ECU Tune
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Have you put your car on the dyno? Do you know what the crank HP is? SInce this discrepancy of crank v wheel HP has been discussed with the eurocharged tune, there has been no further information forthcoming. Are you at 640HP at the crank as claimed?
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From: Orlando, FL
2015 GL550 4matic
Eurocharged is having a dyno day soon, so maybe at least we will get a baseline from my M278 4matic car. I haven't seen good numbers posted anywhere, but seen posts of over 400HP stock on the dyno (to the wheels!) for a M278 coupe 2wd.
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Joined: Jul 2017
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2012 E550 Cabriolet 2011 VW Eos 1985 Pininfarina Spider
If you value your MB CPO warranty, my suggestion is not to touch any tuning.
Unless you have a very powerful friend in MB dealer who will help you when things happen.
And usually, on tuners website will state whp (Wheel HP) or HP (Crank HP).
Here I listed tuners numbers comparison. (All @ crank HP)
Renntech - 540 HP / 705 TQ (@crank)
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/inde...l-e-550-detail
EuroCharge - 530 HP / 606 TQ (@crank)
http://www.eurocharged.com/products/...-software-2014
Weistec - 540 HP / 615 TQ (@crank)
http://weistec.com/all/e/e-550/2012-...u-upgrade.html
Alpha Performance - 575HP / 660 TQ (@crank)
https://www.amsperformance.com/cart/...-v8-tune.html/
Unless you have a very powerful friend in MB dealer who will help you when things happen.
And usually, on tuners website will state whp (Wheel HP) or HP (Crank HP).
Here I listed tuners numbers comparison. (All @ crank HP)
Renntech - 540 HP / 705 TQ (@crank)
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/inde...l-e-550-detail
EuroCharge - 530 HP / 606 TQ (@crank)
http://www.eurocharged.com/products/...-software-2014
Weistec - 540 HP / 615 TQ (@crank)
http://weistec.com/all/e/e-550/2012-...u-upgrade.html
Alpha Performance - 575HP / 660 TQ (@crank)
https://www.amsperformance.com/cart/...-v8-tune.html/
Admittedly, I am a newbie with tuning the ECU, but how is one supposed to make an informed decision with all the seemingly conflicting information?
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Joined: May 2014
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From: Vancouver B.C. Canada
2014 E550 4MATIC TUNED - Turbo Upgraded Stage 3
So I heard back from Weistec. They claim their 540HP/615TQ is at the wheels. Which is the same claim Eurocharged is making on their 530HP/606TQ. Neither Alpha Performance or Renntech replied to my questions. On the Renntech website the chart has the following data. Stock: 374HP/381TQ and tuned 464HP/606TQ, but then in another area it states tuned - 540HP / 705LB-FT +105HP / +262LB-FT. I guess if we consider the first numbers at the wheel and the latter are at the crank, this would make sense. Renntech is the only tuner from above that has an actual dyno chart posted on their website.
Admittedly, I am a newbie with tuning the ECU, but how is one supposed to make an informed decision with all the seemingly conflicting information?
Admittedly, I am a newbie with tuning the ECU, but how is one supposed to make an informed decision with all the seemingly conflicting information?
Here is my friend's Renntech dyno at wheel (Please, click the lin below)
476WHP/539WTQ (Dynojet number)
http://www.dragtimes.com/2012-Merced...phs-28007.html
Here is my dyno BEFORE turbo upgrade at wheel (Tuned by ETG tuning)
417WHP/462WTQ Mustang Dyno Number (add 10% to convert to Dynojet number 458WHP/508WTQ)
Here is my dyno at wheel AFTER turbo upgrades (Not fine tuned yet)
542WHP / 628WTQ Mustang Dyno number (Add 10% to convert to dynojet number 596WHP / 690WTQ)
Here is another M278 engine AFTER Turbo Upgrade Dyno Tuned by Renntech
588WHP/686WHP
Last edited by cocobeex; Oct 22, 2017 at 05:29 AM.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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From: Stuart, FL
Mercedes-AMG
So I heard back from Weistec. They claim their 540HP/615TQ is at the wheels. Which is the same claim Eurocharged is making on their 530HP/606TQ. Neither Alpha Performance or Renntech replied to my questions. On the Renntech website the chart has the following data. Stock: 374HP/381TQ and tuned 464HP/606TQ, but then in another area it states tuned - 540HP / 705LB-FT +105HP / +262LB-FT. I guess if we consider the first numbers at the wheel and the latter are at the crank, this would make sense. Renntech is the only tuner from above that has an actual dyno chart posted on their website.
