Mercedes-Benz Revives Its Inline Six Engine

"The gasoline-powered straight six, likely to arrive with the 2017 Mercedes-Benz E-class, displaces 3.0-liters and has an output as high as 400 hp with turbocharging. There will also be a turbodiesel version displacing 2.9 liters, which should top 300 hp in top spec"

 

Very interesting article ! A 2.9 L I6 turbo diesel with 300 HP sounds very exciting ! In the meantime, I will enjoy my E350BT.

 

I fully agree, we both have the last of the great V6 Diesel power train so let's enjoy the FE + performance till 2017 when the itch for a new vehicle will likely get us looking for a change.

Cheers

 

Aren't they going to a 3.0 TT V6 for 2015 MY? Why would they come out with a new engine then replace it 2 years later?

 

^ the upcoming TT V6 is based on the current NA V6. i wouldn't be surprised if they replaced that to setup what the article is stating would be a production efficient lineup from L4 to L6 to V8 (2 L4's in V).

the biggest question is always which engines will make it to north america. i would bet on hybrid and PHEV versions being pushed pretty hard - this falls in line with the liberal politics du jour. they have been frustrated with diesel's lack of subsidies/incentives.

 

Historically Mercedes has always been in the forefront with Diesel (luxury) vehicles in North America unlike BMW or Audi.

However both BMW and Audi offers 6 cylinder Diesels to compete against the E class so it depends on how well the sales of the E250BT are compared to the previous E350BT and the current competitors.

So there's high hopes that the new 2.9L Diesel will make it here. I don't see why not since the E250BT made it.

But to meet ever demanding FE standards the, my fear is that there's room for only one.

Also getting certification for a new powertrain is expensive.

 

Current competitors' Diesel powertrain specs:

BMW 535d (North America):
3.0L inline TwinPower Turbo
255HP/414 lb-ft
FE: 37mpg Highway
0~60 mph: 5.7 sec.
Note: The 535D in NA has the same power as the 530D in Europe.

BMW 535d (Europe):
3.0L inline TwinPower Turbo
308HP/464 lb-ft
FE: 42mpg (5.6L/100KM)
0~100KM/Hr: 5.1 sec (X Drive).

Audi A6TDI 3.0 V6 Turbocharged:
240HP/428lb-ft
FE: 38mpg
0~60 mph: 5.5 sec.

So the new Mercedes inline 6 Turbo Diesel will at least be well placed to compete with BMW and Audi.

 

well, a few things to consider:

-the e-class is not really a true sports sedan on par with audi and bmw. they compete in the luxury segment, but that's about it. they have a slant towards refinement and safety, where the others spend more money on developing performance and handling. maybe this is starting to change? perhaps benz knows that younger buyers in the world's second largest auto market want performance out of germany.

-the more performance, the lower the FE (without going electric or hybrid). even if you can squeeze better numbers on the highway, the vehicle will return pitiful economy when pushed/enjoyed - and that is something most people will end up doing with a good dose of engine power. if you go for FE, you ask yourself "why did i buy a performance sedan?" and if you push the car and consume a lot of fuel, you ask yourself "why did i buy a performance sedan?" it's kind of a catch-22.

-the price point becomes cost prohibitive for fuel savings. i think we can already see this with the all the executive sedan diesels. i just don't see a lot of people in the US passing on the A6 3.0T or 535i m-sport or E350 sport for more mpg's. i am starting to wonder if the E250 is a one-and-done. they really didn't give it much advertising. it was snuck in here.

 

Personally, I would love a 300hp / almost 400lbft torque diesel. I get why MB brought the 250BT here (I imagine mostly for FE and that they're already making it for the European market). But here's what I don't get: what are 250BT owners gonna feel like when an "I-6" TD lands here with these power numbers, with an MSRP equal to that which they paid for the 250BT? That can't be good for their resale value, can it?

I know as a country we're looking for better FE numbers, but Americans like power. But paying $55k USD large for a 4 banger? I know they drive it all over in Europe - but do 250BT taxi drivers pay the eqivalent of $55K USD for their taxi?

Oh well - just my little rant. You may continue with your daily routine.....

 

^ insane. such an engine would be priced accordingly, more than the current A6 and 535d. that is, if it even is offered in North America which you do not know at this point.

people pay a lot for 528i and A6 2.0T with options, both have 4 cyl.

 

MBUSA has never really marketed their diesels here in the last 20 years in my opinion. I don't recall any in the late 90s when the W210 came out, CDIs in the W211 or the bluetecs in the SUVs in E. Never understood this but I guess they assume diesel in a niche market and the people that want them will find them?

