When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I have a 2010 W212 E350 Estate; purchased in Germany with Junge Sterne 2 year warranty (the pre-owned certified program guarantee)
Very, very minor issues in my first year as owner. Two stand out: GPS is frequently showing me OFF-ROAD and quite often, when not moving in traffic the car has a KICK, more like a jolt coming from the gearbox...
Two weeks ago I visited the local MB garage for a B5 service and, on advice from the receiving mechanic, I opted for customer-paid and not part of warranty new firmware of the gearbox and engine to resolve the issue.
More on the symptoms: driving as usual, but whenever there is a prolonged stop and car is in Direct (D), there would be a bang accompanied by the whole car jolting as if hit from the back by another vehicle. Even after months of this, my first instinct is still checking the rear view mirror if someone actually hit me...
Have been VERY alert to remember when it happens, but other than the 40+sec stop at Direct, there is little other (slope, angle of car, hot/cold weather, etc)
Normal B5 visit here costs CHF 900, for firmware and other recommendations, I paid little over CHF 2,000... So, next week I booked a return visit for them to fix it. Judging by the reluctance to take my appointment, I believe they have no clue what this is related to.
I will be seeking resolution of the GPS positioning anomaly and the gearbox and come to ask you guys 2 questions:
1) Is the gearbox problem something you have heard before? What are the possible causes for this and how worried should I be? Is gearbox replacement part of the CPO warranty?
2) Given that last time I paid *everything* they asked for and was reassured issues must be solved, should I expect to pay again for the second visit, or is this on the garage to fix their poor service the first time?
Any ideas and comments on the topic are more than welcome! Great fora, glad to finally join!!!
Well not quite sure what to say, I'll add my experience with my BMW and a ZF transmission.
With ZF/BMW this is known as the 2-1 slam and when it started happening to mine, it was only several months before the transmission failed completely.
My new E350 has been smooth as silk, sorry to hear of your issue, hopefully MB can correct it.
Bless your heart for this tip. I googled the 2-1 slam and found a BMW video which is showing *exactly* the problem I have, only mine is louder and more noticeable. Video here:
I have a 2010 E550 4Matic and have never had any issue like that. My car has 45,000 miles on it. I hope this gets fixed for you as it is not normal at all.
I have a 2010 E550 4Matic and have never had any issue like that. My car has 45,000 miles on it. I hope this gets fixed for you as it is not normal at all.
Benz bought back two 550s From me over a 5th to 4th gear downshift kick/slam. Your issue is not normal at all
One question... You feel this kick when your car is completely stopped or when you're rolling to a stop?
Most often when I have driven on the highway, get off it and stop to a halt at the first traffic light. Should the red last me over a minute, I'm most likely to get the kick. Ditto when driving in town and either hit traffic and stop or again, the red light lasting a bit longer. I have recorded countless times with my phone when at the red light - perhaps there is a sensor that tells the car to behave and never happens on camera
Reading /digging in the right direction (downshift 2-1 7G-tronic) is most helpful and threads are in abundance: no way MB dealer can say "this never happened before". Or, so I wish...
Most often when I have driven on the highway, get off it and stop to a halt at the first traffic light. Should the red last me over a minute, I'm most likely to get the kick. Ditto when driving in town and either hit traffic and stop or again, the red light lasting a bit longer. I have recorded countless times with my phone when at the red light - perhaps there is a sensor that tells the car to behave and never happens on camera
Reading /digging in the right direction (downshift 2-1 7G-tronic) is most helpful and threads are in abundance: no way MB dealer can say "this never happened before". Or, so I wish...
Gotcha... 2-1 kick is well reported on all Benz models on this forum right up to and including 2014 models. If they don't help u, find another dealership
My '05 E500 had a similar problem. Come to a complete stop then feel a little bump - felt exactly like someone bumped into the back of the car.
Important to note; it did it when the transmission was in "Sport" mode only, not in Comfort.
Sport would force the car into 1st gear when downshifting to a stop , while comfort only downshifts to second gear ... Therefore it makes sense what you're saying
Sport would force the car into 1st gear when downshifting to a stop , while comfort only downshifts to second gear ... Therefore it makes sense what you're saying
My '05 E500 had a similar problem. Come to a complete stop then feel a little bump - felt exactly like someone bumped into the back of the car.
