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So I have been having a "lurch" problem when releasing the brake after a stop, it almost seems like there is an issue with the TQ converter. As i only have about 2k miles left on my warranty it has been making me nervous. Also, there is a bit of chatter from the front end on tight turns. Both ended up being "nothing" according to the dealer. I am going for a 2nd opinion next week, but i digress.
So, they handed me a '16 E400 sport model. Silver, black interior.
What I liked:
1) the keyless go is a must, I do not have that on my vehicle, but since I bought our '15 Jeep GC I am unsure why MB decides to leave this an option on anything but a BASE model versions.
2) The adaptive Head Lights are amazing, anyone who has not driven a car with them cannot understand/appreciate it, they should be required by law, instead of stupid back up cameras.
3) the stock tires are leaps and bounds better than the ECO crap on the E550 (I NEED to get rid of them)
4) I LOVE the rear end on this car, I will be investigating a way to do that to my vehicle.
What i did not like:
1) the engine, it is VERY loud in the cabin, the car is quiet when cruising but any throttle will put a very whiny sound into the cabin. You can tell they did a ton of tuning on the mufflers, but failed to keep the engine noise from the front out of the cabin. The V8 TT in my 550 barely makes a peep. This is partially because to get the power requested inevitably takes more revs, and maybe that has to do with my power wants, and also how i am accustom to my current E.
2) the PANO roof is pretty, but it does not fully "black out" as in there is a perforated self closing shade instead of a solid shade. I could see in very sunny places this could get a bit annoying. Also, I sometimes prefer a "sealed" in feeling that this roof does not provide.
3) I did not mind the Eco start/stop, but i did not like the transmission doing EVERYTHING in its power to remain in a high gear, meaning that passing/speeding-up/anything involving the accelerator normally involved a 3 gear down shift, and again this may be due to the (In my humble opinion) lack of power compared to the E550.
4) I still do not like the front end, I prefer mine. (but I am Biased)
All in all, it was a clear attempt by my dealership to sell me a new car, but at a 70K+ sticker price made me really feel that I do not have a non-AMG E-Class upgrade path. I guess the wife will have to let me get one then
Lastly, a bit of a RANT:
So MB launches the E45 AMG with LESS HP than the outgoing E550, meaning that if you are in my boat and would like to upgrade, and lets say if you do not want to go all out on a 120k E63 AMG, you have to step down to a car with less HP than the vehicle you are most likely leaving. I am a bit upset about this, but working for an automaker I get it, I just thought that the low production numbers of the "big" engine cars would keep them alive. It sucks to think that the ages of big motor cars are slowly vanishing. I do not want to get bashed for not understanding why, EPA + CAFE are doing the right thing, but it just is a bit detrimental to the enthusiast. Also, I noticed about the same MPG in the E400 as I get in my driving with the E550, but I imagine that Highway mileage would be better and it probably rocks the EPA tests. just my 2c.
Anyone find themselves in this boat?
Last edited by LukkyStrike; 03-16-2016 at 04:05 AM.
The new E43 does indeed have less power than the last E550, and it has an AMG badge on it! If you hate the revvy noise and gearing of the E400 V6, then you will definitely hate the more powerful V6 coming in the E43, and the fact that it now has 9 gears.
If you want a V8 without the AMG price, then you'll have to look at the CLS550, or buying a coupe, or stepping up to an S class, all of which still offer the 550. MB thoughts are probably the buyers have all of these options available, so why offer it in the E class which sells poorly with that engine. E buyers mostly want a more economical and comfortable ride, not power and sportiness. You can see that used E350 and E550 have nearly the same price tag. Honestly, I NEVER see newer CLS's and their basically the same exact chassis with a different roof line that appeals to the "sporty" people. If it weren't for needing to get a baby in and out of the back, I would have bought one.
Another comment about your original brake concern. I think that's just how this car acts due to electronic braking. I've noticed this since I bought my E550, and my wife complains about it. Its like the brakes take half a second to dis-engage after you take your foot off, and results in a not-so-smooth take off.
