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Oh, one more question. I am not sure if I will need to lower the steering rack, but for those of you who did, did you need two jacks at the same time, i.e. one for the steering rack and one for the engine?
Can somebody lay out the order of removals? I am starting to understand better what is involved but given how difficult it sounds want to be rock solid on how to approach it. Thanks in advance...
Thanks. Those tools that you posted about on Amazon - did you use those to get out the 16 MM top bolts for the engine mounts?
Here's the update on my progress. Basically I aborted the job because the special Mercedes wrench for the motor mount top bolt would not fit between the exhaust manifold and the top bolt on the passenger side. It fit fine on the driver's side which is really weird. I also did not have enough flex joints to do the rear lower 13 MM bolts on the mounts. It looks like you need a flex joint that connects to the socket, and then one higher up so you can make two angles.
Oh, and I have a socket wrench that has a flex end on it similar to those Amazon tools. That made all the difference in the world in getting out the lower heat shield bolts.
I was able to get the heat shield bolts removed. I saw your other thread about coming at it from the back of the cat. I removed the O2 sensor on the passenger side and I was able to reach my hand up there and hold the socket in place no problem. The one on the driver's side was easier but I ended up breaking something plastic (starter plastic tubing for wires??) when I was putting it all back together. I think I have enough information to be able to do the job now without too much trouble, but I wanted to button everything back up so I could drive the car while I wait for tools to arrive and plan the attack again. This is definitely not a job for a beginner!
Figuring out how to properly use multiquote here
1. I did not use the flex head Tektons for removing the top bolt, only the offset wrench ( the specialty one). If you rotate it 180 degrees laterally it should have the 16mm bite better onto the passenger side bolt (it will kinda point downwards at a slight angle). Try different positions and you'll eventually get it right. As you unscrew the 16mm top bolt, lift the engine ever so slightly to prevent it from topping up against the exhaust manifold. Don't lift the engine more than a total of 2 inches, you might cause some tranny and O2 wire damage. 1,5 inches should be more than enough to reach all the stuff you need. Also, the 16mm comes completely out first, only after completely remove the 13s.
2. Both the rear placed 13s can be reached with a flex 13 mm (Tektons to the rescue - bidirectional ratcheting on them too), on the passenger side I needed to put a pipe over the 13 wrench for better leverage ( not necessary if you're a regular at the gym). My approach angle was from underneath the exhaust, with the engine lifted you should have enough room there to fit your hand through. I had my wife press on the top of the 13 bolt so that the flex head wrench wouldn't come off. If I remember correctly, the front 13s came off with extensions and a swivel adapter (easy stuff compared to the rest).
Keep in mind that for the most part of unbolting the mount, your engine is supported only by your jack. Using an engine hoist would be a safer way of doing this job. If you like having fingers.
Originally Posted by 300SE1993
Oh, one more question. I am not sure if I will need to lower the steering rack, but for those of you who did, did you need two jacks at the same time, i.e. one for the steering rack and one for the engine?
You don't really need a jack to support your steering rack, it won't do any harm if you do but it's not strictly necessary. Just make sure you don't oull down on it more than you need so that you can wiggle the mount out.
Originally Posted by MBNUT1
Can somebody lay out the order of removals? I am starting to understand better what is involved but given how difficult it sounds want to be rock solid on how to approach it. Thanks in advance...
1. Lift vehicle at a comfortable level, at least 1.5 ft off the ground ( I used jack stands on all 4 corners), wheels pointing forward, battery disconnected
2. Remove plastic belly covers, all 3 of them ( don't lose the 8mm zinc bolts, MB will charge an outrageous amount for them)
3. Remove accessories belt
4. Lift engine by 1 inch, make sure it won't move
5. Remove heat shield bolts ( 4 of them as seen in the pictures I posted). Methods described in previous posts. Remove heat shields
6. Using the methods described above, partially unscrew the rear facing 13mm bolts. Driver side should be easier.
7. Unscrew 16 mm top bolt, lift engine in increments of 1cm ( no more than 2 inches total lift) as the top bolt comes out.
8. For passenger mount : remove alternator bolts, lower alternator, wiggle mount out through the front after you have removed, in this order, the 16mm top bolt and the two 13mm bolts.
9. Insert new passenger side mount, might have to lift the engine closer to the 2inch max height, since the new mount is taller and will not want to go in easily.
10. Repeat 6 and 7 for driver's side.
11. Drop the steering rack ( described in posts above)
12. Remove driver's side mount, it should fit through the gap created between the AC compressor and the lowered steering rack.
