HID's installed
12-15-2011, 09:22 AM
#52
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This is a very subjective topic. Even if they were illegal, it's only because of glare (which i agree, no drivers should be blinded).
Some people believe that all HIDs cause glare and some obviously don't. Bigigg has said multiple times that he wouldn't install them if they blinded other drivers, so he obviously tested them or adjusted them like I have with mine. Illegal or not, his HIDs do not blind people..end of story.
Its sort of like limo tints. They are illegal too, but that dosent stop members on this forum/tint shops from installing them. I myself have tints, however when I see a person with limo tints, I don't badger or persuade them into taking them off.
Some people believe that all HIDs cause glare and some obviously don't. Bigigg has said multiple times that he wouldn't install them if they blinded other drivers, so he obviously tested them or adjusted them like I have with mine. Illegal or not, his HIDs do not blind people..end of story.
Its sort of like limo tints. They are illegal too, but that dosent stop members on this forum/tint shops from installing them. I myself have tints, however when I see a person with limo tints, I don't badger or persuade them into taking them off.
Last edited by alloutmk23; 12-15-2011 at 09:28 AM.
12-15-2011, 10:02 AM
#53
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Bigigg which LED bulbs did you use? Also what did you use for the high beams as I won't put hids in those.I just installed HID's in my car and diference is night and day. Mine are adjusted properly so they don't blind on coming traffic. I read CEBs links. They mostly are talking about the scatter affect you get when hids are put into non projector housings. By the way my hids are 35 watt not the 55 watt option.
12-15-2011, 10:21 AM
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194 wedge bulb by aznoptics 5000k color, i love them.. high beams are stock, no reason for me to change them out. Im also running 35 watt kit.. 55 watt burns hot and chance of melting, no need for it, 35 is plenty.. I'm done talking about CEB, lol.. in my eyes hes useless on this forum.. look at his threads/post.. perfect proof
Last edited by bigigg; 12-15-2011 at 10:23 AM.
12-15-2011, 10:50 AM
#56
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
This is a very subjective topic. Even if they were illegal, it's only because of glare (which i agree, no drivers should be blinded).
Some people believe that all HIDs cause glare and some obviously don't. Bigigg has said multiple times that he wouldn't install them if they blinded other drivers, so he obviously tested them or adjusted them like I have with mine. Illegal or not, his HIDs do not blind people..end of story.
Its sort of like limo tints. They are illegal too, but that dosent stop members on this forum/tint shops from installing them. I myself have tints, however when I see a person with limo tints, I don't badger or persuade them into taking them off.
Some people believe that all HIDs cause glare and some obviously don't. Bigigg has said multiple times that he wouldn't install them if they blinded other drivers, so he obviously tested them or adjusted them like I have with mine. Illegal or not, his HIDs do not blind people..end of story.
Its sort of like limo tints. They are illegal too, but that dosent stop members on this forum/tint shops from installing them. I myself have tints, however when I see a person with limo tints, I don't badger or persuade them into taking them off.
They are clearly illegal. See 19609
An explanation is on page 49600 of the Federal Register / Vol. 66, No. 189
"Another disturbing trend in this lookalike phenomenon is the substitution of OEM filament headlamp bulbs with aftermarket HID conversion bulbs. The desire is to achieve the look and achieve the more robust performance of HIDs. While not designed to be interchangeable, some aftermarket companies are substantially altering the HID bulb bases or providing adapters so that the HID bulbs can be inserted in headlamps designed for filament bulbs.
The consequence of making these substitutions is to adversely affect safety. Filament headlamps are optically designed for the volume of light and filament placement and other critical dimensions and performance that OEM filament bulbs have. The HID conversions result in two to three times the volume of light and potentially imprecise arc placement. Such conversions often result in beam patterns that behave nothing like the
original filament beam pattern, cannot be reliably aimed, and have many times the permitted glare intensity. In informal conversations with persons
who have tested such conversions, the light intensity on one at a point aimed toward oncoming drivers was 22 times the allowable intensity limit. Another lamp was more than 7 times too intense.
With poor HID bulb and arc placement, the glare intensity could be significantly worse. Thus, the use of these conversions could be yet another source of the glare problems about which many drivers have complained."
Even SEMA has talked about the illegal HID conversion kits. From the SEMA website comes this:
Is it legal to sell HID replacement kits?
NHTSA has concluded that it is impossible to produce HID conversion kits (converting a halogen system to HID) that would be compliant with FMVSS No. 108.
