This may be my 1st and last MB
12-25-2014, 02:12 PM
#26
Senior Member
MB's have very complicated maintenance procedures. The cabin filter is a prime example. Read the threads here about how to do it. Very complicated compared to other manufacturers. MB's require far more transmission, brake, etc. other services as well.
Can't speak for Fords, but Asian cars have far fewer problems. And it does cost far less to repair if something happens. Labor costs are also far more expensive than American and Asian makes. Partly due to greater length of time to perform a service.
I still like my E350, but it is what it is.
No argument, the newer Asian cars are generally more reliable and MB labor rates are crazy. MB brakes require a flush every two years. Toyota for example doesn't seem to spec out an interval, but the fluid most people have in their cars is hygroscopic, it can absorb water and can long term cause corrosion. I haven't done the Tundra, don't remember if the acura was ever done, but no issues with the brakes on either. Euro cars call for more maintenance, that is just their nature.
I guess the bottom line is that you are driving a high performance car that needs more TLC than a comparable American or Asian car. I can live with it as the price of admission. My point is that working on one of these cars is not out of the realm of capability for folks that are familiar with working on cars. Everybody is different, and if you aren't handy then you pay the higher price to get it fixed. Unless my car turns into a money pit, I plan on driving it a lot longer than 80K miles and I will do as much of the preventative and unscheduled maintenance as I can. Fingers crossed.
12-25-2014, 03:08 PM
#27
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2008 E320 Bluetec (until 11/14), 2001 SLK 320, 2004 Volvo V70, 1972 MGB, 2013 E350
Routine maintenance is fairly expensive. I have taken my E320BT to the dealer and to my Indy for a "B' service. Dealer was $523.50, Indy was $464.40. They both gave me a free loaner, dealer included N/C car wash, so I guess his net price was $503.50. Not much difference. If you look at the long list of items that they check, it is not too far out of line. Dealer labor rate is $110/hr, Indy is $100. He is not your average Indy though, he specializes in M-B, and Volvo and has all of the diagnostic tools needed. Considering that the FSS only calls for service at 10,000 miles or one year, I really don't have a major problem as long as they do the work that they say they are doing.
Last edited by CarolinaBluetec; 12-25-2014 at 03:11 PM. Reason: sp
12-25-2014, 05:13 PM
#28
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2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
[QUOTE=aquinob;6274209]I just googled the procedure for the w212 cabin air filter replacement. Its pretty similar to the one for the old w202 c230. You had to pull back on the carpet and remove the lower panel on the dash. The filter sat in a very similar enclosure. It's maybe a 20-30min job if you're not in a hurry and dont do it very often.
I have owned Fords, Toyotas, a Hyundai and other makes with cabin filters. 10 minutes tops, usually 5. Asians: Drop the glove box door, empty box, pull out old filter, install new filter, put junk back in box, reattach door. Done! On Ford, had to raise hood, remove four bolts and grille, pull out old filter and push in new, reattach bolts and grille. Done!
Although I have worked on cars- brakes, coolant flushes, O&F changes, etc., I would not even attempt to replace the cabin filter in my MB.
Interestingly, on Ford and Asian cars, replacing cabin filter is part of the DIY procedures contained in owners manuals. On MB, it says take it to an MB Service Center. No DIY on anything.
I have owned Fords, Toyotas, a Hyundai and other makes with cabin filters. 10 minutes tops, usually 5. Asians: Drop the glove box door, empty box, pull out old filter, install new filter, put junk back in box, reattach door. Done! On Ford, had to raise hood, remove four bolts and grille, pull out old filter and push in new, reattach bolts and grille. Done!
Although I have worked on cars- brakes, coolant flushes, O&F changes, etc., I would not even attempt to replace the cabin filter in my MB.
Interestingly, on Ford and Asian cars, replacing cabin filter is part of the DIY procedures contained in owners manuals. On MB, it says take it to an MB Service Center. No DIY on anything.
12-26-2014, 12:09 AM
#29
Junior Member
Sorry to hear of the OP's issues so early in the ownership. Perhaps I have been very fortunate but I am on my 4th E Class (2002 E320 4Matic wagon, 2007 E350 4Matic wagon, 2007 E550 4Matic sedan, and currently a 2011 E350 4Matic wagon) and I have had no reliability issues so far... Knock on wood!
Every one of these cars i purchased used and I did my homework on each one to ensure they were properly dealer maintained. In other words if I could not see a paper trail of maintenance visits, I would walk away. CPO is the way to go to ensure peace of mind but in the absence of that, a properly maintained service history tells me the car was maintained to manufacturers spec.
If you are looking for a reliable, vanilla flavoured, trouble free, appliance like experience, then go Toyota. If you have an ounce of car enthusiast in your bones and appreciate the sublime ride, luxury, safety and driving experience of these fine automobiles, do your homework and find one that's been treated properly. These are cars designed to last a long time when maintained properly
And to me that has proven to be the key. Good luck!
Every one of these cars i purchased used and I did my homework on each one to ensure they were properly dealer maintained. In other words if I could not see a paper trail of maintenance visits, I would walk away. CPO is the way to go to ensure peace of mind but in the absence of that, a properly maintained service history tells me the car was maintained to manufacturers spec.
If you are looking for a reliable, vanilla flavoured, trouble free, appliance like experience, then go Toyota. If you have an ounce of car enthusiast in your bones and appreciate the sublime ride, luxury, safety and driving experience of these fine automobiles, do your homework and find one that's been treated properly. These are cars designed to last a long time when maintained properly
And to me that has proven to be the key. Good luck!
