hyperion667

MBNUT1

So I see multiple observations running around in this thread.

a) Low speed steering feel of the 2012's and newer is uncharacteristically light for a Mercedes which in turn raises the concern that Mercedes is allowing focus groups to drive their vehicle performance over engineers. One could argue that as long as it tightens up sufficiently at speed (which I think that it does) it meets a reasonable engineering criteria (though I personally find the transition rather unnatural)
b) BMW's have heavier low speed steering.
c) As I am a life long Mercedes fanboy Mercedes will always be superior to BMW's in my book if for no other reason than styling (though I would say that the F10 BMW is one of the most appealingly styled BMW's yet). It doesn't help that my dad referred to them as a poor mans Mercedes when I was a kid. My son has a 135i and for what it is it's a great car.
d) KA is a long term MBWorld member who has had several Mercedes including two W212's loves his new BMW F10. His posts touting it's superiority of it over the W212 are getting tiresome for W212 owners. Given the reasonable assertion that it's highly unlikely that most Mercedes E-Class owners are going to make that transition. I know that I wouldn't because if I did I would always long at a Mercedes and long to own it.

K-A

I really don't think I've been going around "touting its superiority" here, to an unreasonable degree at least. If I have, then I understand the annoyance and I digress. It still doesn't give people to act like bratty children here and lash out at someone who doesn't like their toys the best (you'd expect a level of class and dignity from a Mercedes collective, and I hope the attitude isn't a representation of who the brand attracts nowadays and where the brand is headed). Even in my own thread about my switch, which is fair-game, I've tried to bite my lip.... err, fingers as much as I can. I'll save that stuff for the Bimmer boards.

This thread is about steering, and what I've said about the steering of both cars is not only factual but it's in direct relation to the thread. Using two cars to gauge which is "softer". It was someone else who mentioned that Mercedes might or might not be letting focus-groups "engineer" aspects like steering on their cars, which I chimed in and said would be a travesty, though isn't hard to believe considering certain things. Who's to say BMW doesn't let focus-groups at least chime in on various methods as well? Lots of BMW guys are mad about the F10 becoming more like a "Mercedes" in terms of getting softer and floatier, which could very well have to do with focus-group types who wanted a more comfy car over the previous hardcore drivers-car approach.

Yes, BMW's steering is generally always heavier and more connected than Mercedes', which is appropriate to the root of values these brands employ and stand for. The same is still true for the F10 VS W212, however many BMW guys constantly bash the F10's less-connected-than-its-predecessors steering, while this is the first thread I've seen here on the even-much-softer W212's steering. That right there can give you an idea on what buyers of each are looking for. I personally never wanted a Mercedes for "heavy connected steering". IMO Mercedes is about ease of drive, luxury, a perfect get-around car.... lighter steering is appropriate to that, to some extents, which of course isn't an excuse for sloppiness, if one were to feel that from the car.

Quadcammer

OMFG, enough.

how many bloody F10/212 comparisons are you going to make????

Arrie

petee,

I thought you are a bit more mature guy than what your recent posts indicate.

What the hell does it matter if K-A drives and likes the BMW now? He has been one of the best and most reliable source of information about the W212 for a very long time.

I think he still is a MB enthusiast in his heart to still spend time here in these forums and quite honestly will tell how the new ride is.

If the MB is so heavenly as you seem to think (and I wish) then K-A will be posting about issues he has with the Bimmer. I really belive he honestly will (the problems are coming by your opinion, right). Then we'll all know. I'm starting to think you are afraid that there will not be issues with it and this will burst your bubble.

I just hope you do not get K-A pissed to the point that he actually decides to stop writing here.

Keep it coming K-A!!

Arrie

Back to the topic.

I see a lot of posts saying the W212 steering is too light. I don't know the 2012 and newer models as mine is a 2010 and the previous one was a 2011. These seem the same and I don't feel it is too light but I can say sometimes I feel it is a bit too quick. At highway speeds it seems it could be a little bit slower.

K-A

How many times are you gonna chime in without contributing to the subject at hand?

As far as I know, I've done *0* F10 VS W212 comparisons. Certainly don't want to rile up the troops here any more than some mere respectful firsthand perceptions already bafflingly have.

Thank you, sir, very well said and certainly appreciated. You should see the troll-post Petee did on my long and thoughtfully honest post on a certain Bimmer forum, it's exactly what he's deludedly assuming "I'm" doing here.

And you're spot on. I AM still an M-B enthusiast, and any resentment I may or may not have toward certain actions from the brand are there simply because I actually care about what M-B does. I'm not on Chevy Forums talking about Malibu's simply because I had one, for a reason.

Indeed, just because I got out of my (2) W212's doesn't mean that I'm not an enthusiast of the car, nor does it mean all those YEARS I spent studying it and the brand and history behind it are all moot.

It's funny how some guys can be so self-conscious about their choices that they project their insecurities onto others. Just because I say "my F10's steering is heavier than my W212's is NOT reckless criticism toward the W212, NOR does it mean that I all of a sudden hate the W212 and never want to follow up to see how it's treating people.

