doesn't look that bad and any good detailer should be able to get it back to new.
Not sure about the rust. You definitely need to get the dealer involved when it comes to rust.
10-04-2011, 06:52 AM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
You can always post at http://www.autopia.org/find-professi...iler/index.php for detailer recommendations.
10-04-2011, 01:11 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Yelp and sites like that can be problematic with searches like these.
Since the average consumer has no idea what a good detail is, they'll go ahead and recommend places that are marginal at best.
I've had friends show of their newly detailed cars to me and I cringe at what was done to their poor cars. It looks fine for a short while but quickly reverts back to where it was - or worse.
The sad thing is that for the same amount of money they could have had a proper detail.
I drove by a "yellowbook approved" detailing shop a few days ago and saw a worker using one of those cheap Walmart buffers (with the two handles) "buffing" a car. His pad? A folded up terry towel between whatever pad was on the buffer and the paint. You could practically see holograms forming.
Once a car is properly detailed it takes very little to maintain it. Buy a big bottle of ONR (Optimum No Rinse) Put a bit in a bucket of water and use a clean wash mitt to clean off the car. A half hour later and you're ready to go - rain or shine, summer or winter.
I have a spot in my parking garage at work next to a drain. I keep the bucket in the trunk and it literally takes me 10 minutes every day to keep a pristine car no matter what the weather - wearing a suit.
Twice a year it gets detailed.
Since the average consumer has no idea what a good detail is, they'll go ahead and recommend places that are marginal at best.
I've had friends show of their newly detailed cars to me and I cringe at what was done to their poor cars. It looks fine for a short while but quickly reverts back to where it was - or worse.
The sad thing is that for the same amount of money they could have had a proper detail.
I drove by a "yellowbook approved" detailing shop a few days ago and saw a worker using one of those cheap Walmart buffers (with the two handles) "buffing" a car. His pad? A folded up terry towel between whatever pad was on the buffer and the paint. You could practically see holograms forming.
Once a car is properly detailed it takes very little to maintain it. Buy a big bottle of ONR (Optimum No Rinse) Put a bit in a bucket of water and use a clean wash mitt to clean off the car. A half hour later and you're ready to go - rain or shine, summer or winter.
I have a spot in my parking garage at work next to a drain. I keep the bucket in the trunk and it literally takes me 10 minutes every day to keep a pristine car no matter what the weather - wearing a suit.
Twice a year it gets detailed.
10-04-2011, 07:24 PM
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Took the car to the dealer today and let them polish it. I know they can't do a great job at all, but it's a leased car so the car won't be mine anyways in 2 years. They gave it back to me with the water spots gone, but swirls, TONS of them. I said take it back. They used a purple glaze with a DeWalt buffer that went really slow...Anyways, the glaze covered up the scratches...
10-04-2011, 09:27 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Took the car to the dealer today and let them polish it. I know they can't do a great job at all, but it's a leased car so the car won't be mine anyways in 2 years. They gave it back to me with the water spots gone, but swirls, TONS of them. I said take it back. They used a purple glaze with a DeWalt buffer that went really slow...Anyways, the glaze covered up the scratches...
Make sure that you keep the receipt from today's service so you have proof when they try to stick it to you at lease turn in.
10-04-2011, 10:26 PM
#17
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Thanks CEB for your replies. I just don't want to shell out money on a detail for a car that I will only own for 2 years...
I don't think they can stick me with swirls, especially on a black car...oh yeah, they didn't give me a receipt or anything...
I don't think they can stick me with swirls, especially on a black car...oh yeah, they didn't give me a receipt or anything...
10-05-2011, 01:29 PM
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Current: 2011 W212 Previous: 2008 W211 2006 550 2001 Rover 1997 W210
Took the car to the dealer today and let them polish it. I know they can't do a great job at all, but it's a leased car so the car won't be mine anyways in 2 years. They gave it back to me with the water spots gone, but swirls, TONS of them. I said take it back. They used a purple glaze with a DeWalt buffer that went really slow...Anyways, the glaze covered up the scratches...
You will own the car for 2 years and it wasn't worth the time and under $150.00 cost for a professional detail to get your paint perfect minus all of the aggravation it seems you had to deal with with the dealership?
And now when somebody buys your car when the lease is up has to deal with an even worse problem? Would suck to be that guy...
10-05-2011, 03:36 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Not sure why you didn't take the advice given to you in this post...
You will own the car for 2 years and it wasn't worth the time and under $150.00 cost for a professional detail to get your paint perfect minus all of the aggravation it seems you had to deal with with the dealership?
And now when somebody buys your car when the lease is up has to deal with an even worse problem? Would suck to be that guy...
You will own the car for 2 years and it wasn't worth the time and under $150.00 cost for a professional detail to get your paint perfect minus all of the aggravation it seems you had to deal with with the dealership?
And now when somebody buys your car when the lease is up has to deal with an even worse problem? Would suck to be that guy...
BMW partially resolved the problem by including maintenance so that the new owners would at least have a shot at getting a car that had been maintained properly.
10-05-2011, 04:21 PM
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2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
The OP was given plenty of good advice here. Why he chose not to heed it is beyond me. Apparently, once he learned that his issue was not the result of "horrible quality paint" he seemed to be ok. Probably runs his car through automatic car washes. In any event, This would be an easy issue to resolve if buying used by simply having it detailed. It always amazes me when someone posts an issue due to some "MB quality problem" as though it is an important issue to them. Then, when it is a maintenance issue, they could care less. Always nice to lay your problems elsewhere.