12-26-2014, 09:39 AM
#30
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2008 E320 Bluetec (until 11/14), 2001 SLK 320, 2004 Volvo V70, 1972 MGB, 2013 E350
I spent 25 years off and on repairing and rebuilding an MGB and 50 years fixing assorted cars. Heck, I even worked as a mechanic (scary thought) in a gas station when I was in school. Over the years I have gotten tired of greasy hands and smelling like gasoline. If it requires much more effort than changing an easily accessible bulb, it goes to the Dealer or the Indy.
12-26-2014, 10:13 AM
#31
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2010 E350 Sedan, 2010 Prius II
Update
So I took the car to the Audi dealer. They agreed to split the transmission cost and the control knob cost with me. No dice on the console noise or the heated seat.
Already got the trans. and knob fixed. Did the transmission service which was due in 250 days anyway. So I actually came out ahead if you look at it since the dealer paid half. The dealer did confirm there is no flood damage. I hit the console with the palm of my hand and the noise went away and hasn't returned. Am still contemplating fixing the heated seat. Although here in TX, it's hardly a big deal. But knowing something in the car doesn't function bugs me every time I get in it.
It's possible I could get years out of it with nary a problem or it could be a lemon. Kind of like playing the stock market. Sell now while all is well or wait till something major happens, then sell and take a loss. I guess it's that way with any car.
I really can't think of one car to replace it with, except maybe a pre-owned Bentley which is out of my price range. I've owned a BMW and loved it but the new body/interior doesn't compare to the MB, IMO. Audi, I've heard is in the shop more than the street. Lexus maybe but it's just so darned 'cushy.' Maybe even a newer MB as some have suggested.
Maybe even sell my Prius and MB and get a 2015 Prius with all the trimmings and go back to being a tree hugging jerk. LOL
So I took the car to the Audi dealer. They agreed to split the transmission cost and the control knob cost with me. No dice on the console noise or the heated seat.
Already got the trans. and knob fixed. Did the transmission service which was due in 250 days anyway. So I actually came out ahead if you look at it since the dealer paid half. The dealer did confirm there is no flood damage. I hit the console with the palm of my hand and the noise went away and hasn't returned. Am still contemplating fixing the heated seat. Although here in TX, it's hardly a big deal. But knowing something in the car doesn't function bugs me every time I get in it.
It's possible I could get years out of it with nary a problem or it could be a lemon. Kind of like playing the stock market. Sell now while all is well or wait till something major happens, then sell and take a loss. I guess it's that way with any car.
I really can't think of one car to replace it with, except maybe a pre-owned Bentley which is out of my price range. I've owned a BMW and loved it but the new body/interior doesn't compare to the MB, IMO. Audi, I've heard is in the shop more than the street. Lexus maybe but it's just so darned 'cushy.' Maybe even a newer MB as some have suggested.
Maybe even sell my Prius and MB and get a 2015 Prius with all the trimmings and go back to being a tree hugging jerk. LOL
Last edited by extremetm; 12-26-2014 at 10:18 AM.
12-26-2014, 11:44 AM
#32
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2010 E350 4Matic
So I can relate to your experience having owned an 06 E3504matic that was covered under factory warranty then extended. The car was maintained to the hilt with a lot of time spent in the shop for under warranty repairs. The second it went out of factory warranty the the lower water hose started leaking. Then I had to do a front end alignment that required extra camber bolts making it a pricey service. Similar to the V12 guy the car wasn't living up to my expectations of a Mercedes having been around them for 50 years. The other thing was the car was kind of jinxed in that it seemed to attract all sorts of impacts from falling limbs to other cars. I got pissed and sold it to a guy I knew for a really good price. The jinxing continued as he was rear ended on the way home from purchasing it and continued to have some issues and recently sold it himself.
The thing is no other car drives like these cars and the W212 in particular as has been stated in the press it is close to in spirit to the W124 which is one of the all time great Mercedes. The W212's are more reliable than my pre facelift W211 are far more reliable than a 2003 V12 CL. I've been the market for one myself and as Kash2014, who has been graciously assisting me in my quest, pointed out you cut a pretty fat hog buying it, the dealer is hooking you up post sale, so my advise would be to relax and enjoy it. Good luck.
The thing is no other car drives like these cars and the W212 in particular as has been stated in the press it is close to in spirit to the W124 which is one of the all time great Mercedes. The W212's are more reliable than my pre facelift W211 are far more reliable than a 2003 V12 CL. I've been the market for one myself and as Kash2014, who has been graciously assisting me in my quest, pointed out you cut a pretty fat hog buying it, the dealer is hooking you up post sale, so my advise would be to relax and enjoy it. Good luck.
Last edited by MBNUT1; 12-26-2014 at 11:57 AM.
12-26-2014, 11:49 AM
#33
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At least you have a realistic attitude and a sense of humor about it. Cross those fingers and best of luck going forward :-)
Last edited by nycphotography; 12-26-2014 at 02:26 PM.
12-26-2014, 12:23 PM
#34
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Compared to my 2004 Infiniti M45, maintenance on the 'Benz E is less. Oil changes were every 3,500 miles. Changing the cabin air filter on it was no more difficult than the E, except that the E is in the footwell. The Infiniti required disconnecting a few wiring harnesses, removing the glove box, and sometimes glove box door if you couldn't get the box out easily. My Infiniti spent more time in the shop in the first year than I had driving it. Parts took 6 weeks to get each time. Ultimately, the car was a better car at 100,000 miles than new. Similarly, at 215k when I traded it in it was still better and burned less oil than when I took delivery back with 50 miles on it. Sadly, by 100,000 miles and even Monday at 215,000 miles, I loved the car and didn't want to let go of it. It had a lot of teething problems but once I got past those it was divine.
