J.D.Power 2015 reliability rankings
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
J.D.Power 2015 reliability rankings
J.D. Power just released reliability rankings based on 2012 vehicles. MB finished 8th behind Lexus, Buick, Toyota, Cadillac, , Honda, Porsche and Lincoln.
"E" Class was ranked best midsized premium car in Top Three Models Per Segment. No other MB's were ranked.
Largest complaints were Bluetooth connectivity and voice systems not understanding.
"E" Class was ranked best midsized premium car in Top Three Models Per Segment. No other MB's were ranked.
Largest complaints were Bluetooth connectivity and voice systems not understanding.
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Joined: Apr 2014
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From: California
w212 E350 Bluetec & Mk7 GTI Sport
Mercedes, and german engineering in general, is for a man who understands the best things in life are complicated. Being neck and neck with Lexus (using alot of carryover toyota parts and design research) is a great ranking. Simp;e things are often easier to amke last long, but no merceds is simple.
Mercedes engineers up to a standard, alot of companies engineer down to a price point. The pieces that you repair on a car last as long as the originals usually, so repurchasing 1/3. of your car in ten years to make it last anotehr ten is worthy in my books as 'reliable'. For any brand. Anything better than that is just extra credit
Mercedes engineers up to a standard, alot of companies engineer down to a price point. The pieces that you repair on a car last as long as the originals usually, so repurchasing 1/3. of your car in ten years to make it last anotehr ten is worthy in my books as 'reliable'. For any brand. Anything better than that is just extra credit
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From: Zion
W212 E550 4M P2
Help, I don't understand your point. If I take you literally, "re-purchasing 1/3 of your car in 10 yrs" would mean $20k in 10 yrs in my case (assuming a $60k sales price new). I don't want to live that definition of reliability.
Does this $20k include maintenance? Over 10 yrs, I guess that could be $10k. It still leaves $10k left for parts. You're scaring me if this is what I have to look forward to...
For comparison purposes, I just came out of a 13-14 year old Lexus that I drove for 10. It was the picture of low cost ownership even though 80% of its services were at the stealership. Two oil changes a year and then one when I moved to synthetic. One seized brake caliper. One, maybe two sets of brake pads / rotors. Two door lock actuators. Timing belt. Ball parking it on this car that sold for just shy of $60k new, I come up with less than $4k for parts and maintenance over 10 yrs.
Does this $20k include maintenance? Over 10 yrs, I guess that could be $10k. It still leaves $10k left for parts. You're scaring me if this is what I have to look forward to...
For comparison purposes, I just came out of a 13-14 year old Lexus that I drove for 10. It was the picture of low cost ownership even though 80% of its services were at the stealership. Two oil changes a year and then one when I moved to synthetic. One seized brake caliper. One, maybe two sets of brake pads / rotors. Two door lock actuators. Timing belt. Ball parking it on this car that sold for just shy of $60k new, I come up with less than $4k for parts and maintenance over 10 yrs.
Last edited by Johnny Rad; Feb 27, 2015 at 11:54 PM.
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Good points
Help, I don't understand your point. If I take you literally, "re-purchasing 1/3 of your car in 10 yrs" would mean $20k in 10 yrs in my case (assuming a $60k sales price new). I don't want to live that definition of reliability.
Does this $20k include maintenance? Over 10 yrs, I guess that could be $10k. It still leaves $10k left for parts. You're scaring me if this is what I have to look forward to...
For comparison purposes, I just came out of a 13-14 year old Lexus that I drove for 10. It was the picture of low cost ownership even though 80% of its services were at the stealership. Two oil changes a year and then one when I moved to synthetic. One seized brake caliper. One, maybe two sets of brake pads / rotors. Two door lock actuators. Timing belt. Ball parking it on this car that sold for just shy of $60k new, I come up with less than $4k for parts and maintenance over 10 yrs.
Does this $20k include maintenance? Over 10 yrs, I guess that could be $10k. It still leaves $10k left for parts. You're scaring me if this is what I have to look forward to...
For comparison purposes, I just came out of a 13-14 year old Lexus that I drove for 10. It was the picture of low cost ownership even though 80% of its services were at the stealership. Two oil changes a year and then one when I moved to synthetic. One seized brake caliper. One, maybe two sets of brake pads / rotors. Two door lock actuators. Timing belt. Ball parking it on this car that sold for just shy of $60k new, I come up with less than $4k for parts and maintenance over 10 yrs.
