E vs S mode ?
#26
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E350
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#27
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..MB could have just as easily made the "S" the default mode but then fuel economy testing would have been done with that setting.
This isn't a "stupid government rule" but it is a rule to keep a manufacturer from cheating - or else you get the Bugatti being tested using one cylinder to get acceptable ratings.
Not everything the government does is a conspiracy against the consumer.
This isn't a "stupid government rule" but it is a rule to keep a manufacturer from cheating - or else you get the Bugatti being tested using one cylinder to get acceptable ratings.
Not everything the government does is a conspiracy against the consumer.
#28
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2014 Sport White on black
S mode MPG
Does "S" mode affect gas mileage? I have never had a car with 300HP average 25.6MPG and I hate to get less if I go "S" mode all the time. My M35 with 276HP only got 22MPG (on a good week) and I like to keep my MPG higher is possible to keep my wife happy.
#29
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yes but paying a few bucks more per fill up gets you non-stop smile .
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#30
Senior Member
In Germany we have to pay a yearly tax for each car. This tax is highly dependent on the fuel consumption as stated by Mercedes (comparableto the US EPA).
Therefore Mercedes could not allow to switch off ECO Start/Stop or to choose “S”-Mode by default, as this would definitely have a negative impact on mileage! And this, as stated above, would lead into defraudation of tax.
Also I would like to point out something else: In Non-AMG 212 one can alter thetransmission mode (“E” / “S” / “M” (optional)). This has nothing to do with the suspension setup. To effect the ride-hide and the damper-characteristic-curve, one has to push the button to the right of the comand-controller(Airmatic-DC equipped cars only).
Therefore Mercedes could not allow to switch off ECO Start/Stop or to choose “S”-Mode by default, as this would definitely have a negative impact on mileage! And this, as stated above, would lead into defraudation of tax.
Also I would like to point out something else: In Non-AMG 212 one can alter thetransmission mode (“E” / “S” / “M” (optional)). This has nothing to do with the suspension setup. To effect the ride-hide and the damper-characteristic-curve, one has to push the button to the right of the comand-controller(Airmatic-DC equipped cars only).
#31
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I've only read through about 1/2 of the manual and I can tell you I've already found about a dozen discrepancies from the manual to actual functionality.
Also in a previous vehicle, manual stated DRL is fixed on with no way to disable, well that was wrong too.
So its likely there is a way to make the mode start in S, just hasn't been discovered by anyone yet.
#32
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
The rationale behind this rule is sound, but some of the tin foil hat crew will never understand that.
#34
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Come to think of it, my last MB had a physical toggle switch that determined the mode and there are other MB models that have the same switch today so I think this is an MB 'feature' and not government mandated.
#35
Senior Member
At the risk of repeating myself: This feature was necessary to make the car street legal at least here in Europe. Therefore MB did make it impossible to work around that with an Easteregg…
However, we do have some shops over here in Europe, that can deactivate Eco-Start-Stop and I am pretty sure that they might have a solution for the “E”/”S”-problem. I just pushed a thread in a german forum, which discussed exactly this issue. If they find a solution, I will keep you updated.
However, we do have some shops over here in Europe, that can deactivate Eco-Start-Stop and I am pretty sure that they might have a solution for the “E”/”S”-problem. I just pushed a thread in a german forum, which discussed exactly this issue. If they find a solution, I will keep you updated.
#36
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On highway driving makes absolutely no mpg difference between E/S.
In city traffic probably does but I would not think this is significant either.
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#37
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
At the risk of repeating myself: This feature was necessary to make the car street legal at least here in Europe. Therefore MB did make it impossible to work around that with an Easteregg…
However, we do have some shops over here in Europe, that can deactivate Eco-Start-Stop and I am pretty sure that they might have a solution for the “E”/”S”-problem. I just pushed a thread in a german forum, which discussed exactly this issue. If they find a solution, I will keep you updated.
However, we do have some shops over here in Europe, that can deactivate Eco-Start-Stop and I am pretty sure that they might have a solution for the “E”/”S”-problem. I just pushed a thread in a german forum, which discussed exactly this issue. If they find a solution, I will keep you updated.
Pushing that button really is a first world problem.
#38
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
One can negate the difference by careful application of the gas pedal - but that puts you back in E mode
#39
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The EPA does not require MB to revert to the "E" mode. DOT and EPA rules require that if there are different "performance" modes then the fuel economy will be tested in the default mode.
MB could have just as easily made the "S" the default mode but then fuel economy testing would have been done with that setting.
MB could have just as easily made the "S" the default mode but then fuel economy testing would have been done with that setting.
#40
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
You started your post with a comment about "stupid government rules" and stated that EPA mandated that the setting revert to E.
I corrected your misconception and explained that EPA/DOT requires the MPG testing to be done at the default setting. MB chose to do the mpg testing at the E setting.
You seem angry. Take a drive in your car and everything will be much better.
I corrected your misconception and explained that EPA/DOT requires the MPG testing to be done at the default setting. MB chose to do the mpg testing at the E setting.
You seem angry. Take a drive in your car and everything will be much better.
#41
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You started your post with a comment about "stupid government rules" and stated that EPA mandated that the setting revert to E.
I corrected your misconception and explained that EPA/DOT requires the MPG testing to be done at the default setting. MB chose to do the mpg testing at the E setting.
You seem angry. Take a drive in your car and everything will be much better.
I corrected your misconception and explained that EPA/DOT requires the MPG testing to be done at the default setting. MB chose to do the mpg testing at the E setting.
You seem angry. Take a drive in your car and everything will be much better.
EPA requires that if the mode can be set and remain in "S" mode, then MB can't use "E" mode on the fuel economy tests.