The real issue is that the OP bought a 5 year old used car...and apparently wasn't given an accurate report of the car's true condition. Some parts of Mercedes are overly-complex, but that's what makes them what they are. Likewise, there were corners cut left & right on the Infiniti which drove me nuts (and cost a fortune!) over the years. $400 to change a headlamp....bulb was only $120, the rest was labour trying to get to the damn thing.
The real issue is that the OP bought a 5 year old used car...and apparently wasn't given an accurate report of the car's true condition. Some parts of Mercedes are overly-complex, but that's what makes them what they are. Likewise, there were corners cut left & right on the Infiniti which drove me nuts (and cost a fortune!) over the years. $400 to change a headlamp....bulb was only $120, the rest was labour trying to get to the damn thing.
12-26-2014, 12:27 PM
#35
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2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Little off topic, but I like to look at "old" cars and read about them. While not as pretty, they sure were a lot simpler to work on. For most things, the screw or bolt heads were right there on the front of the part, headlamp, etc.
12-26-2014, 01:15 PM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
Update
So I took the car to the Audi dealer. They agreed to split the transmission cost and the control knob cost with me. No dice on the console noise or the heated seat.
Already got the trans. and knob fixed. Did the transmission service which was due in 250 days anyway. So I actually came out ahead if you look at it since the dealer paid half. The dealer did confirm there is no flood damage. I hit the console with the palm of my hand and the noise went away and hasn't returned. Am still contemplating fixing the heated seat. Although here in TX, it's hardly a big deal. But knowing something in the car doesn't function bugs me every time I get in it.
It's possible I could get years out of it with nary a problem or it could be a lemon. Kind of like playing the stock market. Sell now while all is well or wait till something major happens, then sell and take a loss. I guess it's that way with any car.
I really can't think of one car to replace it with, except maybe a pre-owned Bentley which is out of my price range. I've owned a BMW and loved it but the new body/interior doesn't compare to the MB, IMO. Audi, I've heard is in the shop more than the street. Lexus maybe but it's just so darned 'cushy.' Maybe even a newer MB as some have suggested.
Maybe even sell my Prius and MB and get a 2015 Prius with all the trimmings and go back to being a tree hugging jerk. LOL
So I took the car to the Audi dealer. They agreed to split the transmission cost and the control knob cost with me. No dice on the console noise or the heated seat.
Already got the trans. and knob fixed. Did the transmission service which was due in 250 days anyway. So I actually came out ahead if you look at it since the dealer paid half. The dealer did confirm there is no flood damage. I hit the console with the palm of my hand and the noise went away and hasn't returned. Am still contemplating fixing the heated seat. Although here in TX, it's hardly a big deal. But knowing something in the car doesn't function bugs me every time I get in it.
It's possible I could get years out of it with nary a problem or it could be a lemon. Kind of like playing the stock market. Sell now while all is well or wait till something major happens, then sell and take a loss. I guess it's that way with any car.
I really can't think of one car to replace it with, except maybe a pre-owned Bentley which is out of my price range. I've owned a BMW and loved it but the new body/interior doesn't compare to the MB, IMO. Audi, I've heard is in the shop more than the street. Lexus maybe but it's just so darned 'cushy.' Maybe even a newer MB as some have suggested.
Maybe even sell my Prius and MB and get a 2015 Prius with all the trimmings and go back to being a tree hugging jerk. LOL
12-26-2014, 04:22 PM
#37
Senior Member
Update
So I took the car to the Audi dealer. They agreed to split the transmission cost and the control knob cost with me. No dice on the console noise or the heated seat.
Already got the trans. and knob fixed. Did the transmission service which was due in 250 days anyway. So I actually came out ahead if you look at it since the dealer paid half. The dealer did confirm there is no flood damage. I hit the console with the palm of my hand and the noise went away and hasn't returned. Am still contemplating fixing the heated seat. Although here in TX, it's hardly a big deal. But knowing something in the car doesn't function bugs me every time I get in it.
It's possible I could get years out of it with nary a problem or it could be a lemon. Kind of like playing the stock market. Sell now while all is well or wait till something major happens, then sell and take a loss. I guess it's that way with any car.
I really can't think of one car to replace it with, except maybe a pre-owned Bentley which is out of my price range. I've owned a BMW and loved it but the new body/interior doesn't compare to the MB, IMO. Audi, I've heard is in the shop more than the street. Lexus maybe but it's just so darned 'cushy.' Maybe even a newer MB as some have suggested.
Maybe even sell my Prius and MB and get a 2015 Prius with all the trimmings and go back to being a tree hugging jerk. LOL
So I took the car to the Audi dealer. They agreed to split the transmission cost and the control knob cost with me. No dice on the console noise or the heated seat.
Already got the trans. and knob fixed. Did the transmission service which was due in 250 days anyway. So I actually came out ahead if you look at it since the dealer paid half. The dealer did confirm there is no flood damage. I hit the console with the palm of my hand and the noise went away and hasn't returned. Am still contemplating fixing the heated seat. Although here in TX, it's hardly a big deal. But knowing something in the car doesn't function bugs me every time I get in it.
It's possible I could get years out of it with nary a problem or it could be a lemon. Kind of like playing the stock market. Sell now while all is well or wait till something major happens, then sell and take a loss. I guess it's that way with any car.
I really can't think of one car to replace it with, except maybe a pre-owned Bentley which is out of my price range. I've owned a BMW and loved it but the new body/interior doesn't compare to the MB, IMO. Audi, I've heard is in the shop more than the street. Lexus maybe but it's just so darned 'cushy.' Maybe even a newer MB as some have suggested.