Important to note; it did it when the transmission was in "Sport" mode only, not in Comfort.
I rarely put it in Sport - but you raise a good point, will try to force it to reproduce.
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
Gotcha... 2-1 kick is well reported on all Benz models on this forum right up to and including 2014 models. If they don't help u, find another dealership
Switzerland doesn't have a lot of dealerships, at least in my neck of the woods; two garages, both owned by the same dealer. But I won't hesitate to contact Daimler Schweitz if need be...
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
Sport would force the car into 1st gear when downshifting to a stop , while comfort only downshifts to second gear ... Therefore it makes sense what you're saying
Cheers for this reminder - as mentioned, I will try to drive the car more in S to replicate, if possible.
Hmmm... Driving home I couldn't provoke the kick: cold car, warm car, after driving in E / S, except for one slight (well, compared to the original kick).
I will keep trying in the coming days but one thing is certain, it *is* the 2-1 downshift that is causing it. Other gears are smooth, especially with my style of driving (easy and gliding, driving ms. Daizy).
Cheers for this reminder - as mentioned, I will try to drive the car more in S to replicate, if possible.
Just to be clear, my '05 E500 did NOT have the symptom when in C, only when in S.
Drive yours in both C and S. If it does it in one, but not the other, that could be useful information for the repair shop to have. Any testing you can do that provides more information will help narrow down the actual problem.
Judging by your avatar , you must be an Audemars Piguet Owner
Anyway, I have been noticing a similar behavior as your cars . Mine is also acting like as if someone is bumping back into the car or a heavy misfire issue . No codes, no error lights .
This only happens when I am using manual mode and only happens below 60 km/h and the car refuses to shift down to 1 even if I pull the right "-" paddle . Mine is always in S mode but I like to use manual mode to avoid turbo lag and want a faster acceleration in jammed traffic conditions .
Besides that , RPM is stuck in maximum 3500 when I press the gas pedal further down nothing happens and you feel the car is getting struggled because I want it to go above 3500 RPM but somehow it doesn't and it's like someone is seesawing the car back and forth
I can shift up into 3 but this time RPM is dropping and the car doesn't accelerate fast as it is doing in 2 with higher RPM numbers
However, when the road clears which means I can exceed 60 km/h then the car is running like champ .
I reckon this should be a misfire but if it misfires it should happen all the time ,mine only happens in these given conditions . May be the car needs a higher octane it was not available in when I last filled it up but if it si related to tranny then we call it a problem
Judging by your avatar , you must be an Audemars Piguet Owner
.........
A huge fan and, currently, an aspiring future owner
Back on topic: digging for information on the subject which I can put in front of the dealership and save time and effort, I stumbled upon this thread, where on page 6 (post #56) you have the official word from MBUSA on the issue with 722.9 boxes, also known as the 7G-Tronic.
A huge fan and, currently, an aspiring future owner
Back on topic: digging for information on the subject which I can put in front of the dealership and save time and effort, I stumbled upon this thread, where on page 6 (post #56) you have the official word from MBUSA on the issue with 722.9 boxes, also known as the 7G-Tronic.
I have a 2010 W212 E350 Estate; purchased in Germany with Junge Sterne 2 year warranty (the pre-owned certified program guarantee)
Very, very minor issues in my first year as owner. Two stand out: GPS is frequently showing me OFF-ROAD and quite often, when not moving in traffic the car has a KICK, more like a jolt coming from the gearbox...
Two weeks ago I visited the local MB garage for a B5 service and, on advice from the receiving mechanic, I opted for customer-paid and not part of warranty new firmware of the gearbox and engine to resolve the issue.
More on the symptoms: driving as usual, but whenever there is a prolonged stop and car is in Direct (D), there would be a bang accompanied by the whole car jolting as if hit from the back by another vehicle. Even after months of this, my first instinct is still checking the rear view mirror if someone actually hit me...
Have been VERY alert to remember when it happens, but other than the 40+sec stop at Direct, there is little other (slope, angle of car, hot/cold weather, etc)
Normal B5 visit here costs CHF 900, for firmware and other recommendations, I paid little over CHF 2,000... So, next week I booked a return visit for them to fix it. Judging by the reluctance to take my appointment, I believe they have no clue what this is related to.
