AudiA4Turbo22

I feel the same way! I can't imagine how the E63 S-AMG would be, to think it has 150 more horsepower is just ridiculous.

2nice4me

Sorry i am not clear, i drive a significant amount in stop and go traffic so the car adapts the transmission to that type of driving causing the gas pedal to lag.

how does this tune overcome the adaptive learning, or doesn't it.

AudiA4Turbo22

Transmission adaptation is strictly controlled by the Transmission Control Unit (TCU). This is NOT a transmission tune, this is a tune for the Engine Control Unit (ECU). The throttle response is controlled by the ECU and the tune makes the throttle much more sensitive which in turn causes the transmission to downshift with less throttle effort but that's it. To get less laggy shifts from the transmission and less hunting for 7th gear you need a TCU tune which is not offered as of yet.

BMWtoAMG

Mine has been OE tuned since April. Pretty good value for the $$, and Jeremy is very responsive. It will have to do until a 'HP Tuners for MB' comes to market. Would love to VE tune that 273 engine and adjust shift points/times.

2nice4me

Thanks for the explanation Kirk!

SoCalCLK

Considering this tune. Going to Huntington Beach for the install would be very convenient!

5Hundred

i'm very interested in the ECU tune. Is there any way we can orchestrate a group package for members as ive seen it done in the past?

I have a w212 2010 E350 RWD and i'm a bit hesitant on spending 400-500+ for the tune up and flashloader (as much gains you will have with a V6 N/A engine)

Have there been occurrences of engine failures due to this modification? I know OE Tuning as a high end tuning company but i doubt if anything were to happen they would take any responsibility for it.. which is completely understandable.

SALES@OETUNING

Ok, for a group buy price will be $295 for tune & +$200 for flash loader. Tuned 4 map pack with flash loader is $495 shipped to all US 50 states. For a group buy to take place we will need 10x confirmed and fully paid orders.
We can start a list here:

1. 5Hundred
2. im.a.n3rd
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

albertb

What is the original tune price and original flash loader price?
Also what do you mean by 4 map pack?
Finally if we go back to stock, is it detectable at the dealership that a ECU flash took place?

I may be interested depending on the details.

Thanks!

SALES@OETUNING

The original price is $395 for tune only and $595 with flash loader including 4x map pack. You can always remove your tune and load a stock map for service and warranty concerns. The tune is undetectable with regular MB dealer diag tools (SDS & Xentry). The ECU must be sent with tuned map on it to Germany before any confirmation is decided either way. There is not a flash counter that counts the number of tuned maps you load.

im.a.n3rd

You can add me to the list. I've been wanting this for a while and missed the promotion you had in June.

dirtyguido

Ok so the flash loader does what - gives us the ability to switch between your tune and the Stock tune? If that's two maps what are the other 2? As in the 4 map pack.

Does it matter if you have an e350 or e550? I have a 2011 e550 4matic - with the NA motor?

Take care,

George

SALES@OETUNING

Added to list.

PM Sent. Group buy is for all 5.5L N/A 500/550s with M273 powertrain.

ss3964spd

Go for it George, let me know how it works out!

OET - will you share the information you sent George on the forum, or are there specifics involved that you prefer to keep confidential?

Dan

SALES@OETUNING

Not a problem. PM sent.

dirtyguido

I do have a question - I own a couple different android tablets. What's the difference between the flash loader, and the android setup?

Just trying to figure out the best option for me.

Other than that I'm game.....

Take care,

George

ss3964spd

Thanks for the information, Jeremy.

It's safe to say that all manufacturers want their engines to produce the max amount of Hp/Tq while using the least amount of fuel, meeting emissions standards, all while keeping reliability and longevity of the entire drive line high. It is therefore reasonable to assume that if MB could have eeked out an additional 20 or 30 wheel Hp/Tq (which works out to be a bit more at the crank) while not sacrificing the goals above they would have done so. One would be reasonable to assume, then, that there's a trade off somewhere.

On a N/A engine there's only a handful of ways to increase power; add displacement, add compression, alter valve timing and lift (to a point), increase breathing, add timing advance (to a point), and add fuel (to a point). Since no one is cracking open the engine the only thing left to fiddle with is timing and fuel, and possibly altering the cam timing.

My hesitation is 3 fold:

1) In the case of a ECU tune HP and TQ are increased by increasing (advancing) ignition timing and, I presume, by adding fuel. How well does the OE tune manage the ignition timing so that the engine is not constantly bumping against the knock sensors (which retards the timing), and how does it handle lower octane gas?

2) Did MB design the torque management curve to protect the transmission, drive shaft(s), differential(s), and drive axles, or did they design the TM curve only for delivering a smooth driving experience?

3) Finally, the emissions question. Any compromises there?

Dan

dirtyguido

I posted this in another thread where people were discussing sprint booster v/s OE tuning.

I'll put this out in the open here too bc it seems to mirror ss396's concerns and questions, AND leave it to the OE tuning guys to comment:

From what I understand OE Tuning does substantially more to the car than the sprint booster does.

All the sprint booster does is literally fool the car into thinking you have pressed the accelerator further than you actually have. You can achieve the same effect by kicking through the first 1/2" of pedal travel yourself.

Now as far as I know, the OE tune completely changes the driving dynamics of the car.

Besides a 5-10% gain in peak hp / torque which really only matters at the extremes and for dyno / e-racers who are obsessed with stats and theoretical track times etc.

The biggest difference is the modification of the torque management in the software. Sure the NA 550 makes 392hp and 400 something ft / lbs but in factory tune Mercedes decides when you can have it.

This is for two reasons - (maybe three).

First driving characteristics / refinement.