BenzV12

I find W212's steering wheel balance the best among the cars I have ever driven . May be 7 Series can slight be better .Neither too soft not too hard .It may not be as direct as Lamborghini Aventador but hey that's a different league lol

4 MATICs have different set up than RWD W212s but because I have not driven a 4 MATIC W212 , I can't compare which is better but 4 MATIC Owners find it better

ImInPA

I recently had a 2013 E as a loaner. I thought the Direct Steer system felt damn near perfect. Not as good as my S with regards to steering feel, but damn close. I thought it felt much better than the steering on my 2011 E350 Bluetec. I do not like the steering feel of the F10 BMW with regards to steering feel. It is neither 3 series sporty, nor, E-Class luxurious. This is obviously a highly personal issue. In my honest opinion, the OP should have taken a more thorough test drive. During a test-drive, steering feel, brake pedal modulation, suspension are impossible not to notice. I can understand not noticing a missing center console, but the items I listed are simply impossible not to notice.

K-A

Oh now you done it, someone's bout to get mad about you coming here talking up that new S of yours!

W210

I have no complaints over the steering of the 2012 E550 4matic. Since it's my luxury sedan, I like it nice and comfortable without too much effort.

The courtesy E-class coupes I have driven have far more direct feel, but then, they are smaller cars.

Haven't driven the S in a long time, not particular impressed with the steering of the BMW current 5 or 7, they are all pretty lifeless anyway. Maybe the 3 is better.

Tjdehya

I believe the 5 series steering is dynamic, I am not sure if its standard or an option.
But for you guys that claim that you dont like the F10 steering feel, did you try it in all modes?

W210

Had only driven the 535i sport. My biggest disappointment of the car is actually not the steering but the throttle delay.

Also find it hard to get in and out of, and the rear seems to be tighter than the E as well. Otherwise, the car looks quite nice and I like the extra options too.

Quadcammer

haven't laughed that hard in a while. His ridiculous posts about styling? come on. Whatever he drives at the time is just marvelous. Just wait till the next car.

what? Nearly every post for last 3 months has been in some way a comparison between the two cars. Its endless.

The subject at hand is asinine because its entirely subjective. Whats heavy steering to one person is light to another. Why anyone wants heavy steering in a bloated luxury car with no sporting intentions is beyond me, but again, its subjective.

BenzE350

I only drove the E350 Sport 4Matic, however, the steering didn't appear to be any softer than prior years. Interestingly, when I first drove the F10 535xi the steering seemed very light to me compared to the E60 I had a few years ago.

I can't remember if MB has any drive select type modes that alter the steering weight like BMW, Audi, etc.?


Agreed. KA is one of the most entertaining posters on this forum. Where else could we read gems like this:

Just the image of KA wresting to get his F10 to turn while his friend was swerving around ahead of him because the steering was too loose. Priceless.

alsyli

Did you have the Sport or Luxury Bluetec? And was the loaner a Sport or a Luxury? I recall Consumer Reports stating that they thought the steering on the Luxury version of both the C- and E-classes were preferable (in their opinion) to the Sport.... I don't mind somewhat light steering at low speeds, but the wt simply isn't loading up enough on my C250 Sport. I recall the W211 we had had horrifically light steering at load speeds, but at least it weighed up nicely by freeway speeds. The main problem was that it had NO feel whatsoever (honestly, it felt like the steering wheel was part of a game console).


Agreed.

This part I'm not sure I agree w/. You can notice certain aspects of steering, braking, and ride quality during a test drive, but most of the dealers here only allow you to take a 1-mi drive around the city. It's really hard (if not impossible) to extrapolate what a car will be like on the freeway from such a test drive.

BenzE350

Wow, that would be disappointing. Hard to tell much from such a short test drive.

The dealer I bought my past MB from gave me the keys and said take as long as you need. If I'm interested in a car I usually take several test drives before making a final decision. This is especially important if you are uncertain on the exact model and features you want. An E350 luxury is not going to drive like an E550 sport.

The BMW dealer that I work with offers to let me take the car home overnight.

alsyli

Isn't it? Glad to hear your dealers are so generous!

Back when Infiniti was selling the Q45 (the final version), the dealer said something similar to my father (take it overnight to see how you like it). I wish dealers here in LA would let you do the same thing since it's obviously a huge outlay of $ and not a decision you want to make on a 10-min test drive. Or maybe they do if you've got more $ than I have.... ::snort::

K-A

Unlike you I actually DO buy what my "perfect" car at the time is. I don't just hold onto M-B's lousiest quality debacle for years, and run into threads jealous of others' choices and opinions on styling (funny, the prejudice here by those who seemingly haven't the ability to dissect and express strong opinion in design toward those who do.... when you have nothing to offer, just fling a personal attack toward someone who does, it's a great masking-method). My next car I'm sure will have to be superior to the one I have now, or else it I won't make it my "next car".

It's called evolution.