Maybe even sell my Prius and MB and get a 2015 Prius with all the trimmings and go back to being a tree hugging jerk. LOL
Glad to hear back from you. I'm kinda in the same boat, a 2010 with no warranty, so if I think too much about it, I can get antsy wondering what if? But it is a beautiful car, and is a joy to drive. If it behaves itself, then I can slap myself on the back for being so smart. I did get the dealer to flush the tranny before I took possession of it, and they did the cpo inspection to verify there were no known issues. In the end, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Remember too, you generally only hear about the problems people have with these cars, not so much about how they run day in and day out without a hitch. Good luck and enjoy driving it.
12-26-2014, 06:46 PM
#38
Senior Member
Wait, you did put in a little research about maintenance on C216 models, especially V12, before you bought it, right? 
Aside from maybe a W100 600, there might not be a more maintenance intensive MB made since before the war. As they age, they are for the skilled DIYer, or someone who really likes to make their mechanic's boat payment. When it is healthy, it'll drive like no Lexfiniticura ever made, but you gotta pay to play. Very apples to oranges in comparison with a workaday W212, which many posters here have racked up tens of thousands of miles at a time with little drama. If you've compared it to the GTR (new NSX still might as well be vaporware), no doubt the performance was something, but the design and material quality might make it a rough transition. Not to mention the image.
Aside from maybe a W100 600, there might not be a more maintenance intensive MB made since before the war. As they age, they are for the skilled DIYer, or someone who really likes to make their mechanic's boat payment. When it is healthy, it'll drive like no Lexfiniticura ever made, but you gotta pay to play. Very apples to oranges in comparison with a workaday W212, which many posters here have racked up tens of thousands of miles at a time with little drama. If you've compared it to the GTR (new NSX still might as well be vaporware), no doubt the performance was something, but the design and material quality might make it a rough transition. Not to mention the image.
12-29-2014, 08:30 PM
#39
Junior Member
I own a 2010 E350 both Prem packages & Sport
I also had a problem with the driver's seat heating properly, I purchased the CPO extended warranty and was given a 1yr also from MB for the car had only 39,000 miles and not quite 48 months old! I took it back to my Dealer, explained what was wrong, they ordered in the parts, (2 days) took it in and they fixed it, (took 2 1/2 hrs.) I paid Nothing! 
got a free loaner and also a hand wash! Don't know what the seat repair costs? I got an invoice for $0.00! They did the 40,000 mile maintenance too, No cost to me and showed me the write-up and I got a copy. $1173.00 worth of Maintenance Service. The dealer's Service People are SUPER Great and knowledgeable! I also did ALL my own repair and maintenance work on the last 8 cars owned. I bought the maintenance packages because, I know MB parts are expensive and service is about $90 an hour. You need the electronic computer hook-ups or you throw parts at the car. I am 60 years old, time to use some of the money I saved working on cars the last 35 years. The $82 a month won't kill me and I love dropping it off, telling a knowledgeable Person what is wrong, get a Free Loaner for as long as it takes, free car washes, and the car rides and runs perfect! I did my homework also, buy the Warranty or check the MB websites for small problems with knobs, leaks, squeaks, rattles, and simple things you can do yourself! I have personalized mine with chrome seat buttons, chrome door handle scratch guards, rear roof and rear lip spoiler (painted and installed myself), chrome lock pins, door arm rest boxes, outdoor mirror rain guards, chrome arm rest rear vent trim, illuminated door scuff plates, all MB mats and trunk mat, MB mud flaps (painted & installed myself) oh yea, replaced the Cabin air filter (myself) with a OEM Mann. easy to do, 3 screws and 1 small clip, took 10 minutes! Nicest, best riding and YES, it moves out in "S" Mode, will throw you back in your seat and hit 80mph in a flash!
got a free loaner and also a hand wash! Don't know what the seat repair costs? I got an invoice for $0.00! They did the 40,000 mile maintenance too, No cost to me and showed me the write-up and I got a copy. $1173.00 worth of Maintenance Service. The dealer's Service People are SUPER Great and knowledgeable! I also did ALL my own repair and maintenance work on the last 8 cars owned. I bought the maintenance packages because, I know MB parts are expensive and service is about $90 an hour. You need the electronic computer hook-ups or you throw parts at the car. I am 60 years old, time to use some of the money I saved working on cars the last 35 years. The $82 a month won't kill me and I love dropping it off, telling a knowledgeable Person what is wrong, get a Free Loaner for as long as it takes, free car washes, and the car rides and runs perfect! I did my homework also, buy the Warranty or check the MB websites for small problems with knobs, leaks, squeaks, rattles, and simple things you can do yourself! I have personalized mine with chrome seat buttons, chrome door handle scratch guards, rear roof and rear lip spoiler (painted and installed myself), chrome lock pins, door arm rest boxes, outdoor mirror rain guards, chrome arm rest rear vent trim, illuminated door scuff plates, all MB mats and trunk mat, MB mud flaps (painted & installed myself) oh yea, replaced the Cabin air filter (myself) with a OEM Mann. easy to do, 3 screws and 1 small clip, took 10 minutes! Nicest, best riding and YES, it moves out in "S" Mode, will throw you back in your seat and hit 80mph in a flash!
12-29-2014, 09:52 PM
#40
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Burn the Benz!!!
12-30-2014, 05:03 AM
#41
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2008 S65 AMG, 2005 SL65 AMG, 2005 Porsche Carrera, 2011 Shelby GT500, 2001 Acura CL Type S
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@extremetm: I am curious how you handled the issue and whether the dealer was helpful.
My "Mercedes ownership experience" improved since I found a dependable and knowledgeable mechanic. I am not the one to easily get rid of the car - the CL tested my nerves and patience like no other car before. I will drive it for as long as I can muster the patience.
BMW is also in my past and I was glad when it was sold/traded in.
Bottom line is not about repairs but about whether you like and enjoy the car. If you enjoy it, fix it and keep driving. If you are not enjoying it, sell it and get what you enjoy.