I will be seeking resolution of the GPS positioning anomaly and the gearbox and come to ask you guys 2 questions:
1) Is the gearbox problem something you have heard before? What are the possible causes for this and how worried should I be? Is gearbox replacement part of the CPO warranty?
2) Given that last time I paid *everything* they asked for and was reassured issues must be solved, should I expect to pay again for the second visit, or is this on the garage to fix their poor service the first time?
Any ideas and comments on the topic are more than welcome! Great fora, glad to finally join!!!
Cheers
Why did you " I opted for customer-paid and not part of warranty new firmware of the gearbox and engine to resolve the issue"?
You said the car had 2-year warranty when you bought it and I understand you have had it for a year now? If it is under warranty they should not have asked money for the software update to address the issue they admitted MB knows of as there is a software update to fix it, right?
You should go ask your money back from this dealer and on top of it fix the issue under warranty.
Why did you " I opted for customer-paid and not part of warranty new firmware of the gearbox and engine to resolve the issue"?
You said the car had 2-year warranty when you bought it and I understand you have had it for a year now? If it is under warranty they should not have asked money for the software update to address the issue they admitted MB knows of as there is a software update to fix it, right?
You should go ask your money back from this dealer and on top of it fix the issue under warranty.
Bless your heart for this comment -- I say "opted", as the receiving mechanic was like
as in "this software update is not part of your warranty", on top of saying "yeah, this requires a new firmware but it is paid by customer". In hindsight, I believe they were a) unfamiliar with the issue and b) seeking easy and cheap, for the garage this is, way out.
I have already sent a negative review to Daimler Schweitz and gotten a reply asking for full details. Prehaps already mentioned it already but Wednesday I am returning the car to the garage so 1) GPS showing off-road and 2) gearbox kick and 3) idle RPM never going below 900rpm
The best or nothing, ideally on the first try, eh?
Bless your heart for this comment -- I say "opted", as the receiving mechanic was like
as in "this software update is not part of your warranty", on top of saying "yeah, this requires a new firmware but it is paid by customer". In hindsight, I believe they were a) unfamiliar with the issue and b) seeking easy and cheap, for the garage this is, way out.
I have already sent a negative review to Daimler Schweitz and gotten a reply asking for full details. Prehaps already mentioned it already but Wednesday I am returning the car to the garage so 1) GPS showing off-road and 2) gearbox kick and 3) idle RPM never going below 900rpm
The best or nothing, ideally on the first try, eh?
Man, they just ripped of a customer who don't know better. They gave you a "story" perhaps being sure the software update will fix the problem and you will be happy and if it did you would have been and not be writing in this forum, right? Easy $1200 for the dealer for not really doing anything...
As expensive as Switzerland is in everything right now I would really go and rise a hell about them charging for a software issue that is made to address a warranty issue with a car. You said you already filed it with the MB Switzerland but I would also walk in the dealer's manager's office and let him/her hear it. In my book they are stealing from you.
Man, they just ripped of a customer who don't know better. They gave you a "story" perhaps being sure the software update will fix the problem and you will be happy and if it did you would have been and not be writing in this forum, right? Easy $1200 for the dealer for not really doing anything...
As expensive as Switzerland is in everything right now I would really go and rise a hell about them charging for a software issue that is made to address a warranty issue with a car. You said you already filed it with the MB Switzerland but I would also walk in the dealer's manager's office and let him/her hear it. In my book they are stealing from you.
This morning I dropped the car at the dealer and a funny thing happened... told him the kick is still there and that I have researched and it is most likely the 2-1 downshift... He interrupted me there and said "look, this is a very peculiar issue and we have not heard of it, so we'll run more diagnostics".
I pulled out the MB workshop paper on the 722.9 as well as the service document someone kindly posted in another thread and asked him "oh, really? How is it you have it in your system since 2011 and I found it before you".
Guy pointed at the document and in pure shock said "BUT THIS IS INTERNAL"
I respect that, but how is it I paid CHF2k and you didn't fix my problem and I found this INTERNAL paper saying it is a known issue since 2011??? Consider this visit a recall on the service you performed and I do not expect to be billed for your training or lack of competences.
