Are Mercedes depreciations the worst?
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Joined: Sep 2013
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2013 ML 550, CLK63 AMG, 2012 E350 4MATIC
Your opinion on what is "value" can be vastly different on what someone else considers a good value. A car is never an investment, it's an expense. If you could afford to lose $30K every 2 years on a car you would but you can only afford to lose $15K and you rather give up on the new car smell of a Camry and spend it on a used MB. Nothing wrong with that but the depreciation rate at 3-6 years is not much better than it is from 0-3 years.
There is an initial hit of 10% just by driving it off the lot but after that the rate is largely linear for the next 5 years (http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/ho...fographic.html ) or 100,000 miles (http://jalopnik.com/a-simple-trick-t...our-1489099678). I'm willing to pay that 10% for the new car smell, for the notion that no other person drove the car before (as naive as that might be: http://jalopnik.com/meet-the-amateur...ew-b-513809077) getting a car exactly the way I want it without option sacrifices and getting the latest and greatest that automotive technology has to offer.
Actually, my wife will drive the E and I'll continue to drive my piece of crap ford suv with 150kmi on it. It's not what I can afford(my daughters at a boarding school that costs me an E350 a year...probably not a great investment either), it's how I was taught I guess...I'd definitely rather blow it on my kid than the latest and greatest auto tech. Either way we're fueling the economy....
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From: DFW, TX
2014 E350 Wagon, 2025 GLC 350e, 2026 E53 Wagon
Well, using my logic I can drive both my 63 AMG as a weekender, and a 11 e350 as a daily driver for the same cost as a new E350 so I guess that's what I'll do!
Actually, my wife will drive the E and I'll continue to drive my piece of crap ford suv with 150kmi on it. It's not what I can afford(my daughters at a boarding school that costs me an E350 a year...probably not a great investment either), it's how I was taught I guess...I'd definitely rather blow it on my kid than the latest and greatest auto tech. Either way we're fueling the economy....
Actually, my wife will drive the E and I'll continue to drive my piece of crap ford suv with 150kmi on it. It's not what I can afford(my daughters at a boarding school that costs me an E350 a year...probably not a great investment either), it's how I was taught I guess...I'd definitely rather blow it on my kid than the latest and greatest auto tech. Either way we're fueling the economy....
And it is precisely about what we can afford. You chose to spend money on education for your kids over spending it on a new E-class because your budget did not allow for both and you made a choice. Whether it's a wise or unwise choice is irrelevant, it was a choice forced upon you by financial limitations. There are a fortunate/harder working/better positioned individuals who can afford both a new E-class and an Ivy League education.
I have co-workers who rather live in a McMansion and never go anywhere, I rather travel to Europe 3 times a year with my family to run a coupe marathons and blow more on travel than what someone spends on a used E-class and live in a more modest home. It's all about personal choices and preferences. And one person's choice is not necessarily better than another's it's just different.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
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2013 ML 550, CLK63 AMG, 2012 E350 4MATIC
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S213 E450 4Matic, W111 220SE - prior cars: 3x W212, W210 E55 AMG, W202 C43 AMG, W126 300SE
harder working... 
...and I suppose an oligocracy can look democratic.
Sometimes it's not so bad being single, I can drive what I want and travel if I want, or just save money if I want, as I am more than happy with what is actually affordable. Sometimes that all goes away when the household changes.
Regarding diesels, I do think they carry higher lease residuals, anyway.
...and I suppose an oligocracy can look democratic.Sometimes it's not so bad being single, I can drive what I want and travel if I want, or just save money if I want, as I am more than happy with what is actually affordable. Sometimes that all goes away when the household changes.
Regarding diesels, I do think they carry higher lease residuals, anyway.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 971
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From: DFW, TX
2014 E350 Wagon, 2025 GLC 350e, 2026 E53 Wagon
I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply you or anyone else wasn't hard working or got where they are without merit. I simply tried to cover all bases and instead of calling people with a higher income who can swing the expense of new cars and private schooling simply lucky I added that they might also be harder working or in a profession with better earning potential to make what they make.
Most participants on this board are going to be hard working high earning individuals in the top 5% of all American households. Some might be top 2%, some can be top 1%. We're still the "haves" any way you slice it and it is a first world problem having to choose between a new E-class or private schooling for your kid.
