stemags

Found this while surfin for goodies,,there are many out there and Im wondering what the fellas think

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Mercede...item4aa31b8b39

CEB

Uhhhh, no.

The only thing this does is increase the volume in the seller's wallet and affects your "butt dyno" by thinning your wallet.

stemags

Interesting take,,ever use a chipped benz before?

togaclk55

You should get a legit tune from one of the vendors on MBWorld

CEB

No, but I have lots of experiences with "chips" in general.

A generic tune such as this one cannot produce any legitimate results without any significant downsides. In addition, "chips" for normally aspirated engines are completely incapable of producing measurable results.

A modified ECU can produce credible gains on turbocharged engines but not on NA engines.

Finally, any modifications to ECUs are in violation of the terms of warranty for any manufacturer - accordingly, this device, assuming that it even does anything, may well cause warranty woes.

stemags

Ok Not true,,I had a 93 gold powerchip in my 02 e320,,noticeable HP gains and increased Mileage per .naturally aspirated.Altho Im skeptical about something so cheap performing well,my personal experience with Powerchip was positive to be sure,it cost $900,which over time paid for itself in mileage savings.And it was never detected by the Dealer.
Im still looking for something that would do the trick, thanks for your thoughts.

ngerstman

Have you checked with Kleeman? They are the kings of Mercedes mods. Regards. Ned.

togaclk55

I would go with Eurocharged or OETuning

CEB

That wasn't a generic $90 tune. You can write specific code for a certain octane and change the remapping so that you can get gains that'll fool a butt dyno but it won't make any real differences.

A manufacturer needs to code to allow for variances in octane, altitude and so forth. Aftermarket tuners can sell specific coding but the reality is that you can't squeeze much more out of a NA engine.

You can always fake out the consumer - like the Sprint Booster people - by making the gas pedal feel more aggressive. It feels more powerful but in fact you can get the same result by stepping on the gas harder/faster.

MCF

Agreed. The whole sprintbooster fad faded quickly. They never could answer my question about what happens if the module were to fail.

CEB

Let's face it, if it were possible to get extra horsepower without any downsides, then the manufacturer would do it. They've got to write the software anyway so it costs them nothing extra to write in a few more horses - unless there are downsides.

Each and every "chip" has downsides. Anyone who believes that a little software company can build a better tune than a manufacturer who spends millions on research is living in a different universe.

At the same time, anyone who believes that a "chip" can be hidden from a properly motivated manufacturer is equally delusional.

Mercedes dealers generally don't have the motivation to look for "chips" because this market segment isn't so into tuning their cars like BMW or VW, but if there issue commonly associated with modified ECUs then the dealer or manufacturer may well check.

stemags

CEB,,a $900 flash tuning isnt a generic tuning I will concede that,,But I experienced gains and improvements with the Powerchip,,not just a difference in pedal feel or pedal responsiveness,,but I watched my mileage go up,,and the 220 HP that the car had when delivered was increased noticeably. Never took it to a dyno to get an accurate reading,,but the difference was at least 25-30 HP.
And when the manufacturer delivers a NA car it is aimed at the median driver ,,not too fast and not too slow. In effect the engine has alot more potential,,just waiting to be uneashed.
Hey if Powerchip had a product for this chassis/engine I would have gotten it and posted the results,but so far they dont.
And Kleeman has a nice site,but guess what,US customers cant use it,,you have to call them instead.I like to see printed literature to confirm what Im buying so I can confirm or disprove it later.

Stano

30HP gain on a 220hp engine (your E320) is not possible. Thats over a 10% increase in power. No matter how much you tweak the A/F Ratio and Ignition Timing you will never get that kind of HP gains on pump gas. Only way to get that extra HP on software alone would be to have a tune for 100+ Octane gas. Only then would you see a gain of around 25HP

What most likely made you feel like you gained that much HP was the way the power came on. Leaning the A/F on low end plus the increase of timing a few degrees increased the HP a little (10-15hp at most) but it also made the car more responsive/felt faster.

You would honestly need to install a Full Exhaust and get tuned for it to see a 30hp increase on pump gas for that car.
On a car like a E63 it would be reasonable to expect a 25-30hp gain on a pump gas tune.