Admittedly, I am a newbie with tuning the ECU, but how is one supposed to make an informed decision with all the seemingly conflicting information?
Admittedly, I am a newbie with tuning the ECU, but how is one supposed to make an informed decision with all the seemingly conflicting information?
Hey,
we're sad to hear that you didn't get a response. Who and when did you get in contact with? What was your exact question?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 517
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2012 E550 Cabriolet 2011 VW Eos 1985 Pininfarina Spider
I used the email address on the website. I was looking for confirmation on the HP and TQ numbers on the website and if this data was measured at the crank or wheel.
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Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 424
Likes: 30
From: Stuart, FL
Mercedes-AMG
In regards to the ECU numbers. We ran into the problem with the crank and wheel horse power numbers in the past and decided to publish both.
The reason why is, Mercedes only ever publishes crank numbers. So people go on their website, check the power numbers and compare it with what comes out of the dyno after they tuned it. This does obviously not match.
So we try to give both numbers, to help this issue and make it as easy as possible to compare those numbers.
On your car, the 2012 E550 BiTurbo
Mercedes published: 402 HP and 443 LB-FT @crank
As we know, Mercedes is always conservative with their power numbers and the cars make more power than they published. That's why we base our gains on what we measured the car stock, in order to not make the gains replicate-able.
Measured by us the car makes: 374 hp and 381 lb-ft @wheels
Which is 435 HP and 443 LB-FT @crank (based on a 14% Drivetrain loss. We know that's another (heated) separate discussion who uses how much as losses. We try to stay consistent within our numbers and it doesn't influence the gains at the wheels, which is most important)
With our ECU tune the car makes: 464 hp and 606 lb-ft @wheels
Which equals 540 HP and 705 LB-FT @crank
Gains: +90 hp and +225 lb-ft @wheels
which equals +105 HP and +262 LB-FT @crank
Here the dynograph:
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/imag...U_Only_web.jpg
I hope this helps out. Please let us know if you have any further questions.
Super Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 818
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From: Vancouver B.C. Canada
2014 E550 4MATIC TUNED - Turbo Upgraded Stage 3
That must have been the info@renntechmercedes.com. If you let us know your e-mail address we will follow up and check what happened there.
In regards to the ECU numbers. We ran into the problem with the crank and wheel horse power numbers in the past and decided to publish both.
The reason why is, Mercedes only ever publishes crank numbers. So people go on their website, check the power numbers and compare it with what comes out of the dyno after they tuned it. This does obviously not match.
So we try to give both numbers, to help this issue and make it as easy as possible to compare those numbers.
On your car, the 2012 E550 BiTurbo
Mercedes published: 402 HP and 443 LB-FT @crank
As we know, Mercedes is always conservative with their power numbers and the cars make more power than they published. That's why we base our gains on what we measured the car stock, in order to not make the gains replicate-able.
Measured by us the car makes: 374 hp and 381 lb-ft @wheels
Which is 435 HP and 443 LB-FT @crank (based on a 14% Drivetrain loss. We know that's another (heated) separate discussion who uses how much as losses. We try to stay consistent within our numbers and it doesn't influence the gains at the wheels, which is most important)
With our ECU tune the car makes: 464 hp and 606 lb-ft @wheels
Which equals 540 HP and 705 LB-FT @crank
Gains: +90 hp and +225 lb-ft @wheels
which equals +105 HP and +262 LB-FT @crank
Here the dynograph:
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/imag...U_Only_web.jpg
I hope this helps out. Please let us know if you have any further questions.