 

Would be interesting to see what would happen. You could argue the V6 lost resale value when the I4 came our due to better FE? Depends if there are more diesel buyers in the market for FE vs. power...

 

RE: marketing... right on. I mean, I get the draw of the E250. There's no other comparable car available right now. Hybrids have issues with folding rear seats because of the battery packs. That, and they tend to be FWD and a bit smaller and slower with similar MPG. A6 and 535d are higher price and less FE, and a bit less reliable.

But you would think such a tidy package would get some push. There was nothing but silence on release day. I think I saw one thing on MB Google+ talking about the EPA rating.

 

Agreed. I think the 528i is a rediculous car for what it costs. I just feel that when people are looking at a $50k-$60k car, there are certain things that should come with the package - and IMO, a 6 cylinder engine is high on the list. I guess to some degree it's similar to the argument some make about MB TEx vs. leather - some have to have leather at this price point, others are okay with the MB Tex.

Personally, the move to a 4 cylinder diesel has had me in a bad mood since it came out. I'm pursuing a E350BT but the refreshed car is getting to me (EClassy - so far the pics of your car in particular are the ones that get me thinking about going for a 2014 car, but as I'd prefer a 6 cylinder that would mean staying with a 2012 or 2013, which is a car I love anyways).

I'm 41yo and I've only bought one car new - a 1997 Acura 3.0CL. At the time I had enough money for either a 4 cylinder w/ leather or a 6 cylinder with cloth. I took the latter and ran it for 13 years and 220k miles, and never once looked back. I guess to me a 6 cylinder is at the top of the "must have" list.

 

As a recent E250 buyer, I picked the diesel for the fuel economy.

I was picking out all the options for my new E class last summer and one choice was gas V6 with 21/30 mpg vs diesel twin-turbo 4 with 28/45. Indications were that the diesel had plenty of power, so I went with the better mileage car.

Upon getting the E250 I am very happy with it. I don't really care about 0-60 (within reason). I do care about passing and getting up to speed on the freeway and the E250 is very good at those. This car was plenty of fun on the autobahn stepping on the accelerator, moving over to the fast lane, and taking it up to 120 mph.

I have no idea if the E250 will sell well for MB, I'm just sharing my thought process and experience here.

 

The # of cylinders and the displacement should not be a factor at all. It should be based on the power output and how that power is delivered (i.e. HP/Torque curve etc). I bet that acura V6 probably made around 200 hp and probably didn't hit peak hp/torque till somewhere around 5k rpm or higher. A modern day 2.0 T 4 cylinder can easily surpass that power/torque and at much lower rpms making it feel like an even stronger engine then the specs would suggest.

Go drive a 528i with its puny 2 liter 4 cylinder. It's a much more powerful and just as smooth as that acura V6.

In many other countries, motors between 1 to 2 liters and 3 or 4 cylinders are standard. V6 and V8's are rare.

 

yup.

to be exact, the 528i has more HP and TQ than the 97 CL 3.0, and gets to 60mph in less than a full second.

 

me too. i have no idea why people get hung up on thinking that diesels in luxury cars ought to be all about performance. traditionally, diesels are not produced for that reason at all - they are best suited for shipping and delivery tasks, where business profits depend on controlling costs. my household finances concur - i need to control my fuel costs to make my live/work situation pencil out.

it's a different story in europe where petrol costs are high. trust me, europeans would rather have gassers and lower fuel costs over performance diesels.

so my advice to the guys on here who "require" 6-cylinders: enjoy the relatively low cost of fuel and get a performance gasoline model, while you still can.

 

Or . . .
Buy a good used 2005-2006 W-211 E-320 CDI.
There are usually 60 or more available throughout the US for $10K and up and are IMHO
a much better car than either the 2007-2013 V6 diesels or the new 2014 BT.

Of interest here is the March issue of Consumer Reports .
See page 55.
When someone is paying $53K and more for a four cylinder that is as slow as they are
(quarter mile in a poor 16.3 seconds) I don't see that MBZ has gone the correct route!

Add to that are: Run flat tires, No shift lever on the counsel, Add blue fluid required, and
the DPF are a few of the reasons to pass on MBZs latest diesel offering for N A.
F E is indeed slightly better, but not that much better than my nine year old E-320 CDI.
After driving my diesel for over two years and almost 50K miles, I feel that anyone
finding and buying a good used 2005-2006 W-211 CDI will be happier in the
long run and save anywheres up to $35K.

