Is it OK to drive with ESC off?
01-06-2016, 07:17 PM
#26
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Driving the car with ESC off does not hurt it. I would do it myself but turning the ESC off disables the cruise control that I always run with (Distronic) so I choose to keep ESC on.
I get the warning for traction sometimes even on dry roads. The E550 can put down some power but for a 4Matic it sounds weird.
Perhaps your rear tires have worn so much smaller that you are close to the alarm even when not slipping at all and you get the warning (and power loss) from the slightest slip on the wheels. The rear tires with the staggered setup (265/35-R18 rear, 245/40-R18 front) are about 13/32" smaller in diameter to start with compared to the front tires.
I get the warning for traction sometimes even on dry roads. The E550 can put down some power but for a 4Matic it sounds weird.
Perhaps your rear tires have worn so much smaller that you are close to the alarm even when not slipping at all and you get the warning (and power loss) from the slightest slip on the wheels. The rear tires with the staggered setup (265/35-R18 rear, 245/40-R18 front) are about 13/32" smaller in diameter to start with compared to the front tires.
01-06-2016, 07:19 PM
#27
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It is simple. Since low tire pressure increases the risk of an accident, many manufacturers will compensate by limiting power by using their nannies.
Since it is illegal for a repair shop to disable a Federally mandated safety system (like TPMS), they cannot diagnose the problem with repairing the TPMS first.
In addition, they'll blame it on your staggered tires too, so diagnosing this independently (after you've added the sensors) is your best bet.
Since it is illegal for a repair shop to disable a Federally mandated safety system (like TPMS), they cannot diagnose the problem with repairing the TPMS first.
In addition, they'll blame it on your staggered tires too, so diagnosing this independently (after you've added the sensors) is your best bet.
01-06-2016, 09:41 PM
#29
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Canadian W/S212 (non-AMG) don't use TPM sensors in the wheels (code 475), they use the wheel speed sensors (code 477) to determine if a tire is low on air.
Suggesting that the (absence of) TPMS would have an impact on the logic used for ESC would suggest that Daimler developed two different stability control programs for cars with 475 vs cars with 477. This is highly doubtful and would actually be dangerous in the event that a battery went dead in one wheel, for example. Or worse in situations like the Maybach/SLR where the TPMS system was horribly unreliable to the point that the only solution was to disable it.
I think you'll find that the ESC takes input from the wheel speed sensors, not from the TPMS in cars so equipped.
Perhaps its just time for new tires.
Suggesting that the (absence of) TPMS would have an impact on the logic used for ESC would suggest that Daimler developed two different stability control programs for cars with 475 vs cars with 477. This is highly doubtful and would actually be dangerous in the event that a battery went dead in one wheel, for example. Or worse in situations like the Maybach/SLR where the TPMS system was horribly unreliable to the point that the only solution was to disable it.
I think you'll find that the ESC takes input from the wheel speed sensors, not from the TPMS in cars so equipped.
Perhaps its just time for new tires.
01-06-2016, 09:45 PM
#30
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by YYZ-E55
Canadian W/S212 (non-AMG) don't use TPM sensors in the wheels (code 475), they use the wheel speed sensors (code 477) to determine if a tire is low on air.
Suggesting that the (absence of) TPMS would have an impact on the logic used for ESC would suggest that Daimler developed two different stability control programs for cars with 475 vs cars with 477. This is highly doubtful and would actually be dangerous in the event that a battery went dead in one wheel, for example. Or worse in situations like the Maybach/SLR where the TPMS system was horribly unreliable to the point that the only solution was to disable it.
I think you'll find that the ESC takes input from the wheel speed sensors, not from the TPMS in cars so equipped.
Perhaps its just time for new tires.
Suggesting that the (absence of) TPMS would have an impact on the logic used for ESC would suggest that Daimler developed two different stability control programs for cars with 475 vs cars with 477. This is highly doubtful and would actually be dangerous in the event that a battery went dead in one wheel, for example. Or worse in situations like the Maybach/SLR where the TPMS system was horribly unreliable to the point that the only solution was to disable it.
