My First Winter Experience
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
My First Winter Experience
Yesterday,a miserable,nasty,snowy day in my area,was the first Winter experience I've ever had with a Mercedes.All I can say is HORRIBLE!
Horrible for at least three (and possibly four) reasons...1)RWD....2)All Season tires X 4....3)the refusal of several safety features to function....4)all that torque
The traction (in wet,heavy type snow) was miserable.I got stuck several times and was slipping and sliding in spite of having kept my speeds way down.Yes,I know...4Matic would have helped and snow tires would have helped as well.Also,my knowing how to disable traction control (which I read up on after getting home) would have helped too.But my BMW had torque,had all season tires and lacked AWD and wasn't *nearly* as bad in the two (plus) winters I had it.
As far as the safety features...Distronic and Pre Safe braking were big selling points for me.I went out of my way to find a Bluetec that had it (there weren't many,it seemed).And yet,as I'm driving (in the snow and slop) I get,in rapid succession,several notices on the instrument cluster...."Pre Safe Braking Not Available,See Owners Manual"...."Active Lane Assist Not Available,See Owners Manual"..."Distronic Plus Not Available,See Owners Manual".I understand that all this was probably due to various sensors being caked with snow/ice/slop but it still annoyed me no end.I wonder if failures of this sort are the result of poor design.
I guess this is just venting but...there it is!
Horrible for at least three (and possibly four) reasons...1)RWD....2)All Season tires X 4....3)the refusal of several safety features to function....4)all that torque
The traction (in wet,heavy type snow) was miserable.I got stuck several times and was slipping and sliding in spite of having kept my speeds way down.Yes,I know...4Matic would have helped and snow tires would have helped as well.Also,my knowing how to disable traction control (which I read up on after getting home) would have helped too.But my BMW had torque,had all season tires and lacked AWD and wasn't *nearly* as bad in the two (plus) winters I had it.
As far as the safety features...Distronic and Pre Safe braking were big selling points for me.I went out of my way to find a Bluetec that had it (there weren't many,it seemed).And yet,as I'm driving (in the snow and slop) I get,in rapid succession,several notices on the instrument cluster...."Pre Safe Braking Not Available,See Owners Manual"...."Active Lane Assist Not Available,See Owners Manual"..."Distronic Plus Not Available,See Owners Manual".I understand that all this was probably due to various sensors being caked with snow/ice/slop but it still annoyed me no end.I wonder if failures of this sort are the result of poor design.
I guess this is just venting but...there it is!
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From: Canada
E350 4Matic 2011
Perhaps the difference between your BMW experience and the Benz is in the type of all season tires you had on the cars.
In any case, do yourself a favour and get proper winter tires. It still won't be great but that is what you get with RWD. (I will be on Nokian Hakka R's but mine is a 4Matic
)
I guess you wanted to disable traction control so that you could rock the car out of a jam?
In any case, do yourself a favour and get proper winter tires. It still won't be great but that is what you get with RWD. (I will be on Nokian Hakka R's but mine is a 4Matic
)I guess you wanted to disable traction control so that you could rock the car out of a jam?
Last edited by telemakhos; Oct 31, 2011 at 10:36 PM.
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Mercedes e350 BlueTec
All season tires are not what they are named...or maybe they are...they are barely adequate in all 4 seasons. Put four GOOD snow tires on the car and you will find you have a very different car. Not only do snow tires have a more aggressive tread for snow, they are built from rubber that stays soft in the cold for better grip.
I drove a miata and a bmw 3 (2wd) thru five connecticut winters (both are notoriously bad in the snow/ice) and I had no problem because I had 4 blizzak tires that would give me traction thru anything. The only problem was if the snow was higher than the clearance on the miata.
I drove a miata and a bmw 3 (2wd) thru five connecticut winters (both are notoriously bad in the snow/ice) and I had no problem because I had 4 blizzak tires that would give me traction thru anything. The only problem was if the snow was higher than the clearance on the miata.
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
You got it.That was a big part of my frustration.I suppose if I had read the flippin' manual......
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From: Cary, NC
2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
I went through last season on my E550 and experienced some of what you have posted. The Distronic Plus sensor is on the front grill where heavy snow/slush will cause it to shutdown due to the shield being blocked. MB could heat the shield to mitigate the issue in my opinion. The camera for the ActiveLane is in the center of the windshield which gets a bit blocked as well. I've had warnings during the summer when driving in a heavy mist!
My tires are Michelin Primacy MXM4 which did quite well in the snow in NC, but had issues when I negotiated my steep driveway. I used the paddles to keep things in at least D3.
My tires are Michelin Primacy MXM4 which did quite well in the snow in NC, but had issues when I negotiated my steep driveway. I used the paddles to keep things in at least D3.
Last edited by HBerman; Oct 30, 2011 at 07:59 PM.