I have a friend who just quit his very nice software engineering position and became a ski bum in Colorado because he rather make nothing and enjoy the slopes than make more money than he knows what to do with. To each their own.
Based on this study, they actually do, at least in the US: http://www.tepper.cmu.edu/news-multi...gas/index.aspx So I stand corrected.
Most participants on this board are going to be hard working high earning individuals in the top 5% of all American households. Some might be top 2%, some can be top 1%. We're still the "haves" any way you slice it and it is a first world problem having to choose between a new E-class or private schooling for your kid.
Sometimes it's not so bad being single, I can drive what I want and travel if I want, or just save money if I want, as I am more than happy with what is actually affordable. Sometimes that all goes away when the household changes.
Regarding diesels, I do think they carry higher lease residuals, anyway.
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Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Boston Area
2021 Mojave Silver E450, 2024 Black on Black Jaguar F-pace P400, 2011 335d (RIP), 2010 E350 (sold)
WRONG. the best resale value brand is toyota/lexus. german cars are for the most part foolish purchases, all things considered. a higher price is paid for the "look & feel" and for status. taking into consideration the long term maintenance costs (think bmw, audi, and vw) and the fact that north america does not have an autobahn equivalent - they are idiotic. americans lease german cars because they can't afford to buy them new.
I just love how people justify their decisions to themselves (or their wives).
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 971
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From: DFW, TX
2014 E350 Wagon, 2025 GLC 350e, 2026 E53 Wagon
WRONG. the best resale value brand is toyota/lexus. german cars are for the most part foolish purchases, all things considered. a higher price is paid for the "look & feel" and for status. taking into consideration the long term maintenance costs (think bmw, audi, and vw) and the fact that north america does not have an autobahn equivalent - they are idiotic. americans lease german cars because they can't afford to buy them new.
If you lease because you can't afford to buy you're doing it wrong... The 3 times I leased I did it because it gave me a guaranteed resale value that was artificially raised by the manufacturer's captive finance company and I thought I would come out ahead by betting on a higher actual depreciation and the money factors were stupid low, again thanks to subvented lease offers from the manufacturer. I did a third party buyout on one of my leases as the residual value was lower than what I could get for the car myself so while I made a wrong bet I came out OK thanks to the practically free money I got thanks to the low money factor.
I purchased my last two cars, including the E-class because I'm planning to keep them longer than 3 years and the residual wasn't particularly good and the money factor was not competitive with conventional finance plus in Texas you get screwed on a lease due to the way tax is paid unless you can get some tax trade-in allowance credit from the manufacturer if they just got a huge number of lease returns where they can offset the tax obligations thanks to those.
Every purchase/lease is different and unique but to think someone leases because they can't afford to buy is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard...
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 278
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From: San Diego, CA
2014 Sport White on black
If it bothers you as much as I, then purchase used with the lowest miles. I learned a long time ago to never buy a new car because of the terrible depreciation. When I purchased my second MBZ, I purchased used and saved 14K. When I sold it when the warranty ended, I felt I saved the most money.
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 355
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2013 ML 550, CLK63 AMG, 2012 E350 4MATIC
If it bothers you as much as I, then purchase used with the lowest miles. I learned a long time ago to never buy a new car because of the terrible depreciation. When I purchased my second MBZ, I purchased used and saved 14K. When I sold it when the warranty ended, I felt I saved the most money.
If you could AFFORD a new car, you'd buy one regardless of depreciation, because that's what rich people do. Buying a used car is a way for a camry owner to drive a MB, when they would actually be better off in a camry, just sayin.
Being wealthy and frugal is somehow not as smart as being wealthy and happily throwing money away.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 971
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From: DFW, TX
2014 E350 Wagon, 2025 GLC 350e, 2026 E53 Wagon
But according to one person here you didn't save a lot of money because your depreciation on a used car is the same as his depreciation on a new one!(??)
If you could AFFORD a new car, you'd buy one regardless of depreciation, because that's what rich people do. Buying a used car is a way for a camry owner to drive a MB, when they would actually be better off in a camry, just sayin.
Being wealthy and frugal is somehow not as smart as being wealthy and happily throwing money away.
If you could AFFORD a new car, you'd buy one regardless of depreciation, because that's what rich people do. Buying a used car is a way for a camry owner to drive a MB, when they would actually be better off in a camry, just sayin.
Being wealthy and frugal is somehow not as smart as being wealthy and happily throwing money away.