And it IS an EPA and DOT rule, as you said. I think it's stupid (as did the OP), and was pointing out that it's not a stupid MB decision, but one driven by CAFE regulations.
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#43
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Got the car back from the dealer Monday afternoon, did the PCM reset, and so far it is driving much smoother and pickup in E is much stronger (Haven't tried S yet).
Thanks for the info. How often will we need to do this PCM reset? And why can't MB figure out how to make it adaptive in real-time? In all my previous cars (BMW, VW, Audi) it's always been adaptive in real time (i.e. if I loan my car to my father for a week, when I get it back, it'll run sluggishly until the system re-adapts to my driving style. Usually takes a day or two and its back to normal).
Thanks for the info. How often will we need to do this PCM reset? And why can't MB figure out how to make it adaptive in real-time? In all my previous cars (BMW, VW, Audi) it's always been adaptive in real time (i.e. if I loan my car to my father for a week, when I get it back, it'll run sluggishly until the system re-adapts to my driving style. Usually takes a day or two and its back to normal).
#44
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Got the car back from the dealer Monday afternoon, did the PCM reset, and so far it is driving much smoother and pickup in E is much stronger (Haven't tried S yet).
Thanks for the info. How often will we need to do this PCM reset? And why can't MB figure out how to make it adaptive in real-time? In all my previous cars (BMW, VW, Audi) it's always been adaptive in real time (i.e. if I loan my car to my father for a week, when I get it back, it'll run sluggishly until the system re-adapts to my driving style. Usually takes a day or two and its back to normal).
Thanks for the info. How often will we need to do this PCM reset? And why can't MB figure out how to make it adaptive in real-time? In all my previous cars (BMW, VW, Audi) it's always been adaptive in real time (i.e. if I loan my car to my father for a week, when I get it back, it'll run sluggishly until the system re-adapts to my driving style. Usually takes a day or two and its back to normal).
#45
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#46
PCM solves everything Realistically, the difference between E and S is extremely miniscule (IMO). Personally, I consider them to be one and the same. Just drive it aggressively if you want a more sporty feel and if it gets laggy, PCM reset. You want E, drive gracefully. Done!
#47
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
PCM solves everything Realistically, the difference between E and S is extremely miniscule (IMO). Personally, I consider them to be one and the same. Just drive it aggressively if you want a more sporty feel and if it gets laggy, PCM reset. You want E, drive gracefully. Done!
On a newer BMW, the Sport button is very comprehensive and feels genuinely derived from a bonafide sporting mind-frame. The car literally feels like another car when flipped into "Sport". It wails the engine in about every gear as if it's eager to redline, the gas pedal gets immensely more responsive, the gear changes are quickened extremely and the steering gets heavier. To top that off, you can go one up on BMW's with Sport Auto Transmission and/or M Sport Package to "Sport +" which now allows you to spin the tires at will. To top it off yet again, you have ANOTHER "Sport" option which is called "DS", i.e flipping the gear lever to the left (which is completely separate from the already very aggressive "Sport button") which gives you basically two aggressive Sport modes on top of each other.
The only downside to this is that the Sport button, and especially "Double Sport setup" i.e DS shift/Sport button are too aggressive for every day use and you'll find your car wanting to redline in moderate driving conditions and wasting tons of gas, cool, but rarely useful. I use it as more of something akin to a "Nitrus button", hit it and the car feels like it gained 100+ HP and got a double-clutch race-bred transmission.
I believe Porsche have a similar setup in how "true" their Sport button is. M-B's Sport button is practically non-existent in comparison YET at the same time you can use it all day long and feel an extremely moderate difference.
An option in the middle would be ideal: I.e BMW offering something along with its aggressive setup that's a little more mellow than said "Sport" setting that keeps the same sporting-nature, but is livable like M-B's. Or on the other hand, M-B offering something higher than their "Sport" setting which adds some true "Sport" characteristics but maintains the normal/livability attributes of its current system.
Last edited by K-A; 06-12-2013 at 02:01 AM.
#48
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I have the "S" or "C" transmission choice on mine. I've gotten into the habit of selecting "S" each time I start the car. Too bad there wasn't a way for the car to remain in "S" after I shut it down like my CLK55.
#49
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Got the car back from the dealer Monday afternoon, did the PCM reset, and so far it is driving much smoother and pickup in E is much stronger (Haven't tried S yet).
Thanks for the info. How often will we need to do this PCM reset? And why can't MB figure out how to make it adaptive in real-time? In all my previous cars (BMW, VW, Audi) it's always been adaptive in real time (i.e. if I loan my car to my father for a week, when I get it back, it'll run sluggishly until the system re-adapts to my driving style. Usually takes a day or two and its back to normal).
Thanks for the info. How often will we need to do this PCM reset? And why can't MB figure out how to make it adaptive in real-time? In all my previous cars (BMW, VW, Audi) it's always been adaptive in real time (i.e. if I loan my car to my father for a week, when I get it back, it'll run sluggishly until the system re-adapts to my driving style. Usually takes a day or two and its back to normal).
If you drive aggressively, the system will learn but it is a bit of a catch 22 - the sluggish system will keep you from driving more aggressively so it takes longer to learn.
#50
1st to 2nd gear is not smooth
1st time MB owner 2011 E550 with 46k miles. After I brought the car home I have hit the throttle a few times to see its performance in E and S modes , now it seems to have a hard 1-2 shift in S if I am gentle on the throttle. Hard accelerations are smooth. After reading some of the trans issues I am a bit concerned I have an issue that might be costly. Any help would be appreciated.
Last edited by paul550; 11-03-2020 at 09:33 PM.