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
listerone. The run-flat Bridgestones are just horrible in the snow, and not much better in the wet either. different tires will make a huge difference. Last winter I found my Blutec could struggle to get rolling, but once going life was limited only but the crap Bridgestones.
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2004 E320 4matic, 12' 300, 95' Deville(RIP)
I went through last season on my E550 and experienced some of what you have posted. The Distronic Plus sensor is on the front grill where heavy snow/slush will cause it to shutdown due to the shield being blocked. MB could heat the shield to mitigate the issue in my opinion. The camera for the ActiveLane is in the center of the windshield which gets a bit blocked as well. I've had warnings during the summer when driving in a heavy mist!
My tires are Michelin Primacy MXM4 which did quite well in the snow in NC, but had issues when I negotiated my steep driveway. I used the paddles to keep things in at least D3.
My tires are Michelin Primacy MXM4 which did quite well in the snow in NC, but had issues when I negotiated my steep driveway. I used the paddles to keep things in at least D3.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Canada
E350 4Matic 2011
That could well be part of it.Continental on the BMW...Bridgestone of the Benz.Although buying snow tires would very probably help and would be a logical move I've had a philosophical opposition to them for years.I've been driving in this winter wonderland for 40 years without them and have never had a serious problem...until yesterday.Oh well....
You got it.That was a big part of my frustration.I suppose if I had read the flippin' manual......
You got it.That was a big part of my frustration.I suppose if I had read the flippin' manual......
I'm the opposite. I *never* drive in the winter without four winter tires. Yes, you can get by with all-seasons (which as another poster pointed out are not really made for snow), but your safety margin and driveability will increase quite nicely on winter tires. If you put winter tires on I will be interested to hear your experience with them.
As one data point, the province of Quebec mandated that drivers must be on winter tires between December and March. The govt stats show that drivers on all seasons are much more likely to be involved in accidents. See
http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/pag..._hiver#purpose
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Tesla Model S P100D
Since you say that safety is so important for you and that being the reason you got Distronic and such, living in Connecticut, you should have really opted for a car with 4MATIC (as a safety feature). MB has done a terrific job with 4MATIC and even on all season tires I was able to go up and down any hill/road I wanted to in some pretty major snow storms. I have a 550 so almost the same amount of torque but the car is rock solid with 4MATIC. Not that this really helps you I suppose but I just wanted to point out that it is up to you to buy the car properly equipped for your driving conditions. I personally would never buy a MB without 4MATIC if I lived anywhere that gets snow.
Also you can't really fault the car for not being able to assist you with lane markings and such as how can it warn you something it can't see with all the snow?
Also you can't really fault the car for not being able to assist you with lane markings and such as how can it warn you something it can't see with all the snow?
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
Unfortunately, MB made the marketing decision to not equip Bluetecs with 4Matic. 4Matic would be the ideal setup for any car with 400 ft-lbs torque. I really wish they would start asking me my opinion before making such lame decisions. On another note. I just had a loaner E with the Primacy Michelins. I can tell you that they are vastly superior to the RFT Bridgestones in noise, wet traction, and snow traction.
listerone. I am going to purchase the TireFit kit that comes with Canadian E Bluetecs without RFT's. It is essentially a 12 volt compressor and a can of "fix-a-flat" goop. I am not going to stick with the RFT, at least until there is a better selection to choose from. I am considering the Continental DWS, as they get very good write-ups on their snow performance but are all season. interestingly, the Tread wear rating on them is 500 I believe Vs. the Bridgesone's 260.
listerone. I am going to purchase the TireFit kit that comes with Canadian E Bluetecs without RFT's. It is essentially a 12 volt compressor and a can of "fix-a-flat" goop. I am not going to stick with the RFT, at least until there is a better selection to choose from. I am considering the Continental DWS, as they get very good write-ups on their snow performance but are all season. interestingly, the Tread wear rating on them is 500 I believe Vs. the Bridgesone's 260.
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From: Toronto
MY17 E43 Matte Selenite/Macchiato Beige, MY16 GLE350d Tenorite/Crystal Grey, MY17 B250
Neither diesel nor 4MATIC (let alone the blissful combination thereof) have been widely demanded by American MB buyers. Canadians have shown a strong preference for both, hence fewer RWD options here and the strong diesel mix ratio (ie: 70/30 diesel on ML in Canada vs 30/70 for USA). If you guys would push harder...!
Last edited by YYZ-E55; Nov 1, 2011 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Clarifying engine
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
There's only one problem with your otherwise logical observation....I'm a diesel fanatic and will never again drive anything else.So my choices (given my budget) were limited.Life,I've found,is just a long series of compromises.