My "Mercedes ownership experience" improved since I found a dependable and knowledgeable mechanic. I am not the one to easily get rid of the car - the CL tested my nerves and patience like no other car before. I will drive it for as long as I can muster the patience.
BMW is also in my past and I was glad when it was sold/traded in.
Bottom line is not about repairs but about whether you like and enjoy the car. If you enjoy it, fix it and keep driving. If you are not enjoying it, sell it and get what you enjoy.
12-30-2014, 09:40 AM
#42
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^ Did you read his post? Post #31
A good indy mechanic really helps with these cars or a competent dealer who is fair, but I agree with your assessment of selling if it's not for you. Life is too short to drive a car you don't like. For me these E class cars with an 8 banger are the Goldilocks vehicle. Just right.
A good indy mechanic really helps with these cars or a competent dealer who is fair, but I agree with your assessment of selling if it's not for you. Life is too short to drive a car you don't like. For me these E class cars with an 8 banger are the Goldilocks vehicle. Just right.
12-31-2014, 05:57 PM
#43
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I just read it now and LOLed at the closing line )))) For some reason, I did not see that post earlier. Thank you for pointing that out.
)))) For some reason, I did not see that post earlier. Thank you for pointing that out.^ Did you read his post? Post #31
A good indy mechanic really helps with these cars or a competent dealer who is fair, but I agree with your assessment of selling if it's not for you. Life is too short to drive a car you don't like. For me these E class cars with an 8 banger are the Goldilocks vehicle. Just right.
A good indy mechanic really helps with these cars or a competent dealer who is fair, but I agree with your assessment of selling if it's not for you. Life is too short to drive a car you don't like. For me these E class cars with an 8 banger are the Goldilocks vehicle. Just right.
01-01-2015, 12:23 AM
#44
Senior Member
Although my wife has a C350, it's been 100% bullet proof, best car experience by far... and Mercedes of San Francisco is by far, the best... hands down. I love my wife's car and look forward to replacing my RRS with a Merc in the near future. Love the products.
01-01-2015, 01:19 AM
#45
Senior Member
I have always gone to indy dealers for my other cars (mostly GM) out of warranty. But for the tiny bit of extra cash I go to the dealer. Flagship in Lynnfield, MA is hands down the best dealer I have been to. Never second guessing me on my concerns, always following through on all requests, no matter how small. The biggest to me is GM's famous excuse "we can not replicate the customers concerns". MB will keep the car for days if need to replicate my concern, while giving me a fresh new loaner in my class of car or better.
01-01-2015, 03:50 AM
#46
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@fintail: You have not lived until you owned a CL out of warranty )))
My points expressed here are very straightforward: 1) Mercedes could do a better job with technical guidance on repairs for these very complex cars instead of harping about "maintenance-free" for certain systems. 2) Drive the car you enjoy. I am fortunate that I get to enjoy not one, not two but three different cars, including this V12 beast.
I will also say that I respectfully disagree with your comment about the ride in Japanese cars. Their finish is impeccable, quality of materials is superb and suspensions are excellent (some softer, some firmer). As for image, if it grips and goes like crazy, that's all I am looking for. Having a "star" on the hood is irrelevant to me.
))) My points expressed here are very straightforward: 1) Mercedes could do a better job with technical guidance on repairs for these very complex cars instead of harping about "maintenance-free" for certain systems. 2) Drive the car you enjoy. I am fortunate that I get to enjoy not one, not two but three different cars, including this V12 beast.
I will also say that I respectfully disagree with your comment about the ride in Japanese cars. Their finish is impeccable, quality of materials is superb and suspensions are excellent (some softer, some firmer). As for image, if it grips and goes like crazy, that's all I am looking for. Having a "star" on the hood is irrelevant to me.
Wait, you did put in a little research about maintenance on C216 models, especially V12, before you bought it, right? Aside from maybe a W100 600, there might not be a more maintenance intensive MB made since before the war. As they age, they are for the skilled DIYer, or someone who really likes to make their mechanic's boat payment. When it is healthy, it'll drive like no Lexfiniticura ever made, but you gotta pay to play. Very apples to oranges in comparison with a workaday W212, which many posters here have racked up tens of thousands of miles at a time with little drama. If you've compared it to the GTR (new NSX still might as well be vaporware), no doubt the performance was something, but the design and material quality might make it a rough transition. Not to mention the image.
Aside from maybe a W100 600, there might not be a more maintenance intensive MB made since before the war. As they age, they are for the skilled DIYer, or someone who really likes to make their mechanic's boat payment. When it is healthy, it'll drive like no Lexfiniticura ever made, but you gotta pay to play. Very apples to oranges in comparison with a workaday W212, which many posters here have racked up tens of thousands of miles at a time with little drama. If you've compared it to the GTR (new NSX still might as well be vaporware), no doubt the performance was something, but the design and material quality might make it a rough transition. Not to mention the image.
01-01-2015, 02:28 PM
#47
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2008 S65 AMG, 2005 SL65 AMG, 2005 Porsche Carrera, 2011 Shelby GT500, 2001 Acura CL Type S
CL
Very good comments. I do not pretend that I can fix a lot by myself. Instead, I want to understand the car so that when something breaks, I take it to a master mechanic and the issue can be fixed as quickly as possible. What I absolutely can't stand is the endless debugging of issues and I have experienced a lot of that with the CL and its "ESP Malfunction" or being stuck because of some overlooked "complexity" or "dependency."
