Haffster

I've narrowed my search for a 2012 E350 4M (with a lot of help from people here - thanks, all of you amazingly helpful people) and will be deciding between 3 almost identical vehicles (in terms of price, options and mileage).

I just want to close out one nagging question in my mind. And that's whether I should get the 2015 E250 BT instead.

Although I'd prefer to spend less (for the 2012 gas E350), I can dish out for the new diesel - if I can get my head around the longevity question, which is:

The 2012 gas E350 has about 40,000 KMs (about 25k miles), one year of original warranty (which I will extend to another 2). Presume 25k miles is not too bad for a 3 year old car?

My intent is to keep the vehicle for another 6 years or so (longer if it is running along nicely and not breaking the bank).

I don't drive much - about 12k to 15k KMs (7.5k to 9k miles) per year. Mostly local, a little bit of highway

My sense is that a nicely picked and nicely maintained vehicle (with a bit of luck) should last me 6/7 years.

On the other hand - I test drove the new E250 BT a few times and I really like the car (reminds me of my dad's cars and his oft repeated cliche: I love to drive a bmw and love to be driven in a merc). I do prefer the heavier feel of the gas and its zippiness, but the diesel is just fine for my every day driving.

I'm indifferent to the fuel savings (between gas/diesel).

My question is - assuming a little bit of luck, and lots of TLC for the car - is the newer diesel likely to last me longer? If I can, within reason, expect it to last me 10/11 years (with about say a 150k KMs - say about 100k miles), this would be a huge preference.

Would love your thoughts on this. Thanks

DerekACS

Having previously owned a 2013 E350BT RWD, I am now driving a 2015 E250BT 4M. Besides the styling enhancements, both inside and out, I really appreciate the performance improvements and safety upgrades that are part of the MY2015 E250BT. For example, the 7 spd transmission is faster and smoother, the steering is more precise and the car handles better.

For MY2014+, MB upgraded the W212 body structure so that this car could achieve the Top Safety Pick + rating from IIHS, the only German sedan so awarded. For MY2015, MB added Collision Prevention Assist Plus with autonomous braking.

You said the fuel savings didn't matter, but what about range ? For highway trips, the E250BT 4M would easily run for more than 1200 km per tank. You couldn't come close to that figure in an E350 with a gas engine.

As for longevity, the OMD651 diesel, introduced in late 2008, is one of MB's most reliable and long lived power plants. It is built in about 20 different variants for world wide markets; used in E Class taxis and Sprinter vans. This engine with its cast iron block, if properly maintained, should easily run for over 400,000 km.

If you do decide to go for the 2015/2016 E250BT 4M, I would strongly suggest that you get the full LED lighting system ( improved performance over the bi-zenons) and the leather interior, which is so much nicer than MBTex (Artico). With the leather option, you can also get the Artico stitched dash and window sills.

Obviously, you would have to weigh the additional cost of the 2015 E250BT 4M over the 2012 E350. If you are in Canada, MB is currently offering very attractive financing, 0.9% over five years (practically free money !) and discounts are available. No doubt MBUSA is also offering competitive financing and the dealers seem to discount to an even greater extent. Since you are contemplating keeping your MB for 8-10 years, I would suggest, for reasons stated above, that the 2015 E250BT would make more sense as your long term choice.

CarolinaBluetec

As you can tell by my screen name I like diesels. But for the current car I chose a 350 gas model. The primary reason was that I saved well over 20 K by buying a CPO 2013 model with 15 K miles vs new car. I just could not justify the price differential even though I could afford it.

Haffster

Thanks. I'm in a somewhat similar quandary - 2012 E350 gas with 25k miles on it vs. a new E250 BT with a US$15k price difference. I can afford the difference, but trying to figure out whether its prudent to do so.

Arrie

I would look for a used low mileage diesel but if you are in Canada it could be hard to find.

Haffster

I know Arrie - the only low mileage E250s I see are demo vehicles.

DerekACS

That's likely because the present owners of E250BTs are so satisfied with their
cars ! This is confirmed by Consumer Reports which awarded the E Class diesel its highest 'customer satisfaction rating', higher than any other car model !

drsaab

Actually in sedans the e250bt was number 2. Rated at 88. The tesla model S is highest ever at 98. Still very good rating!

Some sports cars like the corvettes and porches were in the low 90 range.