Just because a headlighting unit has a projector beam (made for a halogen bulb) does not mean that it is suitable for a replacement HID capsule. The beam patterns for the two lighting sources are completely different requiring a different reflector or projector design. The pictures supplied by the OP clearly show excessive glare. While he may not think they produce glare, he certainly hasn't had them checked. Based on the install, those lamps must produce excessive glare.
While states cannot change or disregard Federal requirements (i.e. they cannot say " HID conversion kits are legal",) they can decide to not enforce that particular requirement during periodic inspection or traffic stops. Many states don't worry about side marker lighting during inspections and the ones that do check (PA comes to mind) then stand out.
I'll let you have the final word. I'm sure we'll be discussing this in another thread.
12-15-2011, 10:56 AM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
This is part of an article where a gentleman states he called his local dmv and state trooper barrack..
"I first called my local state police station and asked to talk to the officer who handles the traffic infractions. I asked him if HID's were illegal in halogen light vehicles. His initial reply was they do pull over drivers with them. I asked why and he stated cause they were blinding. Halogen based vehicles have higher lights cause halogen isn't as bright. Xenon is significantly brighter and in stock housings can be blinding cause they go straight into oncoming traffics eyes. Just find a way to angle it down some. I asked for an actual law stating they were illegal and he put me on hold. He came back to say they is absolutly no law in NY or federally saying they are illegal. You can get pulled over if they are preceived as blinding to the police officer but that's the extent. He went on to say he checked the supreme court rulings and there has never been a case brought up where someone or some group have contested it as a law.Basically in NY and on the federal level it is 100% legal to drive with them in halogen housings. Granted state laws can make aomething illegal that the federal level deems legal(though not vise versa) so check your state athorities. Next i tackled the notion of failing an inspection. I called my mechanic and he told me he has never failed nor knew anyone who failed someone who had aftermarket HID's. To verify i called the DMV to confirm i would pass an inspection. Again both state wide and federally there is no law against it. The only thing that is looked at when getting an inspection is if a vehicle has high beams and low beams. Im posting this for the people who are currently looking to see if its legal or not and may be confused by the people who really don't know what they are talking about or stating false statements they may have read or heard from someone else"
"I first called my local state police station and asked to talk to the officer who handles the traffic infractions. I asked him if HID's were illegal in halogen light vehicles. His initial reply was they do pull over drivers with them. I asked why and he stated cause they were blinding. Halogen based vehicles have higher lights cause halogen isn't as bright. Xenon is significantly brighter and in stock housings can be blinding cause they go straight into oncoming traffics eyes. Just find a way to angle it down some. I asked for an actual law stating they were illegal and he put me on hold. He came back to say they is absolutly no law in NY or federally saying they are illegal. You can get pulled over if they are preceived as blinding to the police officer but that's the extent. He went on to say he checked the supreme court rulings and there has never been a case brought up where someone or some group have contested it as a law.Basically in NY and on the federal level it is 100% legal to drive with them in halogen housings. Granted state laws can make aomething illegal that the federal level deems legal(though not vise versa) so check your state athorities. Next i tackled the notion of failing an inspection. I called my mechanic and he told me he has never failed nor knew anyone who failed someone who had aftermarket HID's. To verify i called the DMV to confirm i would pass an inspection. Again both state wide and federally there is no law against it. The only thing that is looked at when getting an inspection is if a vehicle has high beams and low beams. Im posting this for the people who are currently looking to see if its legal or not and may be confused by the people who really don't know what they are talking about or stating false statements they may have read or heard from someone else"
I'm out of this thread. The forum now understands (if they want to) why these HID conversions are a bad idea. My offer still stands.
Last edited by CEB; 12-15-2011 at 10:58 AM.
12-15-2011, 12:05 PM
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Bigigg,
I agree with you, it is your car and you can do as you please and the HID looks great. I'm sure you had to notice some type of difference. I hear people all the time saying they blind other people. For the record, all hid's are bright and compared to halogen can blind anyone. No matter where they're aimed. Just depends on the driver. I know the cutoff looks like crap when you're next to a wall but who gives a crap about that. How often am I going to be in a parking lot, staring at a wall wondering if my cutoff is correct. NEVER. Good to see you got this installed and it looks great.
I agree with you, it is your car and you can do as you please and the HID looks great. I'm sure you had to notice some type of difference. I hear people all the time saying they blind other people. For the record, all hid's are bright and compared to halogen can blind anyone. No matter where they're aimed. Just depends on the driver. I know the cutoff looks like crap when you're next to a wall but who gives a crap about that. How often am I going to be in a parking lot, staring at a wall wondering if my cutoff is correct. NEVER. Good to see you got this installed and it looks great.