Regardless, replacing 1/3 of your car in ten years is terrible. I have driven Fords, Mazdas, Toyotas for over ten years/100,000 miles without replacing anything other than routine maintenance. Heck, didn't even have to replace the brake pads.
The other issue is that M-B has never been in top five or maybe even top 10 for reliability as a manufacturer in most surveys.
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2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
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From: California
w212 E350 Bluetec & Mk7 GTI Sport
I am overall exhausted by asian car loyalists who try to advocate their longevity with basically no factual evidence. Overall, coworkers, friends and my own experienced owning two acuras (friend with infinitis, lexus, toyota (Who share parts btw), etc) requiring 5000 repairs immediately after the 100000 mile warranty period. For a 30,000 car, thats officially a good percentage. Put anotehr few years on that car, fix a few more parts. **** i put nearly 7500 into my own acura tsx before selling it at 150000(non maintenance/tire/brake/fluids(. So do the math on that.
Mercedes = better parts, more expensive part, and longer lasting parts.
I am quite happy to replace 1/3 of the cost of my car for its entire lifetime. Each time a part is replaced it should last as long as the original. 1/3 of 52000 msrp is reasonable for getting 200000 out of it.
Mercedes = better parts, more expensive part, and longer lasting parts.
I am quite happy to replace 1/3 of the cost of my car for its entire lifetime. Each time a part is replaced it should last as long as the original. 1/3 of 52000 msrp is reasonable for getting 200000 out of it.
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From: Zion
W212 E550 4M P2
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
I had to replace (under warranty) far more parts on my "E" than I did on the last 10 Asian and American cars I have owned combined. Also, my "E" often was at dealership for up to 3 days being repaired.
Every reliable source that reports on auto reliability ranks Lexus above M-B. On the average, most Asian luxury cars rank above European cars, especially M-B.
The issue is M-B can do better - why don't they?
Every reliable source that reports on auto reliability ranks Lexus above M-B. On the average, most Asian luxury cars rank above European cars, especially M-B.
The issue is M-B can do better - why don't they?
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Visit Truedelta.com http://www.truedelta.com/car-reliabi...=2004&max=2014
This shows a 10 year record at that site.
This shows a 10 year record at that site.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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From: Zion
W212 E550 4M P2
I've lived the life of reliable and somewhat boring Lexus cars and SUVs. It is / was a no-stress deal. Mine just keep / kept plugging along with very little expenditure.
Now I'm living the Merc magic that is modern turbocharging and I'm dying to find out how much more - if any - it'll cost me. I'm OK with "some," but there is a line. Life is a trade-off and cars are no different ... or are they?!
Reliability rankings clearly exist from loads of different sources, but what's the real world difference between the top of the list, the middle and the bottom? This isn't rhetorical or sarcastic.
* What does an UNreliable car really mean?
* How much more do they cost you?
* Do they strand you?
>>>>>>>>
By the way, I believe JD Power's 3 year Vehicle Dependability Study (like the OP posted above) is a much better indicator of a car's reliability than their Initial Quality Study (IQS) that only covers the first 90 days of its life.
http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dependability.htm
http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Me...oupe/index.htm
Now I'm living the Merc magic that is modern turbocharging and I'm dying to find out how much more - if any - it'll cost me. I'm OK with "some," but there is a line. Life is a trade-off and cars are no different ... or are they?!
Reliability rankings clearly exist from loads of different sources, but what's the real world difference between the top of the list, the middle and the bottom? This isn't rhetorical or sarcastic.
* What does an UNreliable car really mean?
* How much more do they cost you?
* Do they strand you?
>>>>>>>>
By the way, I believe JD Power's 3 year Vehicle Dependability Study (like the OP posted above) is a much better indicator of a car's reliability than their Initial Quality Study (IQS) that only covers the first 90 days of its life.
http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dependability.htm
http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Me...oupe/index.htm
Last edited by Johnny Rad; Feb 28, 2015 at 05:54 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 268
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From: California
w212 E350 Bluetec & Mk7 GTI Sport
Haha... the gs intake manifold is plastic. The lexus 200h hatchback thing is mostly a prius dude. Do the research.
