hx_guy

Did you happen to look at the specs of the 2005 E320 Diesel? The weight is listed at 4002lbs with 0-60 of 7.1 seconds: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-specs-page-2

The 2012 comes in at 4059lbs according to this link and a 0-60 of 6.7 seconds: http://cars.findthebest.com/q/1152/5...s-E350-BlueTEC

Honestly I don't know why you're boasting so much about a 7 year old E320 and comparing to a new one, it's not that great, I would know, it's the exact MY that I sold prior to buying the 2012.

Green E-300 DT

Sorry you've got a chip on your shoulder, but you are wrong!
And your source is wrong too!
There is no way that a new W-212 Bluetec diesel 3.0L V6 will run 0-60 in
less than 7 seconds, and I doubt that anyone of them will even do that.

Wrong about your weight. Weigh yours and see for yourself.
Your source is incorrect.

As far as performances are concerned, I say bring it around and we will go to
the drags in Irwindale and you will find out just how slow your car really is.
If your new car is so great, why are you getting such poor fuel economy?
Comparing your new car to mine, average fuel economy of only 25 mpg.
Mine is 35.8 mpg and climbing! That is not even close to being the same?

At Irwindale[/U][/I], mine runs 0-72 mph in less than 10 seconds. That is at an 1/8 mile track.
So the quarter mile will be quicker than 15 seconds flat at 90 mph or better.
BTW, CU weighs their vehicles and measures the cars they actually test.
They say for your exact car, 7.9 seconds 0-60 and the quarter mile of 16.2 which is slow in anyones' book.

The original owner of my W-211 2005 CDI told me before he bought the new W-212 that
there is absolutely no comparison between the car he was selling me and the new one.
He said the new ones simply do not run as well and are slower and feel
less powerful than the one he was selling me. His words, not mine!
The original owner of mine told me that his new car is 350 pounds heavier than his old W-211, now mine.
That's not exactly correct if you quote Car and Driver. It is 275 pounds.

So there, you have my take on this subject.

This car is my eleventh MBZ diesel, beginning with my first, a 1961 190 D/b.
While I am not an expert by any stretch, I know what I know and there are many others here who agree with me.

How can you expect your new W-212 which is a new body style that is not only heavier
but wider to run as well as a W-211 (2007-2009) with the exact same V6 motor?
Throw in the AdBlue requirement, the DPF and run-flat tires and, well, never mind.

Think about it!

Good luck to you, and I look forward to reading your Fuelly reports and your comments.



Derrel

hx_guy

My source is Mercedes Benz.

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...specifications

0-60 in 6.7 seconds
Weight: 4059lbs

What is your source? Are you saying Mercedes is lying?

I'm not saying that the W212 isn't heavier, because it is, but only by a couple hundred pounds...though it does have slightly more power, both horsepower and torque which should easily make up that difference.

Mileage wise, have you considered different factors? I drive my the majority of surface streets and a lot of quick trips, from you stats, you drive 77% on the highway, of course that is going to make a difference. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the W212 have better or even the same MPG as the W211...the W211 probably is better because the newer cars have different regulations they have to follow, which the why they have the AdBlue tank. I wonder which car is cleaner environmentally?

Either way, I don't even know why this bickering is going back and forth. You are the one that came in and claimed how much better the W211 is than the W212 unprovoked so there may be someone with a chip on their shoulder, but it isn't me.

Green E-300 DT

Yes, that is what they say, but they are dead wrong.
Do not for one nano-second believe that your car will run that hard. Too many road tests say differently!
Also, the weigh listed is not enough. They added the AdBlue fluid with all its required equipment and
all its weight and the car supposedly became lighter than the 2011? Makes no sense at all.

Both Car and Driver and CU list the weight as being higher.
The only reallly correct way to be absolutely sure is to fill it up and with nothing else
in the vehicle, have it weighed on a certified scale. Then we will know for sure.