12-15-2011, 08:13 PM
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To Invain15, I completely understand what you mean. My S550 stock bixenons are much more blinding than anything I've done to my E, so to everyone: don't listen to CEB . He obviously doesn't know that bixenons are much more blinding than HID kits.
12-19-2011, 02:42 AM
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i have hid/xenon lights (factory option) in my bmw and now i need them on my non-p2 w212 e550. but i guess it could be a wrong time to ask more questions in this heated thread.
12-19-2011, 07:31 AM
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12-19-2011, 02:00 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Now that you know what the law is and what the downsides are, you can make your own decisions.
12-19-2011, 03:09 PM
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Seeing how these aftermarket lighting threads go, I am not even gonna ask for anyone's opinion on my Disco-era halogen strobe lights I have mounted in my E's stock housings. Makes everone look "stop-action" at intersections. Love them at night time. Nothing like being flipped off under a strobe effect. Now if I could just figure out where to mount my Black Light turn signals.....
12-19-2011, 03:29 PM
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i'm no peacemaker by all means but can we all just move on and make this forum a happy place for people who love their rides? i'm just a newbie here but have been a looooong time member at the other bmw forum. i have finally registered yesterday simply because i like this forum more than the others. i sure hope i did the right thing.
12-19-2011, 06:38 PM
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Feel free to ask. It is very humorous that the people degrading their vision are calling the individual that tells them what the law is and why it degrades their vision a jerk. I guess they would rather be surrounded by Honda Civic drivers that ohh and ahh over every new purple light bulb they've installed - no matter how tacky it is.
Now that you know what the law is and what the downsides are, you can make your own decisions.
Now that you know what the law is and what the downsides are, you can make your own decisions.
12-19-2011, 08:46 PM
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I think HID conversion kits are ok if the cutoff lines are straight and distinct, with little or no glare above the cutoff line.
On a side note....not sure if this is still the case, but years ago, I remember seeing that HID conversion kits usually have a disclaimer of some sort....like "For Off-Road Use Only"....or...."Not For Street Use". Anyone else remember seeing this disclaimer?
On a side note....not sure if this is still the case, but years ago, I remember seeing that HID conversion kits usually have a disclaimer of some sort....like "For Off-Road Use Only"....or...."Not For Street Use". Anyone else remember seeing this disclaimer?
12-19-2011, 09:04 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
There is no question that aftermarket HID kits are illegal. In addition, all of the technical experts throughout the world have recognized that it is impossible to design a HID kit that works properly. This isn't conjecture or fanboi'ism but fact.
12-20-2011, 05:24 AM
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I guess were just a bunch of rebels breaking the law.. wow i feel soo bad @ss! This thread should get deleted, the more i see it the more i get annoyed with CEB.
12-20-2011, 06:27 AM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
I do not care what you do. I just want to make sure that forum members have the facts before they make a mod.
What annoys me is when posters come back with made up personal opinion that they try to pass off as fact. I've said it before, I'll say it again - I've put my money where my mouth is and have offered up a gift card for you to show this forum any study, report or similar document from a reputable organization or Government entity that demonstrates a benefit of putting HID bulbs into housings designed for halogen bulbs.
I can make that offer because such a study does not exist.
Feel free to do what you like - just don't try to convince others that the mod is safe, legal or provides a benefit.
Flame on, because that is the only way you can save face with your peers here on the board using the standard internet bully principles - if you don't have facts to back you up then try to ridicule and intimidate.
12-20-2011, 09:02 AM
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I can care less, and def dont need your gift card offer BS!.. You keep talking this legality crap that no one cares about, thats my point. Your trying soo hard to get the "facts" across but reality is no one cares! Theres hundreds of people getting pulled over for there after market hids as we speak.. NOT! Get over yourself, your convined im trying to "save face" you couldnt be anymore wrong. I have nothing to prove and no one to impress. And you truly need to get a life. Also your not the one sitting in my drivers seat soo what do you know how my visibility is? I can care less about your links that some other jack @ss wrote up..GET A LIFE DUDE! Better yet go buy a w212 before you even respond to another post..
12-20-2011, 09:07 AM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
I can care less, and def dont need your gift card offer BS!.. You keep talking this legality crap that no one cares about, thats my point. Your trying soo hard to get the "facts" across but reality is no one cares! Theres hundreds of people getting pulled over for there after market hids as we speak.. NOT! Get over yourself, your convined im trying to "save face" you couldnt be anymore wrong. I have nothing to prove and no one to impress. And you truly need to get a life. Also your not the one sitting in my drivers seat soo what do you know how my visibility is? I can care less about your links that some other jack @ss wrote up..GET A LIFE DUDE! Better yet go buy a w212 before you even respond to another post..