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
Actually, the 3.0 liter diesel W212 is available in Germany with 4Matic. Just go to their web site and configure one. It was a marketing decision to not certify the 4Matic diesels with the EPA. A foolish and short-sided move for MB. Why worry about 50 state clean diesel if you do not offer drive trains suitable for all 50 states? Marketing screwed the pooch here.
listerone...I am with you 100% on the diesel preference. I just love them. I read somewhere that Audi may offer a V6 diesel in the new A6 with Quattro. I hope MB doesn't force me over to the Audi next time out. Diesel and AWD...what a perfect combination. My Bluetec will light up the tires and activate the traction control on dry pavement...even starting in second gear. I wish there was a winter override that would let you start the diesels off in 4th or 5th gear. probably still spin the tires with all that torque.
listerone...I am with you 100% on the diesel preference. I just love them. I read somewhere that Audi may offer a V6 diesel in the new A6 with Quattro. I hope MB doesn't force me over to the Audi next time out. Diesel and AWD...what a perfect combination. My Bluetec will light up the tires and activate the traction control on dry pavement...even starting in second gear. I wish there was a winter override that would let you start the diesels off in 4th or 5th gear. probably still spin the tires with all that torque.
Last edited by ImInPA; Nov 1, 2011 at 12:14 PM.
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From: ChiTown
06 Carrera4
OP, as everyone here has already stated, you might not be correct in your comparison, and really can not blame the car. You cannot wear rollerblades and skate on ice.
Its all about being properly prepared for the season. and it appears that you were not.
A set of good winter tires and 90% of your troubles disappear. My wife has a BMW with all seasons and i will not drive that car in snow if my life depended on it. I've had last 5 of my cars (4 of them Benz) in RWD and no problems in winter because i always have winter tires.
Your complaints are like the 99% of people out there that expect to get a car and drive it mindlessly. Some of these vehicles are sold with summer performance tires. I would love to hear what you would have said then.
My C230K had summer performance and it snowed in April. Guess how well that car drove....
Its all about being properly prepared for the season. and it appears that you were not.
A set of good winter tires and 90% of your troubles disappear. My wife has a BMW with all seasons and i will not drive that car in snow if my life depended on it. I've had last 5 of my cars (4 of them Benz) in RWD and no problems in winter because i always have winter tires.
Your complaints are like the 99% of people out there that expect to get a car and drive it mindlessly. Some of these vehicles are sold with summer performance tires. I would love to hear what you would have said then.
My C230K had summer performance and it snowed in April. Guess how well that car drove....
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From: Canada
W213, C238
It was not a marketing decision (why does everyone attribute every negative to "marketing", anyway?). The powertrain configuration required for 4MATIC does not fit in the 212 architecture in conjunction with the BlueTEC 3.0L diesel.
Neither diesel nor 4MATIC (let alone the blissful combination thereof) have been widely demanded by American MB buyers. Canadians have shown a strong preference for both, hence fewer RWD options here and the strong diesel mix ratio (ie: 70/30 diesel on ML in Canada vs 30/70 for USA). If you guys would push harder...!
Neither diesel nor 4MATIC (let alone the blissful combination thereof) have been widely demanded by American MB buyers. Canadians have shown a strong preference for both, hence fewer RWD options here and the strong diesel mix ratio (ie: 70/30 diesel on ML in Canada vs 30/70 for USA). If you guys would push harder...!
The Mercedes Germany website shows diesel 4Matics, but the Bluetec diesel is RWD only, IIRC.
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Last edited by aeggroup; Nov 1, 2011 at 08:31 PM.
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
Do not waste your money on MB TireFit kit, which is way overpriced. I just changed RFT's on my GL to regular tires and bought this TireFit kit, which cost $70 and does the same thing and more :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400247804177...ht_1702wt_1110
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400247804177...ht_1702wt_1110
The 3.0L diesel is available with 4Matic in Germany. There is no packaging issue in having 4Matic and this engine. It is simply a decision based on volume and the additional cost of certifying the drivetrain with the EPA. I have my fingers crossed that the new 240hp Bluetec found in the new ML and S class will be offered with 4Matic in the E.
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From: Olathe, KS
2011 E-350, 2010 GL-450
I purposely did NOT want a 4matic. I have an SUV for crap weather and would not drive my prized possesion or my other prize (my Corvette) in snow or ice.
That being said, I would not expect my car do do well in the snow, real wheel, big cars generally don't. I had a 2000 BMW 323i and it was the worst car I ever owned in the snow. AND, I also had a 2007 Hummer H3 that was (not suprisingly) the BEST vehicle I ever had in the snow.
I have a GMC Acadia with AWD that comes out when the weather turns bad. The two babies, the MB and the Vette, keep safely in the garages....
That being said, I would not expect my car do do well in the snow, real wheel, big cars generally don't. I had a 2000 BMW 323i and it was the worst car I ever owned in the snow. AND, I also had a 2007 Hummer H3 that was (not suprisingly) the BEST vehicle I ever had in the snow.
I have a GMC Acadia with AWD that comes out when the weather turns bad. The two babies, the MB and the Vette, keep safely in the garages....