I must have really struck a nerve...Seriously, there are benefits to buying a new car vs. buying a used one, I posted plenty, and to me it has nothing to do with the prestige of owning a new car, I couldn't care less what others think about what I drive. Last time I wanted a blue xDrive 6-speed manual BMW E90 with folding rear seats in Texas. Good luck finding one used! This time I wanted an E350 wagon that was not white on beige and was fully loaded. Again, good luck finding one used. Whether the cost/benefit is worth it to you or anyone is an individual's choice and decision largely limited by priorities, budget and finances. If that truth offends you, I don't know what to say...
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Joined: Jan 2014
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E350
I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply you or anyone else wasn't hard working or got where they are without merit. I simply tried to cover all bases and instead of calling people with a higher income who can swing the expense of new cars and private schooling simply lucky I added that they might also be harder working or in a profession with better earning potential to make what they make.
Most participants on this board are going to be hard working high earning individuals in the top 5% of all American households. Some might be top 2%, some can be top 1%. We're still the "haves" any way you slice it and it is a first world problem having to choose between a new E-class or private schooling for your kid.
I have a friend who just quit his very nice software engineering position and became a ski bum in Colorado because he rather make nothing and enjoy the slopes than make more money than he knows what to do with. To each their own.
Based on this study, they actually do, at least in the US: http://www.tepper.cmu.edu/news-multi...gas/index.aspx So I stand corrected.
Most participants on this board are going to be hard working high earning individuals in the top 5% of all American households. Some might be top 2%, some can be top 1%. We're still the "haves" any way you slice it and it is a first world problem having to choose between a new E-class or private schooling for your kid.
I have a friend who just quit his very nice software engineering position and became a ski bum in Colorado because he rather make nothing and enjoy the slopes than make more money than he knows what to do with. To each their own.
Based on this study, they actually do, at least in the US: http://www.tepper.cmu.edu/news-multi...gas/index.aspx So I stand corrected.
This is one of the more arrogant misguided and down right snobby comments i have ever read. Top five percent of all Americans? Something tells me the true top five percent are not on line discussing the depreciation of thier E class mercedes, or any mercedes for that matter. I am not blessed to even pretend that I might be in the top 20%, but I can assure you that I could buy an E class new and continue to put my child through private school without a problem. My choice to buy a used vehicle is based on my personal belief in my finances which is what everyone on here has done with thier purchase. People make car purchases based on thier own needs and situations. I personally refuse to pay more for a vehicle than my first house cost. I cannot reconcile that in my mind so I refuse to do so. My wife decided she wanted a mercedes so I told her what i would do and we got what we as a couple decided was appropriate. For anyone to come on a public forum and be so pretentious as to assume why someone makes a purchase, or how they decide upon a purchase is actually a bit sad. And if you are truly in the top five percent of all Americans and you have this kind of attitude or thought process, it definately explains why the country is becoming, as you say a country of "have and have not's".
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2009
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From: So Cal
2010 C300 & 2014 E350
For depreciation calculation, do you calculate the price you paid before tax or after tax?
For example, if the car cost $50K MSRP and you paid out the door taxes and fees $54.5K, is your depreciation calculated from the $50K or $54.5K?
For example, if the car cost $50K MSRP and you paid out the door taxes and fees $54.5K, is your depreciation calculated from the $50K or $54.5K?
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Joined: Sep 2013
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2013 ML 550, CLK63 AMG, 2012 E350 4MATIC
you always know what to say, and you always make assumptions about other peoples finances based on YOUR rationalization for buying new! You say repeatedly that you don't care about others opinions, yet you express negative opinions about others for making what (to them) are very rational decisions about the value of these vehicles. I mean to paraphrase, anyone who buys a used MB is simply a brand-*****...
Everyone wants to be an expert, and you obviously spend countless hours pouring over the every financial facet of these cars...and you make an excellent case for your buying and leasing new...but it simply comes down to YOU not wanting to buy a preowned car(and you have said as much). I'll gleefully call you car-wise and dollar-foolish. You can feel free to call me a budget challenged brand *****, I doubt either of us knows much about the other.
