ImInPA

Well, most of you know I am pretty fond of my E350 Bluetec. The run flat tires were not too bad for the first 15K miles or so, but have become very loud at 25K miles. Last year, when new, I discovered that the Bridgestone Turanza's also suck in snow. Not useless, but, not good either. This season, I ordered a set of Michelin X-Ice Xi2 snow ties in the factory 17 inch size (245/45R17). I had them mounted on a set of Elbrus IO6 rimes (split 5 spoke similar to stock but with their ice finish). Mounted, road force balanced, TPMS Sensors, and delivered, $1,526. Looks pretty good, but, the big story is the ride. The ride has always been good with my Luxury E350 Bluetec. These snow tires are so much quieter and smoother than the Runflats, that they have exceeded my expectations by a long shot. The ride has seems to have escalated my E to a much higher level than stock. The Bridgestones, still on the factory rims, have over 50% tread life left, however, I have notices that many of the sipes are no where near the tread depth. This no doubt has contributed to the excessive noise that they ow generate. What a truly crappie design. Base on this experience, I am going to just throw the Bridgestones away and have good summer/rain touring tires mounted on the factory rims for spring time.

I cannot believe how much of a difference the new snow tires (which aren't exactly know for quiet ride themselves) have made the ride of my E so much more enjoyable. To all of my fellow E owners with RunFlats, don't wait to scrap the bridgestones. The Bridgestones are hiding half of the vehicle you purchased. Shame on MB for using these tires. I bought a simple "slime compressor" kit (similar to the MB TireFit kit) to support the non-runflats I have now. This is what MB does for Canadian Bluetecs that do not have the run flat tires. I am very satisfied with the results. Now, I hope the snow tires make a difference in the snow. I am pretty sure they will as they X-Ice Xi2's reate just below the Nokian Hakkapilita R's for overall performance.

Peace.

telemakhos

Those snows will surely make a difference in winter! I'm itching to try my Hakka R's out on my 4Matic after many years on my old RWD E320

BTW I searched for the Elbrus IO6 wheels that you mention - very nice! Do they have the same 48mm offset as the OEM rims?

CEB

Wait til the bad weather starts.

ImInPA

According to Tire Rack they are direct replacements as far as offset etc. for only $122 ea. I was not expecting too much, but, I have to say I am very please with the appearance, and, actually prefer the finish to the stock wheels with my black E. The bridgestones were only marginally better than performance summer tires when the snow fell last year. With 25K on them, I was pretty certain they would have been far worse this year. I love the Hakka Rs. I could not find anyone that would sell a wheel/tire package with TPMS, etc. with the Hakkas. I found several reviews that have the Michelin X-Ice Xi2's on par or a tad below the Hakka's. With only RWD, snow tires will certainly make a difference. I have read many reviews where folks just use the X-Ice as a year round tire just for the ride and grip. I was skeptical, but, but these things just enhance the luxury ride of the E.

ttoE550

You might want to do research before using the snow tires year round in PA. When thet get hot, they get very soft, which makes them wear very quickly and possibly overheat. I've driven on snow tires on a day with a surprise 70 degree temperature spike, and it's like driving on jello.

CEB

+1 You'll overheat the tires and they'll wear out in no time.

ImInPA

It was 40 here yesterday when i installed them. Today it almost hit 70, go figure. These tires are great. I have no intention of using them year round. I am planning on finding a nice summer/wet touring tire to mount on my OEM rims for spring. Thanks for the tip anyhow, it is good advice. I am so shocked at the difference in ride, noise, bump isolation, and grip over the stock bridgestone run flat tires it is just incredible. Almost like getting a new car ride all over again. To my fellow US Bluetec owners, run, don't walk to a tire center and get rid of those run flats. You won't believe the difference.

CEB

There are two things to take into consideration before you ditch runflats:

First, what will you do in case of a flat; and

Second, did MB (like BMW) tweak the suspension of those cars designed to be sold with runflat tires for that application? If so, what handling (or warranty) issues might you run into with non-runflat tires.

I just thought of a third issue - for those that lease. BMW requires runflats on the car upon lease return. I suspect that MB does the same. If so, you may want to remove the runflats before they get to the "lease turn in minimum" and store them until you get ready to return the car.

ImInPA

MB includes a tire repair kit and compressor for Canadian Bluetecs, which do not have Run Flats. I have purchased the same kit for my car. My dealer (they have MB, BMW, and Audi) tells me that many replace the Run Flats with regular tires. There is no damage or warranty issues at all. Also, there is road side assistance. I am not that concerned about being stranded. Run Flats cost approx $100 more per tire than their counterparts. They have less longevity. Virtually no tire store will have your size/brand in stock. If you drive more than a few miles on them, you will have to replace them anyhow, as no shop will risk the liablility of repairing them. They are a great idea, poorly executed, and have far more downsides that pluses. The best reason I can thing of using them is if you have low profile tires on larger rims, the Run Flat structure will give you better protection from potholes and rim damage.

aeggroup

I hate Run Flats. I changed them on my previous X5 and just recently changed them on GL BlueTec. No any minute of regret. No issues with dealer's service or warranty either on X5 or GL. TireFit kit is more than enough solution - especially for 17" rims.

Good Luck.

CEB

Just as an aside - your dealer is wrong about possible warranty issues for BMW.

BMW has gone on record to say that the use of non run flat tires may cause warranty issues and some dealers even have signs posted to that effect. That said, many people replace the run flats with normal tires and have had no issues. It is very dealer and problem specific. BMW contends that the suspension has been tuned to take RFTs into consideration and replacing them may cause suspension issues not covered under warranty.