He tried to summarize the things to do and said "I'll call you tomorrow". I am fine if they keep the car for longer as long as this is resolved.
Two things - despite this being their fault, and me 1) paying once and 2) staying with no wheels again, they didn't offer a courtesy car. Secondly, the receiving mechanic was more concerned that I have internal documentation at hand than the fact they overlooked it the first time around.
Second strike - if the issues persist after this visit, I will be pushing for a new gearbox via Daimler Schweitz. Cannot risk having this liability after warranty expires.
Thank you all for the support and tips, amazing fora, guys!
Ha, yeah, there is no internal document that we don't have around here. I can't believe you have no loaner car. That dealer is just bad all around.
God bless your heart for that! Today I called the garage as they didn't bother to call me with an update. The mechanic said "we'd like to keep the car for one more day of testing - so far NOTHING indicates problems with GPS, idle rpm or gearbox"
I interrupted the verbal diarrhea the guy obviously had and started:
1) did you check the valve and conductor plate
"which valve?"
2) did you check the pictures I left with the receiving mechanic of the GPS screen being OFF-ROAD on the highway and while parked?
"I cannot see any pictures here"
3) did any of you drive the car in traffic and then break to a halt for 2+ minutes?
"we have not taken the car for a ride, we are running the computer diagnostic and struggle to find any errors so far"
I am completely disheartened at this point. Holding my breath what tomorrow will bring.
When collecting the car, the receiving mechanic had a few things to say:
1) they have installed a new "revision" of the firmware for transmission+engine. The kick is gone (or never felt) during the weekend, but the drawback is noticeable/harder shifts up 2-3-4 and downshift 4-3-2 and especially 2-1.
The guy said that until something appears in the logs or an error is displayed on their computer - they cannot do much. Is this truly the case? If I visit again next week with enough experience to show the harder shifts, especially when going downhill, would that help or is this a dead end? What say you folks?
2) GPS - he said that (perhaps) when I was experiencing the OFF-ROAD message, there were not enough satellites to touch. I explained to him each photo I took: highway (open sky), road in town (open sky) and driving in town (again, open sky) and he said "ignore this". Advise given was: each time car is appearing as OFF-ROAD or misplaced, go to COMPASS and seek the reading on number of satellites: if less than 3, nothing can be done. While he was demonstrating this feature, sat count was varying between 6 and 10. Could it be that just the antenna is faulty or with poor reception?
3) warm engine idle RPM - this is still at times glued to 900RPM when normally it should be closer to 500RPM. All filters and oils have been changed on the last B5 visit - is this a point of concern or should I just ignore and accept as part of living with a 70k km vehicle? Seems abnormal to me but I may be just spoiled?
After the second visit and re-flash of gearbox+engine firmware, the issue is worse. The problem is noticeable throughout the range, not just 2-1.
Especially when I "push" the car, step on the gas a bit more accelerating, the 2-3-4-5 is rough and shift lags. Takes 2-3 seconds before the car responds to pressing the accelerator. If I start from 0 and accelerate to 45, gearbox goes 1-2-3-4 then quickly onto 5th and if I slow down a bit to ~40km/h and then immediately accelerate again, 1) the car is not responding for 2-3 seconds, then catapults from 4th and the shift to 5th is with a (not very loud) bang when I stop pushing at 50-ish km/h.
I called MB Schweitz this morning, explaining that twice I've been without wheels and the issue is persistent and not resolved. They told me 2 things:
- call the garage and get and appointment asap
- we will open a case at HQ and investigate why:
the garage charged you for the firmware
the garage did not seek HQ support to resolve
the garage is noticeably incapable to handle cross-garage warranty charges (internal clearing)
Well, I called and booked a THIRD visit to the garage next week - I hope that in the mean time MB-CH will also have some eyes on the problem, too.
Being optimistic to the verge of being naive, I think the garage gave me a crap firmware so that the issue can pop-up in the error logs and they can easier identify the problems... Let's hope this is indeed the case with Andre Chevallier, and not someone being lazy to process paperwork
08-27-2014, 07:37 AM