I think you'll find that the ESC takes input from the wheel speed sensors, not from the TPMS in cars so equipped.
Perhaps its just time for new tires.
01-06-2016, 11:00 PM
#31
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[QUOTE=YYZ-E55;6667366]Canadian W/S212 (non-AMG) don't use TPM sensors in the wheels (code 475), they use the wheel speed sensors (code 477) to determine if a tire is low on air.
I love this stuff. So, as usual, American bureaucrats have imposed an inferior system on the driving public. (Probably due to numerous and substantial cash contributions to those making the rules by those making the inferior products). Most US sensors are powered by non-replaceable batteries, and, therefore, will require the entire sensor to be replaced. Supposedly they last 7 to 10 years, but many car makers recommend replacement at 5 years. Surprise, surprise.
Perfectly understandable why we would "choose" this system as opposed to one that never wears out and never needs replacement, because it really doesn't exist.
I love this stuff. So, as usual, American bureaucrats have imposed an inferior system on the driving public. (Probably due to numerous and substantial cash contributions to those making the rules by those making the inferior products). Most US sensors are powered by non-replaceable batteries, and, therefore, will require the entire sensor to be replaced. Supposedly they last 7 to 10 years, but many car makers recommend replacement at 5 years. Surprise, surprise.
Perfectly understandable why we would "choose" this system as opposed to one that never wears out and never needs replacement, because it really doesn't exist.
01-07-2016, 10:51 AM
#32
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Thread Starter
[QUOTE=Cao Black;6667459]
I think it's an understatement that these cars have way too many electronics! It's one thing to be safe, but to have a safety glitch turn into something potentially dangerous? That's not good design. IMO.
And yes, it's all about "business".
Canadian W/S212 (non-AMG) don't use TPM sensors in the wheels (code 475), they use the wheel speed sensors (code 477) to determine if a tire is low on air.
I love this stuff. So, as usual, American bureaucrats have imposed an inferior system on the driving public. (Probably due to numerous and substantial cash contributions to those making the rules by those making the inferior products). Most US sensors are powered by non-replaceable batteries, and, therefore, will require the entire sensor to be replaced. Supposedly they last 7 to 10 years, but many car makers recommend replacement at 5 years. Surprise, surprise.
Perfectly understandable why we would "choose" this system as opposed to one that never wears out and never needs replacement, because it really doesn't exist.
I love this stuff. So, as usual, American bureaucrats have imposed an inferior system on the driving public. (Probably due to numerous and substantial cash contributions to those making the rules by those making the inferior products). Most US sensors are powered by non-replaceable batteries, and, therefore, will require the entire sensor to be replaced. Supposedly they last 7 to 10 years, but many car makers recommend replacement at 5 years. Surprise, surprise.
Perfectly understandable why we would "choose" this system as opposed to one that never wears out and never needs replacement, because it really doesn't exist.
And yes, it's all about "business".
01-07-2016, 06:44 PM
#33
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I love this stuff. So, as usual, American bureaucrats have imposed an inferior system on the driving public. (Probably due to numerous and substantial cash contributions to those making the rules by those making the inferior products). Most US sensors are powered by non-replaceable batteries, and, therefore, will require the entire sensor to be replaced. Supposedly they last 7 to 10 years, but many car makers recommend replacement at 5 years. Surprise, surprise.
Perfectly understandable why we would "choose" this system as opposed to one that never wears out and never needs replacement, because it really doesn't exist.
Perfectly understandable why we would "choose" this system as opposed to one that never wears out and never needs replacement, because it really doesn't exist.
01-09-2016, 12:46 AM
#34
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Certainly it is ok to drive having it off, otherwise you simply wouldn't have the possibility. A friend of mine drives BMW and he has it off for same reason, it prevents car to take off under heavy acceleration. If you like a feel of a rocket drive then sure keep it off and enjoy.