Everyone wants to be an expert, and you obviously spend countless hours pouring over the every financial facet of these cars...and you make an excellent case for your buying and leasing new...but it simply comes down to YOU not wanting to buy a preowned car(and you have said as much). I'll gleefully call you car-wise and dollar-foolish. You can feel free to call me a budget challenged brand *****, I doubt either of us knows much about the other.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 971
Likes: 182
From: DFW, TX
2014 E350 Wagon, 2025 GLC 350e, 2026 E53 Wagon
This is one of the more arrogant misguided and down right snobby comments i have ever read. Top five percent of all Americans? Something tells me the true top five percent are not on line discussing the depreciation of thier E class mercedes, or any mercedes for that matter. I am not blessed to even pretend that I might be in the top 20%, but I can assure you that I could buy an E class new and continue to put my child through private school without a problem. My choice to buy a used vehicle is based on my personal belief in my finances which is what everyone on here has done with thier purchase. People make car purchases based on thier own needs and situations. I personally refuse to pay more for a vehicle than my first house cost. I cannot reconcile that in my mind so I refuse to do so. My wife decided she wanted a mercedes so I told her what i would do and we got what we as a couple decided was appropriate. For anyone to come on a public forum and be so pretentious as to assume why someone makes a purchase, or how they decide upon a purchase is actually a bit sad. And if you are truly in the top five percent of all Americans and you have this kind of attitude or thought process, it definately explains why the country is becoming, as you say a country of "have and have not's".
The three brands with the highest House Hold Income were:
Porsche: $187,705
Mercedes-Benz: $162,824
Audi: $153,746
Jaguar: $150,587
BMW: $148,992
Lexus: $141,355
We should mention the average household income of a ForbesAutos user is $187,215. 81% are male compared to only 19% female. and the average age is 41"
I'm sorry that the truth hurts but Mercedes owners are most likely the top 5% if not the top 1% of earners in the US. If you don't get this and acknowledge it you're just plain ignorant of the facts. Then again, you can't even spell "their"...
you always know what to say, and you always make assumptions about other peoples finances based on YOUR rationalization for buying new! You say repeatedly that you don't care about others opinions, yet you express negative opinions about others for making what (to them) are very rational decisions about the value of these vehicles. I mean to paraphrase, anyone who buys a used MB is simply a brand-*****...
Everyone wants to be an expert, and you obviously spend countless hours pouring over the every financial facet of these cars...and you make an excellent case for your buying and leasing new...but it simply comes down to YOU not wanting to buy a preowned car(and you have said as much). I'll gleefully call you car-wise and dollar-foolish. You can feel free to call me a budget challenged brand *****, I doubt either of us knows much about the other.
Everyone wants to be an expert, and you obviously spend countless hours pouring over the every financial facet of these cars...and you make an excellent case for your buying and leasing new...but it simply comes down to YOU not wanting to buy a preowned car(and you have said as much). I'll gleefully call you car-wise and dollar-foolish. You can feel free to call me a budget challenged brand *****, I doubt either of us knows much about the other.
Last edited by GregTR; Jan 2, 2014 at 11:04 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2014
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E350
"Forbes did a whole comparison filled with demographic information of luxury car buyers.
The three brands with the highest House Hold Income were:
Porsche: $187,705
Mercedes-Benz: $162,824
Audi: $153,746
Jaguar: $150,587
BMW: $148,992
Lexus: $141,355
We should mention the average household income of a ForbesAutos user is $187,215. 81% are male compared to only 19% female. and the average age is 41"
I'm sorry that the truth hurts but Mercedes owners are most likely the top 5% if not the top 1% of earners in the US. If you don't get this and acknowledge it you're just plain ignorant of the facts. Then again, you can't even spell "their"...
I never assumed anything about anyone. You just chose to read your own little world and interpretation into my comments which actually says more about you than me. Anyone who buys a used MB over a new Camry is smart in my books. I'd take a 3 year old MB over a brand new Toyota any day of the week. Anyone who buys a new car is spending money on something that is a luxury! That is what luxury means. To spend money on something that makes no economic/financial sense for the sake of doing it. If you choose not to do it, it's your choice but just like my "choice" of not buying an E63 and your "choice" of buying a used car is rooted in financial limitations regardless how you rationalize it. Buying a Mercedes will never be a rational decision, new or used, there are far cheaper far more rational alternatives lying way further to the left on the curve of the rate of diminishing returns...