13. Put new mount in, same struggles as with step 9.
14. On both new mounts, first install the 13mm bolts, just by starting them on their threads and then try to align the 16mm and get it started as well. I really struggled here, especially on the driver's side. At this point you can screw the 16 all the way in, it will lift the mount as far as the 13s allow it to go. You can start lowering the engine as this happens ( do this in a gentle manner, no more than a half an inch at a time).
15. Use the 13mm flex head to tighten the rear 13mm bolts, I did it by hand feel, there's no way of applying the correct amount of torque using this method. 2 grunts of torque should be enough ( per James May's instructions in his Reassembler series), use thread locker to be sure they won't pop out.
There might be a few other things I'm missing now, I did this repair last year and there are some repressed memories involving the experience. I definitely realized why Mercedes charges as much as they do for this. Good luck! If you need clarifications, post them here. Take pics, it might jolt my memory.
Figuring out how to properly use multiquote here
1. I did not use the flex head Tektons for removing the top bolt, only the offset wrench ( the specialty one). If you rotate it 180 degrees laterally it should have the 16mm bite better onto the passenger side bolt (it will kinda point downwards at a slight angle). Try different positions and you'll eventually get it right. As you unscrew the 16mm top bolt, lift the engine ever so slightly to prevent it from topping up against the exhaust manifold. Don't lift the engine more than a total of 2 inches, you might cause some tranny and O2 wire damage. 1,5 inches should be more than enough to reach all the stuff you need. Also, the 16mm comes completely out first, only after completely remove the 13s.
2. Both the rear placed 13s can be reached with a flex 13 mm (Tektons to the rescue - bidirectional ratcheting on them too), on the passenger side I needed to put a pipe over the 13 wrench for better leverage ( not necessary if you're a regular at the gym). My approach angle was from underneath the exhaust, with the engine lifted you should have enough room there to fit your hand through. I had my wife press on the top of the 13 bolt so that the flex head wrench wouldn't come off. If I remember correctly, the front 13s came off with extensions and a swivel adapter (easy stuff compared to the rest).
Keep in mind that for the most part of unbolting the mount, your engine is supported only by your jack. Using an engine hoist would be a safer way of doing this job. If you like having fingers.
You don't really need a jack to support your steering rack, it won't do any harm if you do but it's not strictly necessary. Just make sure you don't oull down on it more than you need so that you can wiggle the mount out.
1. Lift vehicle at a comfortable level, at least 1.5 ft off the ground ( I used jack stands on all 4 corners), wheels pointing forward, battery disconnected
2. Remove plastic belly covers, all 3 of them ( don't lose the 8mm zinc bolts, MB will charge an outrageous amount for them)
3. Remove accessories belt
4. Lift engine by 1 inch, make sure it won't move
5. Remove heat shield bolts ( 4 of them as seen in the pictures I posted). Methods described in previous posts. Remove heat shields
6. Using the methods described above, partially unscrew the rear facing 13mm bolts. Driver side should be easier.
7. Unscrew 16 mm top bolt, lift engine in increments of 1cm ( no more than 2 inches total lift) as the top bolt comes out.
8. For passenger mount : remove alternator bolts, lower alternator, wiggle mount out through the front after you have removed, in this order, the 16mm top bolt and the two 13mm bolts.
9. Insert new passenger side mount, might have to lift the engine closer to the 2inch max height, since the new mount is taller and will not want to go in easily.
10. Repeat 6 and 7 for driver's side.
11. Drop the steering rack ( described in posts above)
12. Remove driver's side mount, it should fit through the gap created between the AC compressor and the lowered steering rack.
13. Put new mount in, same struggles as with step 9.
14. On both new mounts, first install the 13mm bolts, just by starting them on their threads and then try to align the 16mm and get it started as well. I really struggled here, especially on the driver's side. At this point you can screw the 16 all the way in, it will lift the mount as far as the 13s allow it to go. You can start lowering the engine as this happens ( do this in a gentle manner, no more than a half an inch at a time).
15. Use the 13mm flex head to tighten the rear 13mm bolts, I did it by hand feel, there's no way of applying the correct amount of torque using this method. 2 grunts of torque should be enough ( per James May's instructions in his Reassembler series), use thread locker to be sure they won't pop out.
There might be a few other things I'm missing now, I did this repair last year and there are some repressed memories involving the experience. I definitely realized why Mercedes charges as much as they do for this. Good luck! If you need clarifications, post them here. Take pics, it might jolt my memory.
This is perfect. Thanks so much. Must confess it will be a while as I will be waiting for it to warm up. It needs to be done now as I am getting a pretty good vibration at idle. But at least now that I know what it takes I can use the time to get my courage up.