Haffster

Also, since it was only launched in 2013, lease returns would not be coming in that soon - and im not waiting until next year. Not sure if they did many 24 month leases, but even those won't be coming in before a few months at least. Hence my apples to oranges question - comparing a demo diesel with a '12 gas E350.

Alex.currie44

I have the 2011 E350 4Matic gas wagon with 55000 km.
Great car, 4 years old, I just upped the warranty to 100000km and 3 more years for much less than $15000. Mixed driving is 10.4L/!00 km at 56 kph consistently so a diesel ain't going to put $15000 in my pocket over the next 3 yr.
I see no reason for my car not to last me at least another 8-10 yr.
You sound much like me in driving habits so the 2012 would be my choice. Also, from what you read here about issues with the newer cars, the 2012 is all sorted whereas the newer ones seem to have issues.
Just my preference.

Haffster

Thanks Alex. That's what I'm leaning towards, just wanted to get the new diesel thought out of the way! The 2012 im looking at has one year of original warranty left and 2 years of star. I can convert the star into original for $2300, which what I intend to do.

DerekACS

[QUOTE=Alex.currie44;6367431 Also, from what you read here about issues with the newer cars, the 2012 is all sorted whereas the newer ones seem to have issues.[/QUOTE]

Not sure on what data you base this comment ? What one reads on this forum is hardly a scientifically accurate sample on which to base a conclusion.

If you consult www.truedelta.com or www.consumerreports.org for Mercedes E Class Reliability ratings, you would find that the 2014 W212 is rated considerably more reliable than the 2010-2012 W212 models. Furthermore, CR rates the diesels considerably higher than the V6 gas engined versions for 'Owner Satisfaction'.

Alex.currie44

I read a number of different forums on the W212 and the R170 each day.
There are more issues with the newer cars it seems be it tranny issues, connectivity issues, shifting issues, NAV system issues, Audio issues you name it all over these sites.
Now whether we are talking about 100 peope regularly contributing or 1000 I have no idea but the impression one gets is there are a lots of issues in the 2013-2015 years.
I have also experienced only two issues with my 2011 E350 4Matic wagon. Air valve and bags in the rear early on and a phantom noise from underneath the car that disappeared as strangely as it arose.
I learned how to keep the ECU fresh and that is it.

Trancebolt

More electronics = More problems;
Im an i.t. admin. As much as new tech is great, the more the touchier your product will be. Im not getting a self driving car with wifi and all this crap so somebody can hack into my car and kill me. Lol. Truly though, the problems with shifting on the w212 is the siemens valve body computer, theres like a Court case between them about it. The whole dashboard screen thing is laggy too 2012+

I love mine, and i wouldnt even have minded a hybrid, but truly the less tech you have the better. I have a 350 bt 2012.

I know the om651 motor is not new, and truly has been stress tested. Just pick which cars character makes you love it and want to fix it everytime it has anything wrong; Then youll win every day!

Haffster

That's great advice, Trancebolt - thanks. And that's exactly how I feel about it. Much as I love tech and gadgets, I'd really rather have less of them for the reasons you mention. I'd much prefer a solid car that drives beautifully than let that experience be marred by silly little things failing, a lot of which I really couldn't care much about to begin with.

thefisch

some tech is overrated even when there are no bugs. Some tech can really enhance your driving experience.

My concern is self driving cars take the visceral experience out of driving. Maybe that's a good thing for some people, but I enjoy driving for the most part. I guess it depends on how it's implemented - is it a safety feature or more like public transportation.

DerekACS

Instead of offering your un-informed opinions on "the newer ones", based on a few anecdotal reports, maybe you should take a look at the reliability ratings @ either Consumer Reports or www.truedelta.com. They both offer ratings based on factual data, not opinions.

Both confirm that "the newer ones" (i.e. MY2014+) are more reliable ! This should be no surprise to well informed observers of German cars. Typically as the model run ages, reliability improves. When a new generation model is introduced, reliability can take a huge dip (sometimes for up to 2 or 3 model years, e.g.. W211). A more recent example is occurring with early production 2015 W205, plagued with issues (oozing MBTex seats, wind noises, electrical gremlins, poorly fitted bumpers & tail lights, etc.). It remains to be seen how long it will take MBUSA to sort out these problems that originate with the Alabama plant and its new suppliers.