I just "came back" to MB after about 20 years driving Lexus autos. My last Lexus was an LS430 - a car that I sincerely loved and enjoyed. It was time for a new car, but I did not want another "very large" car, nor did I want to pay upwards of $90K for a car like an LS460 or even more for an S Class.
I looked at the mid-sized competitors - the GS350, E350, E400, BMW 5-series, Audi, etc. Since we were already buying a GLK for my wife, MB was first on my trial list. I would have opted for an E550, but there were no remaining new ones around. (I didn't want CPO or used.) The E350 is nice, but no faster than my old LS. I drove the E400 and found it to be a great step up from the E350.
I'm not trying to convince anyone that an E400 is an equal to the E550, only that coming from the E350 it is the only non-AMG upgrade available.
Is it noisy? A bit. As you noted, not while cruising, just while under power. In my everyday driving (suburban and interstate), I don't find it objectionable - just different. (Of course, I was coming out of what was said to be one of the quietest cars of its day.) The sport suspension is stiffer than my LS was, but that goes with the "sporty" demeanor of the car. If I felt I needed a full-on luxury car, I would have had to choose something else. I guess that in the mid-size luxury sedans, few cars are real competitors for the larger cars, so I am not disappointed.
As for performance and power, the E400 takes some getting used to. It is not a V8, so it has to perform differently. The torque curve is tall and flat - like the E550, the torque is almost always there. It really depends upon your comparison points. Compared to an E550, the E400 is definitely the "edgy little brother." When compared to my old LS, the E400 is the younger sports star. The E400 is slightly slower than the E550 from 0-60 mph and in the 1/4 mile, but it is faster than my LS was.
So, it depends upon what you want from a car. It is unfortunate that the only V8 E-Class is now the AMG, but that is what MB has chosen to do. It appears that the automakers are (almost?) all heading that way. They are widening the price gap between their 4 and 6-cylinder cars and their V8 offerings. I'm sure that their bean-counters are looking at this from the perspective that the V8 non-AMG MB's were a very low-volume subset of the brand. If they alienate those owners, they aren't risking much compared with the additional buyers they think they can attract with a high-output 6-cylinder "upgrade" to the standard models.
It stinks. I would love to have been able to get a new E550, but I do enjoy the E400. Once you get used to how to use the power and torque, it is a real sleeper in traffic.
Some celebrity once described the E63 as ". . . an axe murderer with headlights." If that is so, then my E400 must be "a serial killer in a grey suit."
Another comment about your original brake concern. I think that's just how this car acts due to electronic braking. I've noticed this since I bought my E550, and my wife complains about it. Its like the brakes take half a second to dis-engage after you take your foot off, and results in a not-so-smooth take off.
Does your brake lurching problem get better once the engine is warm up? Maybe due to the lower idle rpm.
Would be interested to hear if the "lurch" is an actual problem. I didn't have that in my 350, but the 550 does. I noticed it, but it doesn't really bother me. The brakes are always there when I need them and there isn't any shudder during normal braking, and that's what matters to me. FWIW, I notice a similar lurch (albeit not as "lurchy") with my dad's Ford Edge AWD as well. I think it might've also lurched a bit in one of the loaner C250s I had in the past, so it may just be a characteristic of the brakes (like what Jon says).
Great write up OP. You gave great insight for the next person who maybe looking into getting a new E400. I've yet to drive one but I have driven the 2016 E350. The next time I get service I'll see if I can squirm my way into a E400
Does your brake lurching problem get better once the engine is warm up? Maybe due to the lower idle rpm.
I thought about the brakes being the issue, but why can it be intermittent? Worse when cold, better when warm (but not gone)? And if I just move the pedal in the up direction ( not letting the car move) I feel it then have a smooth take off? I might just be crazy, but nothing wrong with having them look t the car.
Thanks for the feed back on the 400, I agree the bean counters were involved, but I really think that this has more to do with EPA than that. I think we will see more of this, even with the CLS and the mighty S class.
I wonder if the ECU reset would help with the shifting.
Keyless go is a great option, has been around a long while but it's probably the dealers ordering cars for the lots that they think will sell and the extra cost of keyless go makes it a tougher sell so most cars in the past didn't have it.