This has to be one of the best DIY threads I've seen. Saved and printed to my MB file - dealer just replaced trans mount under ELW at 54k miles, while they were at it they replaced the engine mounts too at no cost. Next time it's on me, this thread will help immensely.
This has to be one of the best DIY threads I've seen. Saved and printed to my MB file - dealer just replaced trans mount under ELW at 54k miles, while they were at it they replaced the engine mounts too at no cost. Next time it's on me, this thread will help immensely.
I hope you never have to do this job. While it is immensely rewarding, the knuckle bust factor is high as well ( I think the pros call it "high risk, high reward"). Kudos to your dealer, this is a very expensive job. They must really like you, just like we do here.
That's a very kind comment, I appreciate it knowing I'll mess up somewhere lol.
My dealer/service rep is outstanding, but I also treat them with respect. They have done a number of small extra "while we've got the car" jobs along the way. This was the last work under now expired ELW warranty, so I dropped off some gift certificates to the rep and to the specific tech that usually works on my car, it was a small gesture but wanted to express my thanks. They also replaced the pcv cannister assembly - it was just a very minor seepage, no drip, but they changed it all out.
Reading through the DIY steps and seeing the service invoice, it is quite the involved job as you say. I see mention of exhaust removal, replaced bolts, all sorts of things that correlate to your description of the work.
Again, thanks for posting the replacement info.
In the video, I show my attempts to get the wrench onto the top mount bolt passenger side, but it seems to just... not... quite... have enough room to clear the exhaust header. This is supposed to be the proper tool for the job. It fits just fine on the driver's side, which is really strange. I have tried every angle that I could think of, and even flipped the wrench upside down to try that way, but it still doesn't fit. I've tried it with the engine lifted a bit and not lifted. Does anybody have any tips?
The good news is that I am now an expert on removing and reinstalling the heat shield LOL
I just finished this job on my 2011 E550 4matic, and sympathize with your struggles! If it wasn't for help on this site, specifically from Oda112, I would have given up! Although it's not a technically complicated job, the very poor access and lack of space to work makes it challenging... Let me first compliment you on getting this far, for me the biggest struggle was to get to the rear heat shield bolt on the passenger side. I finally got this done by removing the O2 sensor so I could reach my hand up from below with a 6" extension and a 8mm socket, and then turning with another extension and swivel joint from below the car, all while keeping an eye on the little bolt from the other side of the catalytic converter. If you have found a better way to do this, it may benefit others that are looking to do this.
To answer your specific question of placing your tool on the bolt, I also had to struggle a bit to get it on there, but succeeded eventually. I tried to keep some "upward pressure" on the engine with a jack, but if you haven't been able to loosen the bolt yet, this should not make a big difference since the part that the bolt is connected to is mounted directly to the engine. If all else fails, you could try to grind off ~1mm from the special tool to see if this makes it slip between the bolt and the exhaust header?
Good luck with the process, it's a worthwhile struggle. Your car will be quieter and smoother as a result.
I just finished this job on my 2011 E550 4matic, and sympathize with your struggles! If it wasn't for help on this site, specifically from Oda112, I would have given up! Although it's not a technically complicated job, the very poor access and lack of space to work makes it challenging... Let me first compliment you on getting this far, for me the biggest struggle was to get to the rear heat shield bolt on the passenger side. I finally got this done by removing the O2 sensor so I could reach my hand up from below with a 6" extension and a 8mm socket, and then turning with another extension and swivel joint from below the car, all while keeping an eye on the little bolt from the other side of the catalytic converter. If you have found a better way to do this, it may benefit others that are looking to do this.
To answer your specific question of placing your tool on the bolt, I also had to struggle a bit to get it on there, but succeeded eventually. I tried to keep some "upward pressure" on the engine with a jack, but if you haven't been able to loosen the bolt yet, this should not make a big difference since the part that the bolt is connected to is mounted directly to the engine. If all else fails, you could try to grind off ~1mm from the special tool to see if this makes it slip between the bolt and the exhaust header?
Good luck with the process, it's a worthwhile struggle. Your car will be quieter and smoother as a result.
I thought about grinding part of that tool off, but don't really have a method of doing that, and others have said they've been able to do it with the tool as is, so I wanted to see if I was missing something obvious.