Most CL owners talk about ABC and how costly it is to maintain. For me, that was a non-issue because I had the hydraulic hoses and the pump replaced and it was done-and-done. ESP Malfunction was a beast to debug and it took over a month to get sorted out - in the end, indy mechanic (not the Mercedes shop) fixed it and explained everything. That's the kind of service I like and expect and I will keep bringing the car back to that same mechanic from now on. With about 81K now on the CL, car is in like-new condition. I can say that because I asked the indy mechanic to "open it up" and check everything out (including the turbos and intercoolers). ABC is new, coil packs are new, (front) struts are new, ball bearings are new, the whole shebang in the trunk is new (harness+pump+struts), PSE pump is new (replaced it because the old one was "gasping" a bit). Granted, previous owner(s) did not take care of the car (front struts and ball bearings were a testament to that).
Now I have my own "100-point checklist" which I can have the indy mechanic go through once a year and even if problems are found, it won't be too costly or too time consuming to get fixed. Still, that's a lot of stuff to replace on a car with 70-80k (all repairs were done in a "span" of 10k miles from 70k to 80k) and a lot of downtime. In hindsight, a newer CL would have been a better choice but it is what it is now and I prefer W215 body style over W216. Learned a lot about the car. Love driving it. I even learned to love the trunk shebang. Since I was fixing it over a period of time, I also enjoy the feeling of gradual improvement and going back to the original smoothness coupled with savage power in the CL.
I also have an Acura CL with an original transmission (290K on it) and it runs like new. Overall, I had one serious problem with that car - when starter died at 260k. Everything else was minor, not always inexpensive to repair, but it is was a quick fix and car was never in a shop for more than a day.
The GT500 is a rocket and I love it. I drove it more over the past year than the Acura and the CL combined. Love the way it moves and noises it makes. It needs a few hundred bucks in maintenance every year.
As soon as I find that "glowing [LED] Star" that fits, I will put it on the CL LOL.
Most CL owners talk about ABC and how costly it is to maintain. For me, that was a non-issue because I had the hydraulic hoses and the pump replaced and it was done-and-done. ESP Malfunction was a beast to debug and it took over a month to get sorted out - in the end, indy mechanic (not the Mercedes shop) fixed it and explained everything. That's the kind of service I like and expect and I will keep bringing the car back to that same mechanic from now on. With about 81K now on the CL, car is in like-new condition. I can say that because I asked the indy mechanic to "open it up" and check everything out (including the turbos and intercoolers). ABC is new, coil packs are new, (front) struts are new, ball bearings are new, the whole shebang in the trunk is new (harness+pump+struts), PSE pump is new (replaced it because the old one was "gasping" a bit). Granted, previous owner(s) did not take care of the car (front struts and ball bearings were a testament to that).
Now I have my own "100-point checklist" which I can have the indy mechanic go through once a year and even if problems are found, it won't be too costly or too time consuming to get fixed. Still, that's a lot of stuff to replace on a car with 70-80k (all repairs were done in a "span" of 10k miles from 70k to 80k) and a lot of downtime. In hindsight, a newer CL would have been a better choice but it is what it is now and I prefer W215 body style over W216. Learned a lot about the car. Love driving it. I even learned to love the trunk shebang. Since I was fixing it over a period of time, I also enjoy the feeling of gradual improvement and going back to the original smoothness coupled with savage power in the CL.
I also have an Acura CL with an original transmission (290K on it) and it runs like new. Overall, I had one serious problem with that car - when starter died at 260k. Everything else was minor, not always inexpensive to repair, but it is was a quick fix and car was never in a shop for more than a day.
The GT500 is a rocket and I love it. I drove it more over the past year than the Acura and the CL combined. Love the way it moves and noises it makes. It needs a few hundred bucks in maintenance every year.
As soon as I find that "glowing [LED] Star" that fits, I will put it on the CL LOL.
Summarized a bit, I agree with some, but for sure don't agree with these cars as being a throw a way or done at 80K.
What I've noticed is that it seems most of the folks on this forum are deathly afraid of what might happen when something breaks on one of these w212 cars if they don't have some sort of full warranty coverage to back them up. Coming from the w202 community, nobody had any sort of warranty and the general consensus was that if something breaks or you need to have maintenance done, you would be much better off if you did it yourself or took it to a good indy mechanic. I've been doing most of my own maintenance on all my vehicles for the last 40 years, and while I'm no pro, I can do a good amount of the common stuff like spark plug changes, brakes, belts, hoses and even charge up A/C systems.
To say that MB is building a car that can only last 50K miles before you need to toss it is pretty ridiculous, especially since they cost well over 50 grand. That doesn't make much sense as a business model especially since they have to compete with every other manufacturer making cars close to that price range. From what I have seen of MB cars (neighbor has a 2003 clk320), they are actually designed to facilitate routine maintenance. Somebody should have explained this to Ford when they designed their trucks so that removing the back sets of plugs involved laying across the engine after you removed half of it that interfered. That is just one example, but from working on Benz's for the last couple of years and working on a Volvo for about 12 years, I can tell you that Euro cars actually have more thought put into them regarding how this thing will need to be fixed than American cars for sure and maybe some of the Japanese cars as well.
For sure, the quality of all cars has gone up in the last ten years and much more so in the last 20-30. The 80's and 90's American cars were mostly the pits. The Japanese led the change, we followed. The Europeans also had their fair share of clunkers. Anybody have a Saab? Even brands like Acura had problems. Wife had a 2003 that had one of their infamous bad 5 speed trans-axles go at about 63K. Thankfully Acura picked up the bill on that one, would have been about 3500. We ended up dumping it after that for a 2006 since they had gotten past those problems and it has been mostly trouble free. Though I have had to replace the blue-tooth unit as well as send out the nav DVD player to be fixed. Don't know what those two would have cost, but I would guess 3-400 on the bluetooth and probably 500+ on the Nav DVD. I think it cost me about 100 for the bluetooth and 250 for the Nav rebuild. My Toyota has had a long standing issue with draining it's battery if left sitting. Never been able to find out where the issue is. It can kill a battery in a year. Now it sits with a plug in battery maintainer and I don't worry about it or replace batteries. It has also had a bad sensor for TPMS and the winshield washer for years, I just don't pay much attention, it still starts and drives fine.