In regards to the ECU numbers. We ran into the problem with the crank and wheel horse power numbers in the past and decided to publish both.
The reason why is, Mercedes only ever publishes crank numbers. So people go on their website, check the power numbers and compare it with what comes out of the dyno after they tuned it. This does obviously not match.
So we try to give both numbers, to help this issue and make it as easy as possible to compare those numbers.
On your car, the 2012 E550 BiTurbo
Mercedes published: 402 HP and 443 LB-FT @crank
As we know, Mercedes is always conservative with their power numbers and the cars make more power than they published. That's why we base our gains on what we measured the car stock, in order to not make the gains replicate-able.
Measured by us the car makes: 374 hp and 381 lb-ft @wheels
Which is 435 HP and 443 LB-FT @crank (based on a 14% Drivetrain loss. We know that's another (heated) separate discussion who uses how much as losses. We try to stay consistent within our numbers and it doesn't influence the gains at the wheels, which is most important)
With our ECU tune the car makes: 464 hp and 606 lb-ft @wheels
Which equals 540 HP and 705 LB-FT @crank
Gains: +90 hp and +225 lb-ft @wheels
which equals +105 HP and +262 LB-FT @crank
Here the dynograph:
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/imag...U_Only_web.jpg
I hope this helps out. Please let us know if you have any further questions.
Thanks for the clarification!!
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na
If you are ever having trouble with figuring this out, you can give us a call and we will walk ya through it! +1-888-875-2958
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 517
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2012 E550 Cabriolet 2011 VW Eos 1985 Pininfarina Spider
I think I have decided to go with Eurocharged. They have been extremely helpful answering all my questions. Eurocharged has repeatedly reached out to me to answer any question I have, whether though this forum or email. I wish I could afford before and after dyno runs, but am still excited about taking this step.
Super Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 818
Likes: 79
From: Vancouver B.C. Canada
2014 E550 4MATIC TUNED - Turbo Upgraded Stage 3
I think I have decided to go with Eurocharged. They have been extremely helpful answering all my questions. Eurocharged has repeatedly reached out to me to answer any question I have, whether though this forum or email. I wish I could afford before and after dyno runs, but am still excited about taking this step.
Glad you made your decision!!! Another Beast is waking up.
Super Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 600
Likes: 45
From: Minneapolis, MN/Breckenridge, CO
2010 E550 4Matic Sport P2
I think I have decided to go with Eurocharged. They have been extremely helpful answering all my questions. Eurocharged has repeatedly reached out to me to answer any question I have, whether though this forum or email. I wish I could afford before and after dyno runs, but am still excited about taking this step.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Hey Guys,
Because of the questions with whp vs hp the team has spent the last few weeks going over our site to make sure we were better aligned with how others are representing data (not to mention doing a ton of other changes you will see soon). We would always get calls saying we don't make as much power as we were listing whp not hp etc. Sorry for the confusion, looks like the web team is finally getting things squared.
I will see if I can get some dynos for you to make it even easier.
Because of the questions with whp vs hp the team has spent the last few weeks going over our site to make sure we were better aligned with how others are representing data (not to mention doing a ton of other changes you will see soon). We would always get calls saying we don't make as much power as we were listing whp not hp etc. Sorry for the confusion, looks like the web team is finally getting things squared.
I will see if I can get some dynos for you to make it even easier.
and Eurocharged site still states...
Description
Eurocharged performance engine software (ECU Upgrade) for the Mercedes E550 4.7L V8 Bi-Turbo 2010-2013 (M278 Engine)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
Brilliantly Engineered Software…
The ECU software development team at Eurocharged Performance has revolutionized the tuning industry with the most brilliantly engineered software available. Our team of engineers strive for the highest quality software possible, ensuring you the most desirable driving experience imaginable. Now that’s Brilliantly Engineered Software!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
Performance Numbers:
The manufacturers rating for this engine is 402HP and 443LB-FT of torque.