01-09-2016, 12:15 PM
#35
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2013 E550 4Matic
For snow, I usually turn ESC off in my 4Matic because I've had a few instances where I'll hit a patch of black ice under the snow and lose all steering control as the car attempts to stop, which ends in me just sliding in whatever direction I was headed, which could be towards a curb... without ESC, I can still steer and apply power to the wheels (whichever happen to have traction, as it's supposed to work) in order to correct for the sliding... In other words, I think it's a little too intrusive for snow. This makes things a bit more "fun" if you have the stomach for it, though I imagine most people with MBs won't be so inclined to slide around their babies for "fun." I've never had an AWD car before this one, but the 4Matic really impressed me the first time I took it out in the snow. It's also important to have good tires, obviously.
In the rain or normal conditions I leave ESC on, since I'm not trying to have "fun" and for the cruise control. For RWD models I can't really see a condition why you'd want to turn it off unless you were doing burnouts or something... which makes sense somewhat for AMG owners, but that's just a waste of tires lol
As for the TPMS issue, I had my new wheels installed for awhile without resetting the TPMS so I never got readings from them, but I never got any warning lights from it. I thought it was odd, especially now that some of you report having warning lights... but the weather was generally nice and I wasn't in a situation where traction was in jeopardy, so I can't comment on how the ESC system works without TPMS sensors reporting back.
In the rain or normal conditions I leave ESC on, since I'm not trying to have "fun" and for the cruise control. For RWD models I can't really see a condition why you'd want to turn it off unless you were doing burnouts or something... which makes sense somewhat for AMG owners, but that's just a waste of tires lol
As for the TPMS issue, I had my new wheels installed for awhile without resetting the TPMS so I never got readings from them, but I never got any warning lights from it. I thought it was odd, especially now that some of you report having warning lights... but the weather was generally nice and I wasn't in a situation where traction was in jeopardy, so I can't comment on how the ESC system works without TPMS sensors reporting back.
01-10-2016, 07:14 PM
#36
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[QUOTE=Cao Black;6667459]
Both systems were considered by the regulators and the system without sensors has two significant drawbacks.
At the time of the TREAD Act, studies showed that about 25% of cars on the road had significantly low pressures in all tires.
Time (about 1psi per month) and temperature (1psi per every 10 degrees change) combine to slowly reduce the psi in all 4 tires. Accordingly, you can be running low pressure in all tires and there would be no difference in rotational speed.
Additionally, the passive system is very slow to react to catastrophic air loss.
The US regulators made the right choice in mandating an active system.
Canadian W/S212 (non-AMG) don't use TPM sensors in the wheels (code 475), they use the wheel speed sensors (code 477) to determine if a tire is low on air.
I love this stuff. So, as usual, American bureaucrats have imposed an inferior system on the driving public. (Probably due to numerous and substantial cash contributions to those making the rules by those making the inferior products). Most US sensors are powered by non-replaceable batteries, and, therefore, will require the entire sensor to be replaced. Supposedly they last 7 to 10 years, but many car makers recommend replacement at 5 years. Surprise, surprise.
Perfectly understandable why we would "choose" this system as opposed to one that never wears out and never needs replacement, because it really doesn't exist.
I love this stuff. So, as usual, American bureaucrats have imposed an inferior system on the driving public. (Probably due to numerous and substantial cash contributions to those making the rules by those making the inferior products). Most US sensors are powered by non-replaceable batteries, and, therefore, will require the entire sensor to be replaced. Supposedly they last 7 to 10 years, but many car makers recommend replacement at 5 years. Surprise, surprise.
Perfectly understandable why we would "choose" this system as opposed to one that never wears out and never needs replacement, because it really doesn't exist.
I believe the active system was implemented by NHTSA due to the Firestone Tire/Explorer roll-overs. The active system with sensors in each wheel is great in that you can check the exact pressure from the comfort of the driver's seat but as you've stated it comes at the cost of complexity and maintenance.
At the time of the TREAD Act, studies showed that about 25% of cars on the road had significantly low pressures in all tires.
Time (about 1psi per month) and temperature (1psi per every 10 degrees change) combine to slowly reduce the psi in all 4 tires. Accordingly, you can be running low pressure in all tires and there would be no difference in rotational speed.
Additionally, the passive system is very slow to react to catastrophic air loss.
The US regulators made the right choice in mandating an active system.