I plan on doing the same with mine.

Yes indeed, how you drive does make a BIG difference. As you can see, my last test was off because I let mine idle several times while waiting for my wife and it was too hot not to be using the A/C.
Also, I do not run the speed limit, but try and hold it down to 2000 rpms
which seem to be where mine does its best fuel economy.
ALSO, 38 PSI front and 40 PSI rear colds helps too!

BTW, I am not bickering with you, but merely pointing out what I and many others consider and believe to be facts.

Yes indeed, there is no doubt that your new car is clearner environmentally.
Have no doubt about that, but that costs you both in fuel economy and power.
That why beginning with MY 2007 in all diesels sold here, performance and fuel economy are off, mainly account of the DPFs.

And because yours is heavier and performance was off, MBZ went
from 2.65 gears to the 3.07 used in the gassers.
And in so doing, revs are up and fuel economy suffered.
Also, the 17 inch run-flats are heavier and wider too, and that costs fuel economy.

Good luck with your new car and keep posting.



Derrel

hx_guy

Honestly I can't believe you truly believe that Mercedes would lie on their own website about their specs...why would they do that? Yes, Car and Driver shows a higher weight, but it may include the driver (the difference between the two stats is 214lbs). Did you happen to see what Car and Driver's stats for the W211 E320 CDI were? Weight 4002lbs and 0-60 in 7.1 seconds. Officially from Mercedes is 3835lbs, so a 167lb difference, again, could be the driver. But I think you should compare apples to apples if you are going to compare...Mercedes says the W212 is 4059lbs and the W211 is 3835lbs. Car and Driver says the W212 is 4273lbs and the W211 is 4002lbs. Car and Driver shows a 0-60 of 7.2 seconds for the W212, so a tenth of a second difference.

Either way, I don't see why it's so relevant if one is faster than the other...how many E Class drivers drag race their cars? I rarely rarely even floor it, part throttle is more than plenty. I also doubt that you race yours, or drive it that hard, since your main concern seems to be MPG.

And really? You're comparing your MPG in a car that apparently you don't use the A/C all the time and you drive UNDER the speed limit to another car that you have no idea on what their driving habits are? And you don't count stats if they aren't ideal, like if you idled a lot? I live in Phoenix, the A/C is ALWAYS on and I always drive over the speed limit, usually 5-10 MPH over on surface streets (50-55 MPH) and the same on the highway around town, so 70-75 MPH, sometimes maybe even a bit higher with the flow of traffic. And I just fill up and use the car and record the mileage, no matter if the car idled for 15 minutes or not, it's part of the overall MPG. I'm sure if I cared more about how good the fuel economy is, I could do better, as there are a couple W212 Bluetecs on Fuelly that show an average MPG of 33.9 and 34.6.

Green E-300 DT

Oh, I do 'get with it' every now and then. Even though I am 76 years young,
I still have been known to drop the hammer every now and then!
Especially if and when some clown is right on my back bumper at highway speeds and tailgating to closely,
I will jump on it hard and give a nice shot of black smoke (soot) that has built up in the pipes.
But come to think of it, yours cannot do that can it?

Since you run over the speed limit all the time, no wonder you are not getting better fuel economy.
Do you allow yours to upshift earlier? What PSI do you run?
Does yours have 18 inch wheels?

Have to check out those 2012 Blutecs getting such good tank averages.

BTW, here lately, I have been using the A/C regularly.
Did your CDI always start off in the morning automatically with the A/C on without you turning it on?
Mine does that even later on during the day sometimes. Can't figure out why?
Is it to monentarily to cool the car down after it has been setting in the sun and hot inside?

I am most of the time in no hurry, and find that driving at 60 mph vs 70 mph only saves approximately
8.5 seconds per mile. Yet fuel economy is much better at those slower speeds.
Also, I drive in 'C' mode most of the time because these cars have plenty
of low rpm torque and I don't feel the need for that low first gear ratio.
If it is uphill or I am backing uphill into my garage, I always hit the button and
use the lower gear in the 'S' position, especially when in reverse.
Seems to strain when backing uphill if I use the higher reverse ratio.