The Eurocharged rating for the ECU upgrade is 530HP and 606LB-FT of torque.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
Brilliantly Engineered Software…
The ECU software development team at Eurocharged Performance has revolutionized the tuning industry with the most brilliantly engineered software available. Our team of engineers strive for the highest quality software possible, ensuring you the most desirable driving experience imaginable. Now that’s Brilliantly Engineered Software!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
Performance Numbers:
The manufacturers rating for this engine is 402HP and 443LB-FT of torque.
The Eurocharged rating for the ECU upgrade is 530HP and 606LB-FT of torque.
Super Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 818
Likes: 79
From: Vancouver B.C. Canada
2014 E550 4MATIC TUNED - Turbo Upgraded Stage 3
Any further updates? I will be tuning in a month or two.
and Eurocharged site still states...
and Eurocharged site still states...
Description
Eurocharged performance engine software (ECU Upgrade) for the Mercedes E550 4.7L V8 Bi-Turbo 2010-2013 (M278 Engine)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
Performance Numbers:
The manufacturers rating for this engine is 402HP and 443LB-FT of torque.
The Eurocharged rating for the ECU upgrade is 530HP and 606LB-FT of torque.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
Performance Numbers:
The manufacturers rating for this engine is 402HP and 443LB-FT of torque.
The Eurocharged rating for the ECU upgrade is 530HP and 606LB-FT of torque.
Performance Numbers:
The manufacturers rating for this engine is 402HP and 443LB-FT of torque. <--- MB claimed its ON CRANK
The Eurocharged rating for the ECU upgrade is 530HP and 606LB-FT of torque. <--- Compare apple to apple, this has to be ON CRANK
Thats your answer.
And there is no way, for just a tune to get ON WHEEL 530hp / 606TQ on M278 platform
Race gas ? maybe.
Last edited by cocobeex; Jan 3, 2018 at 11:36 PM.
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@Cocobeex,
i was hoping eurocharged would have come back and clearly stated/confirmed what you have stated (many times 😀
. Strange that the last post from them was to state they would clarify on their website site after checking but they never did nor did they come back to this post.
I am highly interested in a eurocharged tune but would like a formal confirmation from them.
On another note I remember seeing a post stating the Torque rating for the w212 e550 was lower than the torque output of the renntech and the weistec tunes - I assume this means these tunes Have the potential to damage our drivetrains (unless we upgrade) and that the eurochargrd tune was safer? Anyone remember where that post is?
AA
i was hoping eurocharged would have come back and clearly stated/confirmed what you have stated (many times 😀
. Strange that the last post from them was to state they would clarify on their website site after checking but they never did nor did they come back to this post. I am highly interested in a eurocharged tune but would like a formal confirmation from them.
On another note I remember seeing a post stating the Torque rating for the w212 e550 was lower than the torque output of the renntech and the weistec tunes - I assume this means these tunes Have the potential to damage our drivetrains (unless we upgrade) and that the eurochargrd tune was safer? Anyone remember where that post is?
AA
Super Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 818
Likes: 79
From: Vancouver B.C. Canada
2014 E550 4MATIC TUNED - Turbo Upgraded Stage 3
@Cocobeex,
i was hoping eurocharged would have come back and clearly stated/confirmed what you have stated (many times 😀. Strange that the last post from them was to state they would clarify on their website site after checking but they never did nor did they come back to this post.
I am highly interested in a eurocharged tune but would like a formal confirmation from them.
On another note I remember seeing a post stating the Torque rating for the w212 e550 was lower than the torque output of the renntech and the weistec tunes - I assume this means these tunes Have the potential to damage our drivetrains (unless we upgrade) and that the eurochargrd tune was safer? Anyone remember where that post is?
AA
i was hoping eurocharged would have come back and clearly stated/confirmed what you have stated (many times 😀
. Strange that the last post from them was to state they would clarify on their website site after checking but they never did nor did they come back to this post.I am highly interested in a eurocharged tune but would like a formal confirmation from them.