The three brands with the highest House Hold Income were:
Porsche: $187,705
Mercedes-Benz: $162,824
Audi: $153,746
Jaguar: $150,587
BMW: $148,992
Lexus: $141,355
We should mention the average household income of a ForbesAutos user is $187,215. 81% are male compared to only 19% female. and the average age is 41"
I'm sorry that the truth hurts but Mercedes owners are most likely the top 5% if not the top 1% of earners in the US. If you don't get this and acknowledge it you're just plain ignorant of the facts. Then again, you can't even spell "their"...
I never assumed anything about anyone. You just chose to read your own little world and interpretation into my comments which actually says more about you than me. Anyone who buys a used MB over a new Camry is smart in my books. I'd take a 3 year old MB over a brand new Toyota any day of the week. Anyone who buys a new car is spending money on something that is a luxury! That is what luxury means. To spend money on something that makes no economic/financial sense for the sake of doing it. If you choose not to do it, it's your choice but just like my "choice" of not buying an E63 and your "choice" of buying a used car is rooted in financial limitations regardless how you rationalize it. Buying a Mercedes will never be a rational decision, new or used, there are far cheaper far more rational alternatives lying way further to the left on the curve of the rate of diminishing returns...
There you go assuming again, but those average incomes do not come close to the top 5-1% of Americans. Those numbers you provided are for average hard working people who happen to have have good salaries. The truth never hurts, you learn from the truth and I cherish learing experiences, this just happens not to be one.
Last edited by squareman; Jan 2, 2014 at 11:20 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 971
Likes: 182
From: DFW, TX
2014 E350 Wagon, 2025 GLC 350e, 2026 E53 Wagon
There you go assuming again, but those average incomes do not come close to the top 5-1% of Americans. Those numbers you provided are for average hard working people who happen to have have good salaries. The truth never hurts, you learn form the truth and I cherish learing experiences, this just happens ot to be one.
http://bit.ly/JworRL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluen..._United_States
Last edited by GregTR; Jan 2, 2014 at 11:22 AM.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2014
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E350
Yup, it's official. You're either ignorant, delusional or plain dumb.
http://bit.ly/JworRL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluen..._United_States
http://bit.ly/JworRL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluen..._United_States
while I have to conceed your numbers are not as far off as I had thought according to this site http://www.upi.com/Business_News/201...8171378882800/ which I trust more than wikipedia, the numbers are larger than what you provided. The range is also very large 161-394 is a very large range of household income. It's interesting to know that the census believes me to be in the top 5% household income.
Last edited by squareman; Jan 2, 2014 at 11:36 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 971
Likes: 182
From: DFW, TX
2014 E350 Wagon, 2025 GLC 350e, 2026 E53 Wagon
while I have to conceed your numbers are not as far off as I had thought according to this site http://www.upi.com/Business_News/201...8171378882800/ which I trust more than wikipedia, the numbers are larger than what you provided. The range is also very large 167-364 is a very large range of household income. It's interesting to know that the census believes me to be in the top 5% household income.
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E350
I do not ever mind admitting if I am wrong, and yes I get worked up when I read condescending comments. Delivery could definitely be improved.
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Posts: 405
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S213 E450 4Matic, W111 220SE - prior cars: 3x W212, W210 E55 AMG, W202 C43 AMG, W126 300SE
I'd be more interested in wealth rather than income in the context of who buys what - as more than a few high salaries I know seem to be able to spend it all without wincing, but would be SOL if they lost 6 months of income.
When I see the little old lady in my area who has a showroom looking 560SEC that she undoubtedly bought new, somehow it speaks more of money to me than a new car.
When I see the little old lady in my area who has a showroom looking 560SEC that she undoubtedly bought new, somehow it speaks more of money to me than a new car.
Last edited by fintail; Jan 2, 2014 at 09:42 PM.
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BMW 5er
Apparently, if you believe what people post over on bimmerfest, people buy because they can't afford to lease. Also, if you buy, you are trying to "scam" the system and you shouldn't be driving German cars because (get this) you can't afford it!
I just love how people justify their decisions to themselves (or their wives).
I just love how people justify their decisions to themselves (or their wives).
this is news to me. sounds just like something a bimmertard would say though.
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 703
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From: Boston Area
2021 Mojave Silver E450, 2024 Black on Black Jaguar F-pace P400, 2011 335d (RIP), 2010 E350 (sold)
Actually, most of the people over there are normal and in fact good people. Helpful and usually happy to share their experience. A few however can make you shake your head to say the least. Probably the same as on most car enthusiast sites.