As you may recall, I still have the floor shifter, and I feel that makes it easier to better control the shifts.

Carry on.



Derrel

Green E-300 DT

Just checked, and those two are not 2012s.

The 12s are different and won't do as well as the 2007 through 2011s.
There are only two other 2012s Bluetec diesels beside yours.

By the way, all E Klass cars are Bluetecs whether or not they are diesels.



Derrel

hx_guy

The black smoke (soot) is a good thing? Grasping at straws a little bit?

quote]

Do you allow yours to upshift earlier? What PSI do you run?
Does yours have 18 inch wheels?
[/quote]

Not sure what the PSI is, whatever it was set at from the dealer, I assume whatever the recommended PSI is supposed to be. I have the standard 17" wheels.

Have to check out those 2012 Blutecs getting such good tank averages.

Not sure what you mean by automatically...my A/C is always on, when I turn the car on, when I turn it off, I never touch the on/off button, only the fan speed. It's set at "LO" at all times.

Really? Is the floor shifter easier and better to control than paddles on the steering wheel?

Where did you get your information that the 2012 are different than the 2011? (From my knowledge, there was no diesel E Class in 2010 here in the US). The Car and Driver article I read, which was a review of a 2011, sounded like it was identical to mine, including the AdBlue tank.

And I think you're confusing Bluetec with Blue Efficiency. All the E Class say "Blue Efficiency" but only the diesel models are called "Bluetec".

ImInPA

Using a simpler stop watch, when my 2011 Bluetec was new-ish (2K mI) My E would go 0-60 in about 7.4 secs (by my crude handheld method). It was consistent. Now, with close to 40K miles, using the same stop watch and method, I get to 60 right at, or, just below 7 seconds. Maybe MB is quoting a fully broken in Bluetec. All of the test were with low mileage testers. In any event, the Bluetec feels much faster than it is because of all of the torque. Now, quit arguing and get out there driving.

Green E-300 DT

Don't really think that I am. Just pointing out a few little details that do make a big difference.

If we come off as bickering or arguing, well I'm sorry, but I didn't mean for what I said to sound like that.

Oh, I do and did yesterday when I drove the CDI 130 miles R/T to pick up the better half
from baby sitting her grand kids. Will take her back tonight for the next week.
And on Monday, another 110 mile R/T to the eye Doctor for an exam and routine appointment.

That how this good old economy car has gotten 14K miles on its odometer since December 2011.

You can see why I drive a diesel. Ten (10) cents a mile for fuel.

It does not do nearly as well as the Jetta JSW did, but it is so much more car for the same money.
Sold the Jetta with almost 44K miles on it in only 22 months for enough to pay cash for the CDI.
It averaged over 44 mpg for that 43.4K miles.



Derrel

SpeedTuningUSA

Hi there,
I just picked up a MB E350 Bluetec 2011 with over 30k, drove it from a dealer in OH back to MD, over 400miles, and got over 45MPG average, doing 70-80MPH mostly??? Being in the tuning business it even surprised me how good the mileage was on such a heavy 3l V6 CR. First i thought the computer was not accurate, but when i left OH the dealer had it filed upand when i arrived in MD, over 400miles later only less than half the tankshowed empty. That is awesome. Now driving for a week with average city and highway it shows around 36MPG. Hm, this Bluetec is surprising me more and more in a positive way. I wonder if somebody already modified the software on thisone, but my MPG seems to be higher than the average MPG posted here? Will checkit out next week.
Does anybody else experience similar MPG on astock Bluetec?

hx_guy

If you are going by what the car's display says, it'd a little optimistic in my experience by about 2-3 MPG you're still doing pretty good though.