I do miss the headlamp washers, they seem to have gotten rid of them when they went to LED.
The pano shade has been like that for a while. Same thing in my 08. I usually leave the shade open and hardly ever close it. There's only a couple weeks here where it's super hot so I like the open feel you get with the pano and the shade open.
I wonder if the ECU reset would help with the shifting.
Keyless go is a great option, has been around a long while but it's probably the dealers ordering cars for the lots that they think will sell and the extra cost of keyless go makes it a tougher sell so most cars in the past didn't have it.
I think I will try the reset this week, I have been meaning to try it.
I agree with the keyless go price of entry, but at these prices I think it should be standard, as I mentioned to not have it in our Jeep we would have had to buy the base model, the rest had them as a standard package.
I thought about the brakes being the issue, but why can it be intermittent? Worse when cold, better when warm (but not gone)? And if I just move the pedal in the up direction ( not letting the car move) I feel it then have a smooth take off? I might just be crazy, but nothing wrong with having them look t the car.
Thanks for the feed back on the 400, I agree the bean counters were involved, but I really think that this has more to do with EPA than that. I think we will see more of this, even with the CLS and the mighty S class.
My CLS550 does the same thing, when the engine is cold, there is a lurch when I take off, the problem diminish when the engine is warm. If I ease off on the brake after a I stop, the take off is smoother. I thought it was my front brake caliper locking up at first, now I am not so sure.
My CLS550 does the same thing, when the engine is cold, there is a lurch when I take off, the problem diminish when the engine is warm. If I ease off on the brake after a I stop, the take off is smoother. I thought it was my front brake caliper locking up at first, now I am not so sure.
Well it is something that it seems that a few of us are experiencing at least. I thought the same thing at first, but I feel the drive line/car move in the lurch, makes me think it is not brake related.
I just "came back" to MB after about 20 years driving Lexus autos. My last Lexus was an LS430 - a car that I sincerely loved and enjoyed. It was time for a new car, but I did not want another "very large" car, nor did I want to pay upwards of $90K for a car like an LS460 or even more for an S Class.
I looked at the mid-sized competitors - the GS350, E350, E400, BMW 5-series, Audi, etc. Since we were already buying a GLK for my wife, MB was first on my trial list. I would have opted for an E550, but there were no remaining new ones around. (I didn't want CPO or used.) The E350 is nice, but no faster than my old LS. I drove the E400 and found it to be a great step up from the E350.
I'm not trying to convince anyone that an E400 is an equal to the E550, only that coming from the E350 it is the only non-AMG upgrade available.
Is it noisy? A bit. As you noted, not while cruising, just while under power. In my everyday driving (suburban and interstate), I don't find it objectionable - just different. (Of course, I was coming out of what was said to be one of the quietest cars of its day.) The sport suspension is stiffer than my LS was, but that goes with the "sporty" demeanor of the car. If I felt I needed a full-on luxury car, I would have had to choose something else. I guess that in the mid-size luxury sedans, few cars are real competitors for the larger cars, so I am not disappointed.
As for performance and power, the E400 takes some getting used to. It is not a V8, so it has to perform differently. The torque curve is tall and flat - like the E550, the torque is almost always there. It really depends upon your comparison points. Compared to an E550, the E400 is definitely the "edgy little brother." When compared to my old LS, the E400 is the younger sports star. The E400 is slightly slower than the E550 from 0-60 mph and in the 1/4 mile, but it is faster than my LS was.
So, it depends upon what you want from a car. It is unfortunate that the only V8 E-Class is now the AMG, but that is what MB has chosen to do. It appears that the automakers are (almost?) all heading that way. They are widening the price gap between their 4 and 6-cylinder cars and their V8 offerings. I'm sure that their bean-counters are looking at this from the perspective that the V8 non-AMG MB's were a very low-volume subset of the brand. If they alienate those owners, they aren't risking much compared with the additional buyers they think they can attract with a high-output 6-cylinder "upgrade" to the standard models.
It stinks. I would love to have been able to get a new E550, but I do enjoy the E400. Once you get used to how to use the power and torque, it is a real sleeper in traffic.