As far as gas savings it would take almost 50k miles of driving to save $900 worth of gas (cost of the powerchip) assuming 10% fuel saving/Extra 2mpg when averaging 20mpg at a cost of $3.80/Gallon

stemags

I had a Remus sport exhaust,,K n N,,underpulleys Iridium plugs and Im telling you Big time difference. Ah well some people you just cant reach em.

CEB

Let stemags enjoy his imaginary horsepower gains. 'm pleased that he is happy with his mods even though anyone familiar with mods knows that you cannot those kinds of gains from a NA engine.

You can, in theory, add up each of the claimed horsepoer increases by each of the manufacturers of that aftermarket stuff (we all know that k&n hasn't brought increases in 20 years yet they claim 10-20 hp) to come up with that figure, but that isn't the way it works.

I know that each time I make a mod, I figure out ways to justify to myself - even if I know deep down that all I did was waste money.

Let stemags be happy - he deserves to believe that he had appreciable gains after all the monry he spent

stemags

LOL oh momma the sky is falling. Believe this,Im happy with or without your approval,,and all your doing is sticking to a belief that you must have read about ,,thanks for showing your cards pal.

Big50

Wrong, ECU tuning can produce power by advancing timing and adjusting Air fuel ratios. It's not always safe though.
There are tuners out there who can tune better. Not saying all are but there are. There is a downside in that if anything happens to your motor with the tune you are screwed. Owners or the new Mustang 5.0's are learning this the hard way. Some tuners rushed to market with their tunes and ended up leaning out several #8 cylinders which failed. These guys are all out 10g's plus for a new motor. And I guarantee if you have a damaged motor your dealer will be checking for a tune.

I don't understand why people would risk damaging a very expensive motor for a measly 20-30hp. If it were another 100 hp then I can see where the risk reward is.

stemags

Big you're 100% right,,thats why when I chipped the 02 E I used a big reputeable company,,established ,,such as Kleeman..BTW they wrote me and quoted 750$ for a chip they normally sell for 1350.The money is not the issue to me,,its the reliability Im looking for,,and 20-30 HP boost would be nice especially with the gas savings.I realize there is a risk,if its reversible which I would insist on,,then what the heck.

BK63amg

FWIW the C63 ECU tunes (M156) yield huge gains so assuming there is some factory code designed to limit power a la the C63, as ECU tune can make a big difference.

Big50

I'm not familiar with Mercedes(just bought my first last week), but Ford most certainly can tell if there has been a tune on the ECU. Even if it has been flashed back to stock. My gut would tell me if Ford can then Mercedes can. I could be wrong though. If it's from a reputable vendor on a motor that has been out for a while then your probably fine. I wouldn't do it on a new motor line up that hasn't been out for a year or two. Let some time go by to make sure they don't blow up. There is a lot of trial and error that goes into tuning for new motors. This is especially true of the new boosted motors on the 550. I would not chip those unless it came with warranty. When your dealing with boosted motors so much more can go wrong.

Although it has to be so much more tempting with the twin turbo 4.6L. I would think you could pull an easy 100hp out of them by upping the boost.

turbo24

had my 08 Corvette tuned by a top notched tuner, made it a totally different car!

CEB

Thanks for proving my point.

Big50

Yes, there's a downside if you the tuner doesn't know what he is doing. Believe it or not there are people out there who have 20+ years tuning cars and they don't all work for manufacturers.
I used the example of the new mustangs because a lot of tuners were advancing global timing which was leading to the lean condition. However, the tuners who new what they were doing left the global timing alone and only advanced the cam timing. And yes these tunes produced 30-40 whp dyno proven results. This leads back to my point of being cautious of slapping tunes on new motor releases. The reason these tuners got in trouble is they were using the same techniques they were on previous generation motors.

What I'm really blown away by is how expensive tunes are for these cars.

CEB

And how little gains you get from these tunes.

I continue to maintain that you cannot get significant gains from tuning a NA engine without major issues.

Big50

Yes, i guess your right when you look at it like that. I'm used to paying 200-300 for mail order tunes and 500 for custom dyno tuning with an hour of dyno time. Shoot for a mustang you could get a cold air intake, headers, and a tune for just a little over 1300. I can't believe a tune alone can run that much on these cars.