SpeedTuningUSA

thats true, i will fill it up and calculate the real MPG. Another surprise, i thought i bought a 2011 model for $35k, which is a pretty good deal, looking in the door it states 08/11, can't believe it, its a 2012 , that explains all the Sirius Weather and traffic options, which didn't come in the 2011 i was told, i am starting to love this car

hx_guy

Do you have a color or monochrome display in the gauge cluster? That's how you can check if it's truly a 2011 or 2012 I believe.

SpeedTuningUSA

I know, its already color, sweet, but i still got the older LED's in the front, didn't they have the straight ones in the real 2012 models?

hx_guy

The 2012 does have the straight LEDs vs the older style, that's odd. Maybe you're is a hybrid 2011/2012.

SpeedTuningUSA

hybrid, right, i hate those suckers, nothing you can do with them, anyway, i will rip out the ECU next week and see if it is already modified, never got with my 335d close to this MPG and i am running a St2 in it for 2 years now, driving like a old man with 520lbft

Green E-300 DT

No. They will not! Not true MPG figured with gallons consumed over miles traveled.

Nobody is getting anywheres near those mpg figures with their 3.0L V6 Bluetec.
Check the Fuelly entries for all V6s diesels beginning in 2007.
Even my 2005 straight 3.222L 648.961 six won't do that well, and the older
2005-2006 CDIs do better fuel economy wise than the newer V6s.

It is easy to be sure what year Bluetec you have. Simply check the tenth character of the VIN.
If it is a 'B' you have a 2011. If it is a 'C' its a 2012.

Doesn't your paperwork say?

Wait until you tune it and then see what you are getting?

BTW, have you tuned the 335d?



DHG

Green E-300 DT

What you see in the door is NOT the Year of the vehicle. It may be the build date?

Do you really think that you scored a 2012 for only $35K?

It's a 2011 or else that dealer is the stupidest MBZ dealer in the country?



Derrel

SpeedTuningUSA

Exactly, i couldn't believe it myself, i had it over 45MPG and was hauling *** home, also there are the PA mountains i had to go over, as i said something doesn't check out, i bet its already modified, will keep you updated on it.
If it is stock i go with a strong ECO setting and see if i can even do better
Its a 2011 in the paperwork and also in the Vin, but i have the colored display and the Sirius options of the 2012, but the old LED's in the front.
yes the 335d is tuned, but with an aggressive St2 setting, i wanted to see what i could get out of it, 350HP and 520lbft torque, don't forget its a twinturbo.

SpeedTuningUSA

i know that, but to my knowledge everything after 06 is considered the next year model, its debatable if they are the stupidest MB dealer, nevertheless i think i got a good deal on an almost 2012 BlueTec
BTW the older W211 CDI's do get with a good ECO setting MPG in the lower 40's ...

Green E-300 DT

I seriously doubt that. It takes a certain amount of D2 to move 2 tons.

That may or may not be true, but I would not want to loose the way mine puts out now for
a couple more mpgs. Now, if I could have the F E I have now and even more torque . .
then and only then would I have it tuned.

I know what mine gets. Read my Fuelly. Records do not lie! No one using Fuelly reports better.



DHG

Green E-300 DT

You'll have to explain that statement.

There are many many differences between the 2007 V6s and the 2010s.
About the only thing they have in common is that they use D2 and are V6s.

Perhaps you are not aware of this, but MBZ makes running changes during any period, not just with
a new model year. My parts dealer always wants my VIN before he get me parts because of that.



DHG

dfordham

IIRC, some of the late build 2011's got the new, improved NTG 4.5 COMAND due to a shortage of NTG 4's. Since they were ramping up for 2012 production, they had plenty of NTG 4.5 units to fill the shortage.

You, apparently, are one of the lucky ones.

Regards,
Don

Vincent Lee

Does anyone know of an app or website tracking diesel fuel and diesel fuel prices? If not, should I make one?