Mercedes doesn't want the car to launch violently or bang gears or get stupid sideways (even though I have a 4matic so I dunno if 4 wheel powerslides are theoretically possible)

So they dial out the torque at low rpms and in lower gears.

This allows your wife / grandmother etc to drive the car in a perfectly smooth refined manner regardless of the power and potential that is there. It also contributes to that feeling that at least I have of that you have to drive the car like you are mad at it to get the the performance you expect. Compared to a e60 bmw 550 which I had for a while the MB is tuned so conservatively that it's not even funny.

Second reason for this:

FUEL ECONOMY

Not that anyone buys an N/A e550 expecting stellar gas mileage - but making the car lethargic around town and hunt for 7th gear all the time allows it to get to the 17/18 mpg average rating. If the car came out of the hole like a raped ape and held gears etc you would prob avg something more around 12/15 mpg. Now honestly I don't care. If I was worried about my carbon footprint and fuel consumption I would have never purchased a mid size car with a 5.5l v8 in it.

But you know who does care? The government for one both in meeting CAFE standards and in dodging gas guzzler taxes. Apparently the whole v8 package wasn't that appealing to consumers to begin with - less than a 5% buy rate in the w212. So mb dropped it for 2015 entirely.

So so far we have two factors that encourage me to get the tune. - changing the cars characteristics from luxury car that can hold it's own on the autobahn to a much more performance oriented car at real world useable speeds.

Now we come to our third factor that is a maybe.

And that is to protect the drivetrain / transmission from all the violent launches and harsh shifts etc that I described before... It's not that the tune will hurt the car, but rather that the tune will enable the driver to abuse and stress the rest of the drivetrain in ways that were verboten in the MB factory tune.

I'm still on the fence about adding the tune to mine. I've got a few things I would like to do first but I would certainly consider it. Especially if I was inclined to order a sprint booster.

Take care,

George

dirtyguido

My theoretical answers. -

1) It doesn't handle low octane gas well at all. It shifts the range so that the car is tuned around at LEAST 91 octane - although on the east coast 93 is the standard. Sure the knock sensors will dumb down the party if they are going crazy, and maybe even put the car into limp mode. BUT.... You DON'T put regular or plus in a car with a tune.

2) That's the million dollar question - see my post above.

3) I don't think so - at least not for anyone that doesn't have a sniffer test. First emissions these days are all OBD controlled / measured. Second the tests are usually at idle or at a fixed rpm / speed. None of the emissions equipment is modified / removed / disabled in this tune (I believe), so that should be fine. - not like putting rear 02 sims in an LS powered GM car or bmw , and or writing them out of the code using HP tuners. Different ball game.

Take care,

George

albertb

You can count me in for one.

2nice4me

Add me to the list as well please.
E350 4matic
Pedal box installed

What would the price be with the android loader instead?

SALES@OETUNING

1. For optimized tuning, a map suited to the highest octane pump gas is recommended for best results. Based on knock sensor sensitivity and adaptive learning by the ECU, the vehicle will be able to select timing maps to suit the octane level running. These maps are optimized in the ecu tune. Limits for ignition and knock are kept in place so that the ECU can perform these functions correctly and ensure safe running.

2. There are many reasons why manufacturers have torque limits in place for Gasoline combustion engines. Safe guards to protect components, limit air flow, detect if the vehicle has rolled over or in an accident are just a few.

3. Part throttle fuel is not adjusted and all emissions functions of a stock vehicle are maintained.


Updated list:

1. 5Hundred
2. im.a.n3rd
3. albertb
4. 2nice4me
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dirtyguido

My next questions. I know the car is now tuned to run at LEAST 91 oct gas - here in the northeast we have 93 but i'd rather have the 2 octane points as a safeguard. BUT what happens when some jackass gas jockey (NJ is full serve only) messes up and drops a tank of 87 octane into it. Will the ECU still retard the timing to the point where the motor will feel substantially weaker but protect it? I know it will in stock form, but with new maps / parameters I dunno.

Second the "torque management" removal / modification scares me a bit with the e550 bc as you said it's been put in partly to safeguard components. I guess launching one of these cars hard on a regular basis with the torque management removed probably still wont be that good and idea right? With an e350 I wouldn't sweat it bc you would have to bolt on a supercharger to get to e550 power and they share a transmission. Do you know if the E63's run the SAME trans, or is it beefed up when it goes into an //AMG car?

Lastly - I expected as much that you would only have to add fuel at the top of the curve, - the ecu would add it at part throttle conditions based on its own calculations - you just had to extend the curve at the limit.

Take care,

George

ss3964spd

It is all very interesting.

TM probably isn't limited to only protecting the transmission, or smooth drivability, but also the rest of the drive line, such as the rubber couplers for the drive shaft(s) for instance. Maybe those components are beefed up for the AMG cars but without checking part numbers for all the components in the driveline we just don't know.

It is worth noting, though, that the E350 BT makes 400 pound feet of torque @ 1600 RPM.

I'd love to see the torque curve using stock ECU from idle to 2800 (I think I read that the N/A 5.5 makes peak Tq from 2800 to 4800) with the TM system engaged and then without it engaged, and then the same thing with an OET'd ECU.

As far as I am aware the ECU doesn't know a thing about what octane fuel is in the tank, it only knows what the knock sensors are telling it. The ECU is either going to let the engine run with the max advance in the map or it isn't. Does the stock ECU have different maps loaded at the same time for different grades of gas? If so, how does it decide which map to use? It would have to be based how on much time the knock sensors spend retarding the timing I'd think.

My apologies, Jeremy, I'm just one of those guys who like to know the why's and how's.

Dan

Jaab

Sounds great to me, as long as my transmission and CV joints can take it??? pm me, please! (I hope the tune is easily uploaded, I am kind of a moron. :P )