I priced out extended maintenance plans on this 2010 E. Looked to be about 1200 bucks a year. Ouch. If nothing breaks then you just pissed away 1200 for some peace of mind, just for a year. Then you start over. I decided to hold on to my money and if anything breaks, I'll fix it myself or take it to a local shop that specializes in MB. If I spend less than 1200, I'm ahead. I'm hoping it's a lot less. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, I could be wrong, but I hope not. I could have bought a new Honda or Mazda 6 for what I spent on this car, but neither of those drove like this E class or had all the nice equipment in it. This is a quality built car, complicated for sure, but still well designed and well made. I'll keep up with all the routine maintenance including the oil changes, filters and belts as well as flushing brakes, etc.
So I would tell the OP if he is still listening is that if you are uncomfortable with doing your own work or feel that only a dealer can be trusted with your baby and in the same breath don't want to spend the money, then by all means sell it and get your Honda, Nissan, Subaru etc. Everything breaks, everything needs to be fixed at some point. It's just that MB will charge you out the @$$ for any new parts or labor compared to other more common makes. And I don't think these new E's are any more or less complicated or problematic than a comparable Acura or Ford. They just charge less for parts and labor.
What I've noticed is that it seems most of the folks on this forum are deathly afraid of what might happen when something breaks on one of these w212 cars if they don't have some sort of full warranty coverage to back them up. Coming from the w202 community, nobody had any sort of warranty and the general consensus was that if something breaks or you need to have maintenance done, you would be much better off if you did it yourself or took it to a good indy mechanic. I've been doing most of my own maintenance on all my vehicles for the last 40 years, and while I'm no pro, I can do a good amount of the common stuff like spark plug changes, brakes, belts, hoses and even charge up A/C systems.
To say that MB is building a car that can only last 50K miles before you need to toss it is pretty ridiculous, especially since they cost well over 50 grand. That doesn't make much sense as a business model especially since they have to compete with every other manufacturer making cars close to that price range. From what I have seen of MB cars (neighbor has a 2003 clk320), they are actually designed to facilitate routine maintenance. Somebody should have explained this to Ford when they designed their trucks so that removing the back sets of plugs involved laying across the engine after you removed half of it that interfered. That is just one example, but from working on Benz's for the last couple of years and working on a Volvo for about 12 years, I can tell you that Euro cars actually have more thought put into them regarding how this thing will need to be fixed than American cars for sure and maybe some of the Japanese cars as well.
For sure, the quality of all cars has gone up in the last ten years and much more so in the last 20-30. The 80's and 90's American cars were mostly the pits. The Japanese led the change, we followed. The Europeans also had their fair share of clunkers. Anybody have a Saab? Even brands like Acura had problems. Wife had a 2003 that had one of their infamous bad 5 speed trans-axles go at about 63K. Thankfully Acura picked up the bill on that one, would have been about 3500. We ended up dumping it after that for a 2006 since they had gotten past those problems and it has been mostly trouble free. Though I have had to replace the blue-tooth unit as well as send out the nav DVD player to be fixed. Don't know what those two would have cost, but I would guess 3-400 on the bluetooth and probably 500+ on the Nav DVD. I think it cost me about 100 for the bluetooth and 250 for the Nav rebuild. My Toyota has had a long standing issue with draining it's battery if left sitting. Never been able to find out where the issue is. It can kill a battery in a year. Now it sits with a plug in battery maintainer and I don't worry about it or replace batteries. It has also had a bad sensor for TPMS and the winshield washer for years, I just don't pay much attention, it still starts and drives fine.
I priced out extended maintenance plans on this 2010 E. Looked to be about 1200 bucks a year. Ouch. If nothing breaks then you just pissed away 1200 for some peace of mind, just for a year. Then you start over. I decided to hold on to my money and if anything breaks, I'll fix it myself or take it to a local shop that specializes in MB. If I spend less than 1200, I'm ahead. I'm hoping it's a lot less. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, I could be wrong, but I hope not. I could have bought a new Honda or Mazda 6 for what I spent on this car, but neither of those drove like this E class or had all the nice equipment in it. This is a quality built car, complicated for sure, but still well designed and well made. I'll keep up with all the routine maintenance including the oil changes, filters and belts as well as flushing brakes, etc.
So I would tell the OP if he is still listening is that if you are uncomfortable with doing your own work or feel that only a dealer can be trusted with your baby and in the same breath don't want to spend the money, then by all means sell it and get your Honda, Nissan, Subaru etc. Everything breaks, everything needs to be fixed at some point. It's just that MB will charge you out the @$$ for any new parts or labor compared to other more common makes. And I don't think these new E's are any more or less complicated or problematic than a comparable Acura or Ford. They just charge less for parts and labor.
Last edited by CL600CK60V12; 01-01-2015 at 02:49 PM. Reason: md
01-01-2015, 06:54 PM
#48
Senior Member
I am not crazy enough to own a V12 ABC bleeding edge car out of warranty, aint got time for that
My comment about material quality and image was re: GTR, rather than Japanese cars in general. Japanese luxocruisers do have good materials, of course. But, I still haven't found anything Japanese that has the combination of smooth easy highway ride and at least a little handling, as had by the big 3 Germans in most of the cars, either. From the Lexfinitis I have experienced, you can get one or the other, but not both.
GTR might grip and go like crazy, but in my neck of the woods anyway, it's a bit of a dbag chariot, too flamboyant for me
I admire your courage and effort in maintaining that coupe, eventually, there will be few survivors, and your car will be something unique. The x65 series cars are sometimes tempting now, as depreciation continues to do its work, but I just can't take the plunge.