As for the rear bolt on the passenger heat shield, here are pictures of the access angle and the tool setup I used. I have skinny arms, so i was able to reach my right hand up over the extension bar on the top of the cat (after O2 sensor removal) and hold the socket in place while I loosened with the wrench using my left hand. The key was being able to fold the wrench itself because of its flexible end. I was not constrained to any one particular angle. Note on the extension itself, the flex part should not directly connect to the socket, rather connect to the short extender as in my picture. You have plenty of room to come straight at the bolt this way, and the extension makes it very easy to hold in place.
This is the angle you go at it, right above the cat. My arm was able to fit on top of all this to reach back and hold the socket on. This is the setup I used to make this job much easier on the passenger side.
So, grinding that tool on the concrete actually worked. I shaved a bit off the part that was bumping up against the manifold and Voila! it fit. The next fun part was trying to fit the extension into it without the wrench falling off, but I found that I could hold the wrench on with my left hand and gently but firmly use a prybar to move the wrench and loosen the top bolt. I am taking my time with this, taking lots of breaks so I don't drive myself crazy.
For the rear 13MM lower bolt, I was able to use a 13MM socket with a swivel and then the small extension, and then another swivel connected to a longer extension. It was almost too easy. It started turning and I thought I had stripped the bolt, but it was fine. Taking a food break now and will get back at it. I am documenting step by step tips and tricks as I go so I don't forget them.
In the video, I show my attempts to get the wrench onto the top mount bolt passenger side, but it seems to just... not... quite... have enough room to clear the exhaust header. This is supposed to be the proper tool for the job. It fits just fine on the driver's side, which is really strange. I have tried every angle that I could think of, and even flipped the wrench upside down to try that way, but it still doesn't fit. I've tried it with the engine lifted a bit and not lifted. Does anybody have any tips?
The good news is that I am now an expert on removing and reinstalling the heat shield LOL
If I ever took a video of that the sound would need bleeping.
It does seem like the wrench is a bit too tall or the exhaust header might have sagged on that side. Raising the engine won't help since the bracket and exhaust would go up together, the space would stay the same. A dremel should help with grinding, it's not going to be fun or fast. A machinist friend would be good too. At this point there's really nothing else (that's safe) to try. Pushing the exhaust header up might crack it or snap something in there so I wouldn't advise it. Where did you get your tool from? I measured mine too and it should be about 14mm tall/thick. Mine is a KTC model MBZ1051B.
Originally Posted by 300SE1993
I thought about grinding part of that tool off, but don't really have a method of doing that, and others have said they've been able to do it with the tool as is, so I wanted to see if I was missing something obvious.
As for the rear bolt on the passenger heat shield, here are pictures of the access angle and the tool setup I used. I have skinny arms, so i was able to reach my right hand up over the extension bar on the top of the cat (after O2 sensor removal) and hold the socket in place while I loosened with the wrench using my left hand. The key was being able to fold the wrench itself because of its flexible end. I was not constrained to any one particular angle. Note on the extension itself, the flex part should not directly connect to the socket, rather connect to the short extender as in my picture. You have plenty of room to come straight at the bolt this way, and the extension makes it very easy to hold in place.
This is the angle you go at it, right above the cat. My arm was able to fit on top of all this to reach back and hold the socket on. This is the setup I used to make this job much easier on the passenger side.
That's almost identical to my extension bars setup. That was a pain to get done.
Well, I have gotten the passenger side mount back in and ready for bolting down. It was a little tricky to wiggle it in there, but eventually it went. I am about to wrap up for the day (been taking it really easy and taking lots of breaks on this). I am running into hopefully my last challenge. Everybody, including those with the V8 engine, says that you do not need to unbolt the AC compressor. I have lowered the PS rack but am struggling to figure out which way to get the old mount out (and the new mount in). I've made a video of my dilemma.
Well, I have gotten the passenger side mount back in and ready for bolting down. It was a little tricky to wiggle it in there, but eventually it went. I am about to wrap up for the day (been taking it really easy and taking lots of breaks on this). I am running into hopefully my last challenge. Everybody, including those with the V8 engine, says that you do not need to unbolt the AC compressor. I have lowered the PS rack but am struggling to figure out which way to get the old mount out (and the new mount in). I've made a video of my dilemma.
@Oda112 I don't have a measuring tool like that or I would check. Grinding it down a bit did resolve the issue though.
You might have to lift the engine a bit higher and try to wiggle the mount out underneath the CV shaft. I think it was easier for me to remove mine because the engine block is longer and there's more room between the CV shaft and the back of the AC compressor, got mine out by moving it over the CV shaft. Worst case scenario is you'll have to remove the bolts for the AC compressor and move it out of the way just enough to squeeze the mount by.
