El Cid

That's my opinion anyway. The E and S should be mid-size and large car sedans and the grilles should reflect that. If you want a "sporty" car with a sporty grille, MB has lots of different cars out there.
I think MB's slide is due to several factors. Poor marketing is one and trying to compete in every market segment is another.
Another is that MB has lost its reputation for high reliability cars.
They seem to be playing follow everybody else when it comes to electronic features, stick LED lights, etc.
BTW, clock placement is better, but do you really need an analog clock on dash when the display has a digital clock?
Never say never, but I doubt I would have purchased an E class if it had the Star grille on the front. Would have gone down the street to Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Acura or Lexus.

xolinlevh

back seat

I will say I like this new back seat. The headrests look much better and the split between the seats.

Wig

YYZ - are you able to confirm whether the 'star-in-grille' will be the only grille available in Canada? If so, I will have to buy a 2013.

jvc300

Let's say I was not understanding you.

I do agree that the Star grill does not look good on all cars. For example the SLR or SLS it look great and it belongs there.
My thinking is the star grill with be part the amg styling pkg, and the luxury will have the more traditional grill and they may be exchangeable.

I always enjoy your passion for the aesthetics of automobiles. I have the same passion of the flowing lines of these awesome machines (like a 911).

hyperion667

I would like to see CLS with a star-less grill

petee1997

I must admit that I love the star grill. My two MB's now have it.

Something I would like to recommend is full LED lighting. They are quite superior to Zenon and they will last as long as you own the car. The literature says 10,000 hours.

Some of you mentioned the analogue clock. It's a nice touch. I have it in my CLS and it looks great. As a matter of fact the dash in the new E class looks very similar to the CLS.

For a mid cycle facelift, this new E will look practically like a new generation car.

BenzV12

Thanks YYZ for additional pics you provided . What I don't see is why MB designers is making a big deal on big MB logo on the grill which means no hood emblem on the hood if you pick up Avantgarde let alone AMG
If they are so adamant on huge truck sized grill then MB should make it available in their accessory inventory . I mean , MB makes clear LEDs and oif you like you can buy and swap your factory tail lights and no matter what model you pick up even a true E63 AMG you will not have clear leds unless you go buy those . Because clear leds may not become everyone's cup of tea . In this case, MB logo grill should have been same not a standard item and what's worse you have no option unless you order Elegance
In my case, I swapped mine with Elegance grill because of 4 vertical slats as opposed to Avantgarde's 3 vertical ones and grill fit easily w/o requiring bumper, hood replacement . Whereas if you want a proper grill for a proper MB E Class this swap deems to be very very costly

I also like W176 A Class but I would love to see a proper MB grill and same goes for CLS .Do not flame me but if I bought R231 I would like to install a MB logo on the hood as well

SolidGranite

I personally love the star location on the hood. Will miss it if they are really going forward with this star integration in the grille business. They should save that for the coupe and the coupe only. Slightly disappointed.

BenzE350

IMO the major reason is that BMW and Audi are currently making better automobiles.

Wig

Both BMW and Audi seem to be able to make more powerful engines, post better performance stats, AND still get better fuel economy. Worrying times indeed for MB.

YYZ-E55

I believe that will be the case, but profiles are not yet finalized.

Wig

I wonder whether MB will now have an even harder time justifying the price premium of the CLS over the E? They've essentially copied the CLS interior, added full LED headlights, and loaded the E with new safety technology.

VividRacing

I love it!

alsyli

Ugh. Talk about allowing inmates to run the prison.... I think the star grille looks great on the C-class (and the lamella grille odd, for the reasons I mentioned previously) and I realize that chasing a more youthful market is important for the continued existence of the brand, but.... ::shrug:: Teutonic arrogance has its faults, but it did lead to the creation of some legendary cars....

YYZ-E55, do you know if the fancy rear headrests and artico dash will be available on (non-designo) US cars?

hyperion667

wonder how many folks will want to get a star-less AM grill hehe....
kind of like when a lot of us (me included) getting the star grill for our w212's

BenzE350

Hype - you have a very colorful fleet - red and orange - but you gotta get more creative with the car in the middle.

YYZ-E55

I'm not sure which rear headrests you're referring to, but if it's the ones that have a concave shape, they're part of the P08 rear comfort package (2 rear seats with console instead of 3) and hasn't been offered in North America in the past - it was available before facelift as well. Most people want 3 seats across the back.



ARTICO dash has been available in North America for a couple years, US just never offered it.

YYZ-E55

Slightly modified center console switchgear, looks cleaner.



Avantgarde gauge cluster

xolinlevh

I did not know that. I want that option......

alsyli

Those are exactly the ones I was referring to, thanks. I had seen them in other studio shots when the W212 was first released, but I had assumed that it was limited to markets outside of NA.

Kind of disappointing that the US doesn't get those options (esp the artico dash), but I guess that's why we pay relatively little for our MBs in general....

SpinZero

Just dropped by to see what the reaction to this FL is like from the MB community, and not surprisingly I see a lot of "the end is near" comments.