BTW, I have now owned eleven MBZ diesels beginning with a 1961 190 D/b.
And this W-211 CDI is the best of them all IMHO.

Do not make the mistake of lining up next to a I-6 CDI for a little stop light contest.
That is a big mistake. And when on the highway, the differences are even greater.

See my Fuelly comments below.
Mine has dynoed more than the advertised horsepower and torque. See below.

After having mine now for the last two years and almost 50K miles, a difference
of at least 1.4 seconds in the quarter mile is simply too much to swallow.

I agree with the person above who states that they think the W-212 BT will be short lived.
Weighing over 4300 pounds and all wheel drive with only 2.1 liters,
that is simply not enough power.

My choice now if I had $60K to spare and just had to have a new diesel would be a new a 535d.
I almost bought a new 335d in 2009 and that engine is really something!

I wish my old CR 3.222 straight six had two turbos like the current 3 liter Bimmer diesel.



Derrel

 

good lord, do you post this garbage from a text file into every forum? nobody wants a beaten down 10-year old car that smells like crap.

wow, your 15.3 seconds in the quarter mile is BLAZING FAST!!!!

ain't nobody better challenge the E320 CDI to stoplight race, unless you're totally sure your whip can do 0-60mph in under 7 seconds!

CR gave the E250 a very good review and rating, by the way.

 

It is funny how CR rates the E250 as a 98 score, second to Tesla, the highest score it has ever given, and people take ONE line out of the whole article to claim the E250 sux.

I had a W211 and now W212 and soon a 2011 W212 E350BT, the W212 is much more a solid car, and most ppl are just as passionate about the E350 BT as you are of your I6. Your car may be a good buy and smart for $10k, but its not for someone who has $35k. Its a old outdated Mercedes. I like the look of the W211, Mine was white sport with pano, its the "classic" MB look of the time. Most ppl on here wont keep the car after 50k mi worrying it will explode into pieces the day the warranty ends

But you should re-read the CR article. It basically says its the best car around. safe, quiet, high MPG, etc etc.

 

Yes, indeed they did. A 98.
I have subscribed to CR since the late 1950s, before you were born!
CR started publication the same year I did.

Was your BT nearly as costly as was the CR vehicle?
If it was, I saved over $40K by buying a better car used.
Gone are the days when I could buy a new MBZ diesel every two years.
BTW, my first new one was a '70 220D for only $4850.

Enjoy your new 'BT and it good to see you on Fuelly. You are one
of two there now and the other fellow is not getting nearly your F E.



Derrel

 

I have read and reread that article several time since receiving the March issue on January 30.

The W-211 E-350 diesel is not nearly as fine as are the older '05-'06 CDIs.
The CDI straight six is not only faster but more economical and much easier to work on.
Many who have had both prefer the stronger 5G transmission to the later 7Gs.
Because the V6 is smaller and has the DPF, performance and fuel economy are down.

Many say that working on the pano S/R is expensive. Good luck!

Don't understand how you or anyone else for that matter can say that the W-211 CDI is outdated? How so?

It still has the MBZ look and runs better than the 2007 and
later diesels and still uses less expensive 225/55-16 tires.
No Ad Blue fluid required and it still has a spare wheel and jack.
CDIs weigh several hundred pounds less and are faster and yet use less fuel
except for the new '14 BT.
Because they offer less performance than almost any diesels available new
today, I do not think MBZ will continue to be able to sell them here in N A.

How would you feel if you had one and someone with a new Passat TDI or Chevrolet
Cruze diesel would take you at a stoplight or going up a long grade?
For about the same purchase price, a new 535d is a much deal and more car.

These comments are from someone who has had eleven diesel MBZs since my first, a '61 190 Db.
Also owned two gassers, a 450 SE and a 450 SLC. Talk about expensive to run and keep running?



Derrel

 

> How would you feel if you had one and someone with a new Passat TDI or Chevrolet
Cruze diesel would take you at a stoplight or going up a long grade?

Do people really race at stoplights? Interesting....

 

hey troll, 14.8 seconds in the 1/4 mile and low-6 seconds to 60mph are still slow by today's performance standards. i've got a c-note that a honda civic si is still faster than your old smelly PoS E320 CDI half-chrysler.

but only a moron from murrieta would try to race an e-class diesel anyway.

enjoy the few years you have left alive, you trolling old f*ck. wouldn't your last days be better spent not trolling on the internet? oh wait, you live in murrieta, in the inland empire. my condolences.