Once driven without air, a RFT is toast - regardless of the distance driven. While you certainly can repair a RFT the same way you repair a normal tires, most dealers will refuse to repair even a slow leak based on liability (like you said.) The issue is simple. The dealer cannot determine by a visual inspection if the sidewall on a RFT is damaged so they just refuse to repair it.

So when can you safely repair a RFT? RFTs can be repaired under the same guidelines as a normal tire (ie, hole in the tread portion only, not near the sidewall) if - and only if - you can be absolutely, positively sure that the tire has not been driven on with extremely low pressure.

If you get a low pressure warning on your TPMS, check the pressure and find it to be low (say 25psi.) You add air to the proper amount and then go to get your tire checked. The tire place checks your tire, finds the pressure at 25 again, removes the nail and plugs it properly then all is well.

If, OTOH, you got in your car one morning, saw the warning on your TPMS and drove to a tire shop where they checked the pressure and found it extremely low (say 15 or so) then that tire is toast and should not be repaired as there is a high probablity that the internal structure of that tire has been compromised.

Why RFTs at all? In many cases they will allow you to continue to drive so that you can reach a safe place. Think the flat tire scene in National Lampoon's Vacation or think about a flat on a fairly busy two lane twisty road in the rain. Those are times where you say "screw the $500 for a new tire, I just want to get out alive."

ImInPA

I would have to believe what you say is dealer specific. I would have to read an official BMW statement on what specific warranty issues would be voided through the use of non-runflat tires. I am pretty sure the Mangussen Moss act would protect me from using non-runflat tires as long as the tires I use have the same DOT specifications or higher.

CEB

Intersting question and thanks for allowing me to get on my MM soapbox.

The MM act prohibits a manufacturer from denying warranty service for issues caused when a consumer has replaced an OE product with a substantially similar product from another manufacturer unless they can show that the replacement caused the issue.

The MM act does not prohibit a manufacturer from setting standards, requiring specific maintenance using parts that meet certain specs (fluid types for example) or requiring replacement parts meeting certain specs.

In this case, BMW has spec'd out the car to require RFTs. It is well documented that BMW requires RFTs on lease returns and that is perfectly legal.

Non RFTs do not meet the BMW specs so the MM act does not apply. RFTs are a separate category and non-RFTs will never meet the RFT specs.In a dispute, the manufactures need only show that the car was spec'd for RFTs, the consumer did not use RFT's and make some sort of plausible argument showing that the use of RFTs was mandated.

Is it likely that the use of non RFTs will cause issues? Of course not, but the possibilty exists. My goof-ball BMW dealer refused to do a wheel alignment I was paying for because my winter tires were on aftermarket wheels. He felt unpersuaded when I showed him that the tires were the identical size and the wheels were the same offset and weight of the OE wheels. Another dealer down the street did the alignment without issues and BMWNA had a little talk with my dealer but the bottom line is that it is dealer specific. Each dealer decides (most likely depending on how often they've been burned) how strictly they interpret the rules coming from BMWNA.

BMW (and I suspect other manufacturers as well) frequently requests parts replaced under warranty back from the dealer for inspection. If BMWNA determines that the failure was not one that should have been covered by warranty, then the dealer is charged back. Once burned, dealers seldom give other customers the benefit of the doubt and deny everything that might cause them problems.

Much of this discussion may be acamemic because MB may to have "tuned" the suspension for RFTs and might not care one whit.

CEB

And while we're talking MM act. (you got me cranked up here...)

The MM act doesn't protect squat. Let's assume you have a dispute with the dealer, the manufacturer sides with the dealer but you believe that the MM act applies. What are your options?

The Feds aren't going to come swooping out of the sky to save you. Your only realistic option is to sue the dealer or manufacturer. Meanwhile, you car sits unrepaired at the dealer's or you've fronted the money to pay for the repair. Will the costs of a lawsuit outweigh the return? Will the manufacturer come armed with reams of statistics showing why your use of aftermarket tire valve stem caps caused your electrical system to explode? Will that befuddle the judge used to deal with squabbles between neighbors? Will you really prevail by holding out the MM act as a shield?

All good questions and they may get answered the next time somebody gets me fired up about the MM act.

ImInPA

Keep in mind though, that not all runflats are "similar". For size and specifics are what is defensible. In any event, my dealer has no issue with it, and, MB USA has no issue with me using non-runflat's from a warranty perspective as long as they have the same Speed rating, Load rating, and size. Techincally, I guess BMW would void your warranty for aftermarket rims as well, or changing the size. I am glad my life is not that complicated.

CEB

True. It is unlikely from what limited exposure I've had to modern MBs that MB did anything but say "we have no room for a spare so we'll throw on some runflats. Accordingly, they probably don't care what tires you have on there as long as they are the proper size.

Aftermarket wheels can cause legitimate warranty woes. A wheel with an unusual (for that application) offset can add stresses to the suspension that were unexpected - again, an extreme example but one that can lead(and has led) to suspension problems.

Mtl20v

Thankfully there are no run flats on Canadian E's. Do your cars not have spare tires?

ImInPA

The US Diesels do not have spares.

rovermark

Thank goodness we do not have run-flats - and not having a spare is also not very nice. For winter tires, I installed Michelin Sport Alpin PA3 winter tires on my wagon - I have to wait and see how they perform in snow and ice.

I had the X-ICE (first generation) on an older car - they are excellent tires and perform very well on ice and snow,. At the time, they were better than than the stock All-season tires in comfort and noise.