On another note I remember seeing a post stating the Torque rating for the w212 e550 was lower than the torque output of the renntech and the weistec tunes - I assume this means these tunes Have the potential to damage our drivetrains (unless we upgrade) and that the eurochargrd tune was safer? Anyone remember where that post is?
AA
But they need to do a better job on clarification of numbers. and be more transparent.
772.9 G-Tronic max out torque should be some where around 850lb.ft tq. on crank (700 on wheel)
I am on stock tranny, and my torque is 628 lb.ft on wheel (757 lb.ft. on crank) after turbo upgrade and tune.
so far so good. no issue.
Banned
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 196
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EC tune is a good tune, i have seen many people are happy with their tune.
But they need to do a better job on clarification of numbers. and be more transparent.
772.9 G-Tronic max out torque should be some where around 850lb.ft tq. on crank (700 on wheel)
I am on stock tranny, and my torque is 628 lb.ft on wheel (757 lb.ft. on crank) after turbo upgrade and tune.
so far so good. no issue.
But they need to do a better job on clarification of numbers. and be more transparent.
772.9 G-Tronic max out torque should be some where around 850lb.ft tq. on crank (700 on wheel)
I am on stock tranny, and my torque is 628 lb.ft on wheel (757 lb.ft. on crank) after turbo upgrade and tune.
so far so good. no issue.
Thank you for the tranny update. I will be pulling the plug in the next 2-3 months (after the freaking snow storms) so I am
Getting as much info as possible now.
Thanks
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 517
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2012 E550 Cabriolet 2011 VW Eos 1985 Pininfarina Spider
One of the nice things about EC is the reflash for $35. That and an EC shop is close to me so I can just take my car to them, rather than send them the ECU.
Here is the specs I have.
OEM - 402 HP (Probably closer to 440HP) / 443 TQ (@crank)
Renntech - 540 HP / 705 TQ (@crank)
EuroCharged - 530 HP / 606 TQ (@crank)
Weistec - 540 HP / 615 TQ (@crank)
Alpha Performance - 575HP / 660 TQ (@crank)
Here is the specs I have.
OEM - 402 HP (Probably closer to 440HP) / 443 TQ (@crank)
Renntech - 540 HP / 705 TQ (@crank)
EuroCharged - 530 HP / 606 TQ (@crank)
Weistec - 540 HP / 615 TQ (@crank)
Alpha Performance - 575HP / 660 TQ (@crank)
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 865
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From: Bay Area
14 550 sedan
Cocobeex with larger turbo, downpipe, and tune is getting ~757 crank torque. I don't know about you but claiming 715tq from stock 445tq from only a tune sounds unreliable and unrealistic. If you're simply asking for 'thoughts from EC' i think this would be a conversation that'll go nowhere.
I'm happy with the "supposedly" safer EC tune with lower numbers, but also because they sold me the tune for a steal. If you guys are willing to pay up more for the higher numbers, go for it and report back with your findings.
I'm happy with the "supposedly" safer EC tune with lower numbers, but also because they sold me the tune for a steal. If you guys are willing to pay up more for the higher numbers, go for it and report back with your findings.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 196
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Cocobeex with larger turbo, downpipe, and tune is getting ~757 crank torque. I don't know about you but claiming 715tq from stock 445tq from only a tune sounds unreliable and unrealistic. If you're simply asking for 'thoughts from EC' i think this would be a conversation that'll go nowhere.
I'm happy with the "supposedly" safer EC tune with lower numbers, but also because they sold me the tune for a steal. If you guys are willing to pay up more for the higher numbers, go for it and report back with your findings.
I'm happy with the "supposedly" safer EC tune with lower numbers, but also because they sold me the tune for a steal. If you guys are willing to pay up more for the higher numbers, go for it and report back with your findings.
I do agree that that’s a hell of a Torque increase from just a tune - but hey, they posted it.
