GregTR

You guys crack me up...

USCGTO

With increasing efficiency, lately, the V6 or the TTV6 are making 400plus HP (cadillac CTS V sport) come on a Mustang V8 used to make 300 hp 5 years ago and today makes about the same 400 plus number.

I am sure V8s will stay but in high end models with true high performance (500 hp plus).

J.M.G.

Well, V6 with ~400hp are not that new. I would like to point out the Audi RS4 Avant (B5). It had an 2.7 V6 Twin Turbo...and that was like 15 years ago.

USCGTO

yeah. Not new. I am talking about the ones with 400 plus hp levels which didn't cost arm n a leg.

pdjv

One reservation - the new TTV8 is a direct injection engine. Couple that with EGR and you have the perfect recipe for intake port/intake valve issues down the road. After hearing how M-B treated owners of W211 cars with M273 engines, I wouldn't want to bet owners with the new direct injection engines will get any different treatment if they do suffer crud buildup in the intake area.

As for me, I'll stick with my NA 2011 E550.

J.M.G.

What exactly are you referring to? The M272 / M273 idle gear / balancing gear stuff from 2004-2006?

K-A

The E400 and 535i were tested side by side and the E400 was just a few tenths faster, and that was even at higher speeds, as they were pretty close early on. IMO considering the E400 will replace the E550 and the 535i is so close to the E400 in straight line performance while coming at a lower price point, it just makes the E400 look more like a pointless prospect. IMO they'll sell worse than E550's UNLESS they're priced no more than a few K more than the E350's, which then I can see them selling pretty decently.

J.M.G.

Did you check my links (which you quoted by the way)? I could list even more 535i vs E400 tests. The E400 was 2-3s faster to 200km/h than the 535i in every test.

K-A

This is a test I've seen. The E400 IS faster, but what I mean is it's not a super large difference especially at lower speeds (the difference gets higher at higher speeds which makes sense as the N55 I6 is more-so torque heavy and let's off a bit at higher RPM's) nor close to how much faster the current E550 is to the 535i, for example. Keep in mind the N55 in the 535i is underrated from the factory where dyno's show it makes closer to 320+ HP and in some cases over 330 Torque (at the crank) which is really close to the E400's output.

Edit: Yeah looks like we're quoting the same article. Indeed, it's faster, my point is in 0-60 times which in America is the biggest "tell" of speed, they seem to be about negligible, and while the E400 is faster, if it's priced near an E550 it isn't nearly "faster" enough to get people interested, IMO.

J.M.G.

Ah, I see. For me (and most car enthusiasts) 0-60 is not that important over here, as it is:

• pretty much traction limited and the differences are very small.
• very Driver dependent. Let's compare an E350 (W211) with an E550 (S211). If the E350 get's a jump start by just half a second or so, it takes the E550 up to 60mph or so to catch up.
• up to the gearbox and the drive ratio, which car will win.

I guess the 535i does "win" as it has by far the better gearbox. That ZF 8hp is just brilliant and so much better than the NAG2FE+ still in service with the E400. My money is on the brand new NAG3 9g-Tronic, which we will see next year.

So to see the true potential of a car we (in Germany) take the 100-200km/h figure (62-125mph) as it is usually not traction limited, the gearbox does not play the biggest role and mistakes of the driver can be eliminated due to the longer acceleration time...

K-A

Yeah good points. My point is that as the E400 is "faster", to how the American market gauges speed (justified by our congested urban cities, lower highway speed limits than some EU Countries, etc.), it might risk being judged as "not much faster" or "not faster enough" to justify the price premium.

Yeah, the ZF8 is a beautiful tranny. I can't wait to see what M-B does with the 9G, I hope it's on another level from the 7G.

petee1997

The E400 will replace the E350. Canada and many other countries will still have 4.6tt V8. Just more car for the same money.

J.M.G.

To mess everything up:

In Germany we can currently get E200 / E250 / E350 / E400 / E500 / E63 / E63S and a few Diesel as well (E200 / E220 / E250 / E300 / E350)...not to mention those Hybrids.

C280 Sport

Well since I am planning on replacing my 05 C240 4Matic with a E550 Coupe in the next couple years I hope this is not true
However if they do decide to do this then get me a E350 with loads of power and all the features of a E550 and I will be very happy

K-A

You have a source for that? Everything I've heard signifies it will replace the 550 and the E350 won't be going anywhere. If it does replace the E350 then along with the needed 9G tranny that's big (good) news for the E Class.

petee1997

My dealer.

pdjv

Exactly. And it wasn't just MBUSA. I've heard from one owner who had her car regularly serviced by the selling dealership which failed to tell her about the TSB while her car was still under warranty (and after the TSB was issued) even though the car was one that was in the group of cars affected. When the problem surfaced (after the car was out of warranty) the dealership and the regional rep both refused to help with the repairs.

Want to bet that someone whose TTV8 or TTV6 suddenly suffers from intake port/intake valve fouling discovered after the warranty expires won't get the same response? Remember, there have been problems with direct injection engines from other manufacturers so intake port/valve fouling in direct injection engines is is not a new issue.

PeterUbers

so would your advice be to everyone not to ever buy a direct injection engine, ever? Not exactly clear on what your final opinion is.

pdjv

Not saying never buy a car with a direct injection engine. What I'm trying to say is that direct injection has many benefits, but it's part of an overall system, and it's not clear what has/can be done to address the impact of Exhaust Gas Recirculation when the fuel mixture no longer washes EGR crud off the port/valve. As early direct injection adopters learned the hard way, it takes time to build up enough crud to cause problems. Fixing the problem is expensive and time-consuming.

Bottom line: Mercedes-Benz may have applied their engineering talent to solve the EGR problem in direct injection engines but early buyers of Mercedes-Benz cars with TT engines are a lot like beta testers - I wish them good luck, but I'll wait for a fully proven product.

Oh, and technically Mercedes-Benz has already dropped the E550 - the current car would be more accurately called the E460TT.

J.M.G.

Well, in Germany MB does pay for the M 272 / M 273 gear up to eight years (!), even if the car has not been serviced by the dealership.

Regarding the E 550 BiTurbo. You do not have to go that far. Just think about the drive chain problems - to be exactly the tensioner and check valve problems...

alsyli

And it would make more sense for the TT V6 to replace the E350, no? The twin-turbo only makes a little more power than the V6. I'm assuming MB will offer a NA 3.0L V6 and a TT V6 and will kill off the 3.5L fairly quickly....

K-A

I wouldn't put much stock into that happening soon. The N/A 3.5 will have to be gone by the W213 I'd think. But I doubt it's going anywhere for the W212 run.

Tjdehya

A 402hp car can not be replaced by a 330hp car.
The E400 is not "replacing" the E550. The E550 is just "gone" and thats it... end of story... not getting replaced.
The E400 is "new" Its just happens to be coming in when they are getting rid of the E550.
Or if you wanted, you could say that Mercedes is selling the E400 "in lieu of" the E550.
But the E400 is not even close to being considered as a replacement.

pdjv

Sounds like Mercedes-Benz places more emphasis on their reputation in Europe, but Mercedes-Benz USA appears to have let the brand down. Owners of cars affected by the gear issue filed a class action lawsuit. MBUSA contended that the problems occurred AFTER the warranty expired. The court agreed and the lawsuit was dismissed leaving owners with no recourse but to pay for the repairs on their own. Had I been one of the affected owners, I'd have been very tempted to park my car outside a dealership with a large sign detailing how MBUSA screwed owners.

hyperion667

I like cheese