10-05-2011, 07:57 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
The OP was given plenty of good advice here. Why he chose not to heed it is beyond me. Apparently, once he learned that his issue was not the result of "horrible quality paint" he seemed to be ok. Probably runs his car through automatic car washes. In any event, This would be an easy issue to resolve if buying used by simply having it detailed. It always amazes me when someone posts an issue due to some "MB quality problem" as though it is an important issue to them. Then, when it is a maintenance issue, they could care less. Always nice to lay your problems elsewhere.
It costs about $300 for all the tools and a near lifetime supply of polish and wax. It takes two full days a year and an hour every Saturday or Sunday to keep your car looking good.
If you don't want the upfront investment, you can spend $200 twice a year to get it done and just rinse it off once a week.
10-05-2011, 08:52 PM
#23
I posted your request on the BMW forum. Check there periodically and let me know if you don't get any joy.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...0#post10541460
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...0#post10541460
10-05-2011, 09:37 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Apparently there is a guy with username Brenster that lives in my area that does great work but I have no way to reach him because he doesn't have an email address and I am not a member of the BMW forum in order to allow me to PM him. Can you help me out and get me an email address for him?? Thanks!
10-06-2011, 12:13 AM
#25
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Thanks for the replies...I just wanted to know if anyone had good experience with the dealer when it came to repairing paint...not a cost analysis of a detail versus buying supplies or commentary on how I wash my cars.
I run all my cars through normal car washes at one point or another...they're just cars...which reminds me my S hasn't been washed in a couple of months. Honestly, who has the time to detail 3 cars every year by hand? I work too much. Cars are not investments, so why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on details when I can buy a 10 dollar shampoo, 30 dollar towels, and 100 dollars worth of polish a year? The car is leased, so I could care less about the second owner. Thanks for the detail suggestions, but I don't know if I can bring myself to spend money on a rented car from the dealer...It's like renting a car from Enterprise and washing it before you return it! The dealer will probably put glaze on it
and the second buyer would never know!
Note: So far, I have washed my E class 3 times just THIS WEEK by myself (rain in L.A.) with Meguiars Gold Class, Zaino, Sonax Wheel Cleaner, and the cotton towels sold by Zaino. So far, I know I'm taking care of my paint.
EVERY Black car has swirls, we can't deny that.
I'm not going to lie, I still think that Mercedes-Benz paint is very easy to scratch. I noticed it on my S class, my 3 GL's, and now my E. When I took my E to the dealer to show them the water spots, they said they would polish it for free but couldn't do anything more. They showed me the dealer paint guide. The bumpers have the lowest quality paint are allowed to have flaws "as long as the new vehicle looks presentable." Don't think that MB uses the best paint. The best paint is used on the hood (except for the region in the middle near the windshield), the doors, and the top of the trunk lid. Quality 2 paint is found on the front bumper, the side mirrors, and around the pillars. Quality 3 paint is near the tail lights and on the rear bumper, side skirts, and undersides of the vehicle. I guess it would make sense then to say that MB uses lower quality paint...
At the end of the day, I remember that all I see is the interior anyways when I drive it. I got pissed when I saw that there were waterspots, but I learned to let go, at least for now.
By the way, how can you get a high quality detail for only $150? It costs at least $500 for a quality detail and paint correction based on what I've researched. Then again, I've never had my cars detailed.
I run all my cars through normal car washes at one point or another...they're just cars...which reminds me my S hasn't been washed in a couple of months. Honestly, who has the time to detail 3 cars every year by hand? I work too much. Cars are not investments, so why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on details when I can buy a 10 dollar shampoo, 30 dollar towels, and 100 dollars worth of polish a year? The car is leased, so I could care less about the second owner. Thanks for the detail suggestions, but I don't know if I can bring myself to spend money on a rented car from the dealer...It's like renting a car from Enterprise and washing it before you return it! The dealer will probably put glaze on it
and the second buyer would never know!Note: So far, I have washed my E class 3 times just THIS WEEK by myself (rain in L.A.) with Meguiars Gold Class, Zaino, Sonax Wheel Cleaner, and the cotton towels sold by Zaino. So far, I know I'm taking care of my paint.
EVERY Black car has swirls, we can't deny that.
I'm not going to lie, I still think that Mercedes-Benz paint is very easy to scratch. I noticed it on my S class, my 3 GL's, and now my E. When I took my E to the dealer to show them the water spots, they said they would polish it for free but couldn't do anything more. They showed me the dealer paint guide. The bumpers have the lowest quality paint are allowed to have flaws "as long as the new vehicle looks presentable." Don't think that MB uses the best paint. The best paint is used on the hood (except for the region in the middle near the windshield), the doors, and the top of the trunk lid. Quality 2 paint is found on the front bumper, the side mirrors, and around the pillars. Quality 3 paint is near the tail lights and on the rear bumper, side skirts, and undersides of the vehicle. I guess it would make sense then to say that MB uses lower quality paint...
At the end of the day, I remember that all I see is the interior anyways when I drive it. I got pissed when I saw that there were waterspots, but I learned to let go, at least for now.
By the way, how can you get a high quality detail for only $150? It costs at least $500 for a quality detail and paint correction based on what I've researched. Then again, I've never had my cars detailed.