Anyway, their interior is weak. Im glad you enjoyed the extended life of that car, but there are quite a number of e classes in europe/asia/etc that have hundreds of thousands as taxis etc etc you all know this, so why try to make it seem like the cars are bad? How about this? Americans are bad TO their cars. They beat the **** out of them and their kids drive over huge potholes and they yell at the dealers. Im sorry but my bosses lexus sux 80000 for it a 1300 a month lease, looks ike, rides like and feels like a toyota. im sorry. The exterior and paint is amazing (not a lexus hater; and were NOT comparing engine strength. im not saying mbz are better performance) but otherwise unimpressive physically.
Besides, arent they literally ONE spot away form each other on this survey? sooo..... whats the margin?
Anyway, their interior is weak. Im glad you enjoyed the extended life of that car, but there are quite a number of e classes in europe/asia/etc that have hundreds of thousands as taxis etc etc you all know this, so why try to make it seem like the cars are bad? How about this? Americans are bad TO their cars. They beat the **** out of them and their kids drive over huge potholes and they yell at the dealers. Im sorry but my bosses lexus sux 80000 for it a 1300 a month lease, looks ike, rides like and feels like a toyota. im sorry. The exterior and paint is amazing (not a lexus hater; and were NOT comparing engine strength. im not saying mbz are better performance) but otherwise unimpressive physically.
Besides, arent they literally ONE spot away form each other on this survey? sooo..... whats the margin?
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 764
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From: North Carolina
2010 E350, 2015 S550
My 2010 E350, bought new, has been the most reliable car I have owned. Previous cars, Toyota Avalon & Solara, Nissan Maxima & 300 ZX, Audi A6 & VW Jetta, Jeep Grand Cherokee.
By far fewest non maintenance repairs of all of the above. Hope it continues.
By far fewest non maintenance repairs of all of the above. Hope it continues.
Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 134
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2014 E550 Cabriolet, 2014 Porsche Cayenne Diesel
Between 3 BMW, 3 Audis, 1 Jag, 1 Porsche, 5 Hondas, 2 Acuras, 2 Toyotas, 2 Nissans, 1 Volkswagen and about 10 other cars over the years, my biggest mistake was my new Mercedes. Two shop visits in 1200 miles, quality that is not apparent and a depreciation slope that is mind boggling. It is a gorgeous and fast machine, but is really a play toy for as long as I choose to fund it.
If you really want to understand value, look at how easy it is to sell a Honda or Toyota with over 100k miles. Yes, I know the Asian cars are boring, and I don't really enjoy driving any of them except for my two Honda Prelude Sis. No answers here, just know what you are getting involved with.
If you really want to understand value, look at how easy it is to sell a Honda or Toyota with over 100k miles. Yes, I know the Asian cars are boring, and I don't really enjoy driving any of them except for my two Honda Prelude Sis. No answers here, just know what you are getting involved with.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 764
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From: North Carolina
2010 E350, 2015 S550
Just curious, what were the repairs for and was this the first 1200 miles of ownership?
I'll bet I have that way beat with my Avalon, Cherokee and Audi repairs. Audi was replaced because the paint pealed off of the hood. Replacement, (new) held up better till about just out of warranty. Rear wheel bearinigs, brake sensors, leaking cylinder head gaskets. That car cost me $700 everytime I went to the dealership. The maxima failed after about 50,000 miles. Complete fuel injection system overhaul that time. $1200 thank you vaunted Asian quality.
Yes the depreciation on these cars is killer and well known before you purchase. The depreciation on the Avalon was pretty killer too as I recall. To many recalls and failures was the culpret there.
Don't have much experince with Hondas, except the two wheel variety. That has been spotless an perfect for 10 years. I think the cars are no different. But there is no comparison between a Honda accord and an E class.
I'll bet I have that way beat with my Avalon, Cherokee and Audi repairs. Audi was replaced because the paint pealed off of the hood. Replacement, (new) held up better till about just out of warranty. Rear wheel bearinigs, brake sensors, leaking cylinder head gaskets. That car cost me $700 everytime I went to the dealership. The maxima failed after about 50,000 miles. Complete fuel injection system overhaul that time. $1200 thank you vaunted Asian quality.