You might have to lift the engine a bit higher and try to wiggle the mount out underneath the CV shaft. I think it was easier for me to remove mine because the engine block is longer and there's more room between the CV shaft and the back of the AC compressor, got mine out by moving it over the CV shaft. Worst case scenario is you'll have to remove the bolts for the AC compressor and move it out of the way just enough to squeeze the mount by.
I later found out that what I was using to lift the engine had dropped by at least a couple inches, so that may explain some of the lack of clearance. Question though: Did you remove/reinstall between the axle and AC compressor, or under the axle, between the axle and the steering gear? I think you mean that you removed it between the AC compressor and the axle, on top of the axle, but I want to make sure.
I later found out that what I was using to lift the engine had dropped by at least a couple inches, so that may explain some of the lack of clearance. Question though: Did you remove/reinstall between the axle and AC compressor, or under the axle, between the axle and the steering gear? I think you mean that you removed it between the AC compressor and the axle, on top of the axle, but I want to make sure.
I think it came out above the axle and then through the space created between the PS rack and AC compressor. You should see the space once you either lift the engine or move the AC compressor.
I have the utmost respect for you guys/gals doing this job DIY. Even if I had a driveway or garage to do it, this is still beyond what I would want to tackle and I did the front and rear shocks on an '03 Golf.
Just to highlight how much you are saving the 3 quotes (2 independents and 1 dealer) I received for all 3 mounts on an '11 E350 4Matic range from $2100-$2300. Indys are both right around $2100, dealer is the high at $2300. I'm going the dealer route as they will provide a loaner and will wash and vacuum the car too which makes up ~$100-150 of the cost difference, then there is the $150 off coupon so dealer will end up cheaper when you factor in the fringe benefits.
I have the utmost respect for you guys/gals doing this job DIY. Even if I had a driveway or garage to do it, this is still beyond what I would want to tackle and I did the front and rear shocks on an '03 Golf.
Just to highlight how much you are saving the 3 quotes (2 independents and 1 dealer) I received for all 3 mounts on an '11 E350 4Matic range from $2100-$2300. Indys are both right around $2100, dealer is the high at $2300. I'm going the dealer route as they will provide a loaner and will wash and vacuum the car too which makes up ~$100-150 of the cost difference, then there is the $150 off coupon so dealer will end up cheaper when you factor in the fringe benefits.
The transmission mount is easy though, it's the two main mounts that sound like they're the tough ones.
I have the utmost respect for you guys/gals doing this job DIY. Even if I had a driveway or garage to do it, this is still beyond what I would want to tackle and I did the front and rear shocks on an '03 Golf.
Just to highlight how much you are saving the 3 quotes (2 independents and 1 dealer) I received for all 3 mounts on an '11 E350 4Matic range from $2100-$2300. Indys are both right around $2100, dealer is the high at $2300. I'm going the dealer route as they will provide a loaner and will wash and vacuum the car too which makes up ~$100-150 of the cost difference, then there is the $150 off coupon so dealer will end up cheaper when you factor in the fringe benefits.
Ouch! Stealership here in MO was charging 1700 to 1900$ just for the 2 motor mounts in 2017, since I don't like throwing money away I decided to learn how to do it myself.
If you were living close by I'd help you with it. Payment would have to be made in the Heineken currency.
Well, here's an update. With the help from you folks, I was able to fit both mounts and get the bolts started, but I am completely stuck in a most unusual place. I did have to unbolt the AC compressor and move it out of the way which made it all very easy, but I cannot get that sucker back in. I just can't get the bolts started, and I stripped a couple in the process. I just got back from the dealer with new bolts and will try again, but WOW is that an unanticipated roadblock. So close, yet so far away!
It sounds like you are almost there. I didn't have to remove the AC compressor on mine, so I don't have any specific tips there. However, I've been in your shoes many times when it feels you're completely stuck. My best advice would be to take your mind off it for a bit, and try again when you're not tired and frustrated. Usually I find that helps to get you unstuck. Good luck!
It sounds like you are almost there. I didn't have to remove the AC compressor on mine, so I don't have any specific tips there. However, I've been in your shoes many times when it feels you're completely stuck. My best advice would be to take your mind off it for a bit, and try again when you're not tired and frustrated. Usually I find that helps to get you unstuck. Good luck!
Good advice. I am not going to touch it tomorrow. Today I was able to get everything else buttoned up except I am having an issue with the bolts on the passenger side mount. I think i just need to loosen them and wiggle them around. The top bolt for some reason is sticking up and I can't get a wrench in there or any finger leverage to turn it. Other than that I am done. It's weird though, i still feel like I have miles and miles to go.
11-14-2018, 04:38 PM