2011 global sales numbers

BMW 5 series 310,050
MB E-class 338,386

MB is behind BMW and Audi in terms of global total sales, but the E class remains the segment leader. In addition, MB is the US sales leader until November,

"Through November of this year, Mercedes has sold about 246,000 vehicles, slightly ahead of BMW, which has sold about 244,000 vehicles."

although they expect eventually to lose to BMW after December due to aggressive incentives by BMW.

Bangle took a lot of crap with his designs, which looked nothing like the classic and understated pre-bangle bimmers. But it now seems he will go down the history as one of the most successful and influential car designers of his generation. So changes aren't always bad, I don't think.

Also, it's not clear to me how much difference all this makes in terms of resale values of older cars. People have all kinds of ideas about what affects resale, but I have not seen a single study that really lays it out.

alsyli

Just to make it clear, I think MB's current design language is bizarre, irrespective of their sales figures. I see quite a few new MBs around here in LA, so I assume that they were doing just fine.

I would also argue that "influential" and "great designer" are not one and the same. BMWs designs (both inside and out) have been undoubtedly influential. But the fact that BMW itself has stepped away from the flame surfacing and that Bangle has himself stepped away from the car biz might speak volumes.

Besides, wasn't it actually Adrian van Hooydonk who actually designed the 7-series?

As for resale value, I agree that the redesign (and that redesigns in general) don't really mean much for resale value, if the car itself was fundamentally fine.

SpinZero

It's true that Bangle himself did not design any of the known "Bangle designs". I think at that point he was already too important to be actually designing things. But the overall direction was presumably directed by him, and as critical as I was at first of his approach, it's hard to argue with the massive sales growth BMW experienced during his tenure. And I don't think it's correct to characterize his departure from car biz as a failure. On the contrary, my understanding is that he is one of the most sought after product designers in the world right now. Like his designs or not (I'm ok with it, although I still think E39 5 series was the best BMW sedan), the guy has a spectacularly successful career.

alsyli

Or that Bangle okay'd van Hooydonk's designs that followed some sort of design brief? I don't know anything about the inner workings of the automotive industry, though.... And I'm not arguing that the design of the cars wasn't effective (at least in terms of sales growth).

And I also wouldn't say that Bangle's departure should be interpreted as a failure. I actually thought that the previous 5-series (silhouette only), 6-series, and Z4 were actually all quite interesting, and he apparently recently won some type of industry award.

For me, though, his departure calls into question his self-perception: is he a Designer (capital "D" intended), or is he a *car* designer? Given how bizarrely shaped the 7-series was overall, the weird design details of the 5-series (particularly the trailing edge of the headlights, which was both sublime and ridiculous), and the fact that he left the automotive industry altogether, I'm inclined to think he thinks of himself as the former. And that's different than my own philosophy (in which a car itself is something about which you have a lifelong passion and which isn't simply seen as a piece of metal to be bent and twisted solely in the name of artistic creativity and "progress").

Bangle (or someone else at BMW) commented that there was no further design evolution possible from the 1990's lineup. I agree w/ this. And I think the newer BMWs, while more tasteful, still certainly aren't necessarily *elegant* (particularly the pudgy-looking 5-series).

I just sometimes look back at the cars from the 1990s (I remember seeing a 2nd generation Legend coupe recently) and just sort of long for a simpler time (when automotive designs seemed more functional and less ornamental). ::sigh::

K-A

The 2011 numbers don't mean much since it was the first year of the F10 5-Series which for one reason or another hadn't gotten into its full sales swing (possibly supply).

The 2012 figures show the E-Class getting crushed by the 5-Series in Global Sales. The E does outsell the 5 in the U.S last I checked (several months ago), but that includes the E Coupe and Wagon VS the 5 Sedan and GT (obviously the hideous GT isn't gonna show up much).

M-B is getting hammered in Global Sales. I mean, even Audi is ahead of them. IMO it's due to discordant styling that is clearly not even being backed by its own designers in quite a few cases, for the full 7 year production run.

The F01 7-Series was designed under Bangles watch, and I believe Karim Habib may have been the actual designers of the exterior, while I believe it was Nader Faghihzadeh who designed the interior (he also went on to design the beautiful exterior of the new 6 Series).

Bangle put out some ugly designs, IMO, but for whatever reason, he revolutionized the auto industry. He can't be compared to M-B's current crop of designers as they haven't designed anything that has been nearly as copied by Bangles work, and currently they aren't breaking much ground in terms of innovation, rather following lots of trends.

I think the facelift E looks pretty good actually, I just don't like the W220 90's generically shaped headlights and the distracting graphics taking over the great quad headlights, and the rendition of the Star grille and how rounded the AMG bumper along with it look on the "older" angular design (lack of harmony), but all in all I think it looks good otherwise. The new Classic/Luxury style grille looks great, which we probably won't even get here unfortunately, the interior is a nice improvement, the side is different but nice in its own way, and the rear is boring and plain as the current one, but does look nice and sophisticated yet a bit dynamic in its own way.