Yes the depreciation on these cars is killer and well known before you purchase. The depreciation on the Avalon was pretty killer too as I recall. To many recalls and failures was the culpret there.
Don't have much experince with Hondas, except the two wheel variety. That has been spotless an perfect for 10 years. I think the cars are no different. But there is no comparison between a Honda accord and an E class.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 182
Likes: 2
e550
I don't place as much weight on warranty repairs that can wait until oil changes but unscheduled and especially stranded on side of road issues deserve to be accounted for differently the surveys often do not reflect those circumstances.
Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 134
Likes: 6
2014 E550 Cabriolet, 2014 Porsche Cayenne Diesel
Just curious, what were the repairs for and was this the first 1200 miles of ownership?
I'll bet I have that way beat with my Avalon, Cherokee and Audi repairs. Audi was replaced because the paint pealed off of the hood. Replacement, (new) held up better till about just out of warranty. Rear wheel bearinigs, brake sensors, leaking cylinder head gaskets. That car cost me $700 everytime I went to the dealership. The maxima failed after about 50,000 miles. Complete fuel injection system overhaul that time. $1200 thank you vaunted Asian quality.
Yes the depreciation on these cars is killer and well known before you purchase. The depreciation on the Avalon was pretty killer too as I recall. To many recalls and failures was the culpret there.
Don't have much experince with Hondas, except the two wheel variety. That has been spotless an perfect for 10 years. I think the cars are no different. But there is no comparison between a Honda accord and an E class.
I'll bet I have that way beat with my Avalon, Cherokee and Audi repairs. Audi was replaced because the paint pealed off of the hood. Replacement, (new) held up better till about just out of warranty. Rear wheel bearinigs, brake sensors, leaking cylinder head gaskets. That car cost me $700 everytime I went to the dealership. The maxima failed after about 50,000 miles. Complete fuel injection system overhaul that time. $1200 thank you vaunted Asian quality.
Yes the depreciation on these cars is killer and well known before you purchase. The depreciation on the Avalon was pretty killer too as I recall. To many recalls and failures was the culpret there.
Don't have much experince with Hondas, except the two wheel variety. That has been spotless an perfect for 10 years. I think the cars are no different. But there is no comparison between a Honda accord and an E class.
I am done with Audis- they just got worse. Jeep-lease it and return it. Nissan- I've had good luck, but least favorite to drive- had a 1994 Maxima and 2001 Pathfinder- worst driving cars I've ever owned. I have had great luck with BMWs, but they forgot the recipe for enthusiast cars.
I would feel lucky with one $1,200 repair on my car in 50,000 miles- but it would depend on how old the car is.
Frankly, I think the secret is lease as much car as you can and bring it back in three years. Post warranty repairs have become ridiculous on the high end cars.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 703
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From: Boston Area
2021 Mojave Silver E450, 2024 Black on Black Jaguar F-pace P400, 2011 335d (RIP), 2010 E350 (sold)
Just curious, what were the repairs for and was this the first 1200 miles of ownership?
I'll bet I have that way beat with my Avalon, Cherokee and Audi repairs. Audi was replaced because the paint pealed off of the hood. Replacement, (new) held up better till about just out of warranty. Rear wheel bearinigs, brake sensors, leaking cylinder head gaskets. That car cost me $700 everytime I went to the dealership. The maxima failed after about 50,000 miles. Complete fuel injection system overhaul that time. $1200 thank you vaunted Asian quality.
I'll bet I have that way beat with my Avalon, Cherokee and Audi repairs. Audi was replaced because the paint pealed off of the hood. Replacement, (new) held up better till about just out of warranty. Rear wheel bearinigs, brake sensors, leaking cylinder head gaskets. That car cost me $700 everytime I went to the dealership. The maxima failed after about 50,000 miles. Complete fuel injection system overhaul that time. $1200 thank you vaunted Asian quality.
$1200 for a complete fuel injection system overhaul. Sounds like a significant amount of work.
One butt warmer on my E350 would have cost about $1400 if not for the CPO warranty. Not saying that this is by any means a fair comparison or anything, but I believe the heating pad is right about $200 on line.
I know this is more of a dealer issue as opposed to one of reliability, but still, knowing what the MB dealer wants for that job, $1200 for a fuel system work seems, I don't know, reasonable
.