My comment about material quality and image was re: GTR, rather than Japanese cars in general. Japanese luxocruisers do have good materials, of course. But, I still haven't found anything Japanese that has the combination of smooth easy highway ride and at least a little handling, as had by the big 3 Germans in most of the cars, either. From the Lexfinitis I have experienced, you can get one or the other, but not both.
GTR might grip and go like crazy, but in my neck of the woods anyway, it's a bit of a dbag chariot, too flamboyant for me
I admire your courage and effort in maintaining that coupe, eventually, there will be few survivors, and your car will be something unique. The x65 series cars are sometimes tempting now, as depreciation continues to do its work, but I just can't take the plunge.
@fintail: You have not lived until you owned a CL out of warranty
My points expressed here are very straightforward: 1) Mercedes could do a better job with technical guidance on repairs for these very complex cars instead of harping about "maintenance-free" for certain systems. 2) Drive the car you enjoy. I am fortunate that I get to enjoy not one, not two but three different cars, including this V12 beast.
I will also say that I respectfully disagree with your comment about the ride in Japanese cars. Their finish is impeccable, quality of materials is superb and suspensions are excellent (some softer, some firmer). As for image, if it grips and goes like crazy, that's all I am looking for. Having a "star" on the hood is irrelevant to me.
My points expressed here are very straightforward: 1) Mercedes could do a better job with technical guidance on repairs for these very complex cars instead of harping about "maintenance-free" for certain systems. 2) Drive the car you enjoy. I am fortunate that I get to enjoy not one, not two but three different cars, including this V12 beast.
I will also say that I respectfully disagree with your comment about the ride in Japanese cars. Their finish is impeccable, quality of materials is superb and suspensions are excellent (some softer, some firmer). As for image, if it grips and goes like crazy, that's all I am looking for. Having a "star" on the hood is irrelevant to me.
Last edited by fintail; 01-01-2015 at 06:58 PM.
01-04-2015, 03:19 PM
#49
MBWorld Fanatic!
Issue
Bought a 2010 E350 sport/prem 1 with 45k miles 4 months ago. Had the car checked out w/a mechanic and he gave it the green light. I've driven it 900 miles.
During that 4 month period, I've had to -
1. Get a transmission service due to a new leak
2. Replace the command control knob. I could slide it up and down but it was stripped when rotating. It worked when I bought it.
3. There is an intermittent grinding noise in the console where the sunroof and light controls are. Dealer said it is a fan in there to keep the enclosure cool. It's very annoying.
4. The driver side heated seat turns off after 5 seconds. It too was working when I bought the car.
I have no experience with MB beyond 4 months but I figure that a car that originally listed for 60k with only 45k miles on it, should not be having this many failures or these kinds of problems. I really love this car but don't want to spend more time and money on future problems. I'm 95% going to put it up for sale in the next few weeks depending on the cost to fix the heated seat.
My 2010 Prius with 90,000 miles has never given me one problem. Not one and all I've done is change the oil and tires. The first scheduled maintenance is just coming due now.
During that 4 month period, I've had to -
1. Get a transmission service due to a new leak
2. Replace the command control knob. I could slide it up and down but it was stripped when rotating. It worked when I bought it.
3. There is an intermittent grinding noise in the console where the sunroof and light controls are. Dealer said it is a fan in there to keep the enclosure cool. It's very annoying.
4. The driver side heated seat turns off after 5 seconds. It too was working when I bought the car.
I have no experience with MB beyond 4 months but I figure that a car that originally listed for 60k with only 45k miles on it, should not be having this many failures or these kinds of problems. I really love this car but don't want to spend more time and money on future problems. I'm 95% going to put it up for sale in the next few weeks depending on the cost to fix the heated seat.
My 2010 Prius with 90,000 miles has never given me one problem. Not one and all I've done is change the oil and tires. The first scheduled maintenance is just coming due now.
I was not aware of any fan in the overhead console.
The previous owner had to have been really rough on the Comand knob. Mine is 4 yr old now and works as new.
Was there any record of a previous transmission service? Leaks in my experience are not common.
03-15-2015, 03:04 AM
#50
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2002 S500 AMG Sports, 2006 CL 500AMG Sports, 2003 G 500
Hi there sorry to hear this and I really feel you on the fact you haven't had this car long and it already costing you so much in time, money and stress. Not bragging, but I own 3 MBs and I was always crazed on only taking my cars to the dealer. Well after the warrenties ran out one by one... I changed that tune quick ; )
So..I guess what I'm trying to say is..if your using the MB Dealer you may want to reseach a "Trustworthy, honest and knowledgable MB Automotive. Yes, there are good ones out there. Research it on googles or other search engines. Type in Best MB Automotive Shops reviews and read through them. I did this and found a real good and caring Machanic. I live in Va.
So I hope this helps. Also some Car lots sells cars with water damage and as I sure you know; electrical problems will have you lituerally going in circles.
I hope this isnt the case. If by luck your in Va. too the shop I am talking about is Don Allen Service Center In Alexandria, Va. Again Good Luck
Lisa S.
So..I guess what I'm trying to say is..if your using the MB Dealer you may want to reseach a "Trustworthy, honest and knowledgable MB Automotive. Yes, there are good ones out there. Research it on googles or other search engines. Type in Best MB Automotive Shops reviews and read through them. I did this and found a real good and caring Machanic. I live in Va.
So I hope this helps. Also some Car lots sells cars with water damage and as I sure you know; electrical problems will have you lituerally going in circles.
I hope this isnt the case. If by luck your in Va. too the shop I am talking about is Don Allen Service Center In Alexandria, Va. Again Good Luck
Lisa S.