Some celebrity once described the E63 as ". . . an axe murderer with headlights." If that is so, then my E400 must be "a serial killer in a grey suit."
Excellent write-up on the comparison between a Lexus and a MB. Spot on. As to the comparison between a E400 and a E550, you also nailed it. Great car for most people, who are not interested in the extra power or not what we would call car enthusiasts. Definitely a step up from the non-F Lexus line-up. Having driven Lexus for 18 years, I've seen how they've walked away from V8's in everything but their LS model and F series high-performance models. It all depends on what OP values in his personal ride and what he considers acceptable trade-offs on any new car going forward.
If OP needs a 4 door sedan, it is pretty clear that MB, as well as most of the other luxury brands are either moving or have already moved to 4 or 6 cylinder engines in everything but their high-end or high-performance models. So you can't fight the trend that the industry has been forced to embrace. OP can indeed still get a CLS550 coupe, if he wants a V8 and it has 4 doors. Very nice vehicle too! I see quite a few of them around here. I've only seen maybe three CLS400 in the last year for whatever reason.
My CLS550 does the same thing, when the engine is cold, there is a lurch when I take off...
Exact same here w/ my 2012 E550. Happens after sitting overnight when cold (winter) and then goes away. Of course, the stealer couldn't duplicate it though it happens on every one of my first 2-3 full stops in the morning... the lurch is like what I'd expect from a small love tap from a car behind hitting me.
I've been trying to get around the lurch. Using HOLD doesn't help, but shifting from D to P and back again to D seems to be the ticket. It's a PITA, but I think it's working.
Kudos AGAIN to Koningstiger for the WIN! Always informative. Always helpful.
Last edited by Johnny Rad; 03-16-2016 at 09:30 PM.
When the salesman said the headlight washers are a first class ticket to "spoiling" a clean car, I have to admit that I've never used them once. What exactly am I missing out on?
If you want a V8 without the AMG price, then you'll have to look at the CLS550...
Great point. I totally overlooked it. Makes me feel a wee bit silly for rueing the day the E550 went the way of the dodo. While I prefer the E to the CLS, it's still a reasonably priced M278 option.
When the salesman said the headlight washers are a first class ticket to "spoiling" a clean car, I have to admit that I've never used them once. What exactly am I missing out on?
Thanks!
Umm, well they're just kinda cool. Plus when you use them, it's usually during a snow storm so the car isn't going to be clean. It sprays off the headlamps so you get more light in a storm instead of being covered in snow. I believe they require them in Europe because Xenon lights tend to scatter when covered with dirt. Now that they got rid of Xenons, they also got rid of the washers.
as a certified MB boss, I am sure you are very busy, but I have the following 2 questions:
How could I look up any of the information to ensure that my vehicle applies to the following item?
2nd, how exactly do you convince dealers of this? I explicitly told the dealer when I took the ride up there this past time and they laughed at it, none the less, any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks konigstiger, I will ask my dealer to check for the software update and see if that fix the lurching problem.
"LI27.19-P-056898 AUG13 – All models with NAG2 (7-speed transmission) in combination with OM651 or OM642 (diesel); 218 & 212 with 278 + 4matic delayed start-off from standstill / lurch when coming out of power-free state / jolt when brakes are released, update software."
What's the latest available firmware version for the transmission? I'm sure you can compare that with the firmware list in the "Engineer" hidden menu to check for yourself, without having to take it to the dealer. Unless you need a refill on your coffee and want to go to the dealer anyway.
as a certified MB boss, I am sure you are very busy, but I have the following 2 questions:
How could I look up any of the information to ensure that my vehicle applies to the following item?
2nd, how exactly do you convince dealers of this? I explicitly told the dealer when I took the ride up there this past time and they laughed at it, none the less, any tips would be appreciated.
Certified MB boss present the attahed bulletin to your SA to pass along to shop foreman.
Last edited by konigstiger; 03-17-2016 at 12:11 PM.
03-16-2016, 04:02 AM
present the attahed bulletin to your SA to pass along to shop foreman.
