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When l changed the springs, my mechanic reminded me he would change all worn out components if he should see anyone, yet the new springs fit my car perfectly without the need to change any other components, lucky me. So just let your mechanic decide what to be changed.
You may consider my choice of springs, afterall they are 485 for E200-E400. Your car is over 3800lb which is almost 360lb heavier than my E250 CGI, so for the same set of springs you should get softer ride than me.
Thanks a lot DIngo. I will let them mount the same springs.
Originally Posted by S-Prihadi
Hi 81,
Item 80 is a wear and tear and important item.
That is where the bearing is at for the strut ( actually shock absorber end ) movement while turning and the encapsulated rubber itself is kinda vibration absorber and strut holder.
It looks like solid aluminum, but inside it is rubber.
Item 60 is dirt protection for shock absorber seal , but also kinda cosmetic and don't wear out much in terms of mechanical wear & tear, but in term of exposure to ambient air and heat, that plastic may degrade.
In my younger days, I will ruin item 80 for sure...LOL.
Thank you for this valueable information. I will let them replace 60, 70 and 80. Didn't know 80 was so important, looked like just metal.
Some new questions.
Are torsion bars ( anti roll bars) considered part of a suspension system? Do they affect comfortness of ride? If yes, are Luxury and Avantgarde models having different torsion bar that affect riding quality?
Hi Dingo,
Yes they do effect ride comfort and handling, due to their design nature of allowing counter/resisting acting force.
Its a complex subjet though.
Its a trade off , agility usually requires stiffer in most cases. Comfort is in some way giving away agility.
Simple explanation : Say our simple definition of comfort is maximum allowable suspension travel for a given load or G-force. Some will call it boat-like but comfy.
Once it is boat-like feel, don't expect the car can be very agile or say can do moose test kind of manuver at speed without significant body roll.
I have never experiment with sport/race sway bar but knowing how its works, which is by creating resistance to weight transfer, that is indirectly like having a bit stiffer damper.
Hope someone who knows better can chime in.
So l really guess the Luxury and Avantgarde models are having different torsion bars.....
Anyone who can prove my hypothesis?
Get each car variant VIN numbers and hopefully using EPC one can tell part number difference/s.
Prefer to get VINs from same country cars, so same market or level of options.
Its confusing the way local Mercedes may name or call your car variant.
So here u go Dingo.
Rear sway bay is different, AvantGarde is thicker by 0.5mm
Front sway bar has two versions, could be generation changes over the model life of the car.
I guess if you wanna soft front, you track down the older part number, where front is thinner by 1.5mm sway bar.
Have fun................
Easier to read version. I dunno why this forum reduce the text resolution , it seems
A bit confused, if I'm not wrong from the information you provided above, the rear torsion bar diameter of Avantgarde is only 18mm while the Elegance is 18.5mm, Avantgarde is thinner!......
Perhaps this site updated the information, l found the Elegance (485) and Avantgarde (677) of E250 share same shocks but different springs.
And they share same front and rear sway bars....
Perhaps this site updated the information, l found the Elegance (485) and Avantgarde (677) of E250 share same shocks but different springs.
And they share same front and rear sway bars....
have you had a chance to install Bilstein B4 on your car?
Perhaps this site updated the information, l found the Elegance (485) and Avantgarde (677) of E250 share same shocks but different springs.
And they share same front and rear sway bars....
I own both cars, the Torsion/ Sway bars on my luxury are smaller, front is hard to notice but the back is visibly thinner. the ride is night and day also
I own both cars, the Torsion/ Sway bars on my luxury are smaller, front is hard to notice but the back is visibly thinner. the ride is night and day also
mine’s a face lifted luxury. Factory 17s, shod in Michelin Primacy MXM4, which are supposedly are top tier grand touring tires. Cold air pressure is 31F 33R.
While the ride is not jarring by any means and is not particularly harsh, I still find it choppy and busy on semi-disintegrated city roads. hitting potholes is unpleasant though and they go into the structure…
….Excellent on the highway though, where it is compliant, yet very well controlled (stable at high speeds on undulations in tight bends, and son on). I just can’t imagine what a Sport, with less suspension travel, stiffer dampers, thicket antiroll bars and 18 inch wheels with less tire and higher pressure rides like!?!
is it really night and day difference? Is the ride jarring on under-maintained city roads?
Last edited by 4rvrDarwin; 05-02-2023 at 12:17 PM.
mine’s a face lifted luxury. Factory 17s, shod in Michelin Primacy MXM4, which are supposedly are top tier grand touring tires. Cold air pressure is 31F 33R.
While the ride is not jarring by any means and is not particularly harsh, I still find it choppy and busy on semi-disintegrated city roads. hitting potholes is unpleasant though and they go into the structure…
….Excellent on the highway though, where it is compliant, yet very well controlled (stable at high speeds on undulations in tight bends, and son on). I just can’t imagine what a Sport, with less suspension travel, stiffer dampers, thicket antiroll bars and 18 inch wheels with less tire and higher pressure rides like!?!
is it really night and day difference? Is the ride jarring on under-maintained city roads?
Yes. the ride height is almost an inch in front and more than an inch in back, Does your gas door flap recommend those pressures you listed? mine both say 36 front 36 back, with luggage or passengers 42 back. Yes, it is a noticeably different ride, yes, it's way more jarring on city streets, it does seem more even at highway speeds, where the luxury is a little more loose the sport is tight, same thing on twisty roads at like 40-50 mph, the sport is way more precise, the luxury has much more body lean and sloppy in comparison, not bad, just different. if I didn't have the sport I would not know the difference, some days I drive both and it is absolutely noticeable immediately in the handling and ride.
worn out shocks give a bouncy ride, as the spring rebound is no longer controlled.
Not only that, but because your tires bounce around, you get strange wear patterns on your tires. Changed out shocks first then when suspension was sitting a little lower than normal, also switched out the springs.
Yes. the ride height is almost an inch in front and more than an inch in back, Does your gas door flap recommend those pressures you listed? mine both say 36 front 36 back, with luggage or passengers 42 back. Yes, it is a noticeably different ride, yes, it's way more jarring on city streets, it does seem more even at highway speeds, where the luxury is a little more loose the sport is tight, same thing on twisty roads at like 40-50 mph, the sport is way more precise, the luxury has much more body lean and sloppy in comparison, not bad, just different. if I didn't have the sport I would not know the difference, some days I drive both and it is absolutely noticeable immediately in the handling and ride.
this is the sticker from the fuel door:
Luxury comes with R17 245/45. Normal load is 33F 33R, but you can see above it says for “driving less than 100 mph — the flash is covering a little bit — minus 3 psi”. That means if one is not driving at sustained speeds of 100+ mph, 30F 30R is normal.
Occasional dipping into triple digit speeds is a non issue, even up to 132 mph that my car is limited to due to coming with H (130mph) rated tires from the factory. 33F 33R is only necessary for sustained driving at 100+ mph as the tires will eventually overheat due to deforming at that speed if they don’t have enough tire pressure to maintain uniformity. 10 minutes at 130 mph is not problem though at 30F 30R I think.
I’ve driven 22k miles over the last 10 months and have experimented sufficiently with different pressures. At 33F and higher the front is too choppy for poorly maintained city roads. Not harsh or jarring, but not too far from those adjectives either, so I keep it at 31 psi. Below that and I can sorta, a little bit, feel front sidewalls rolling under the wheel in tight freeway bends that demand one to drop speed to 40 mph, but I do them at 80. Rear pressure has a more pronounced effect on handling, so 33 psi there is nice enough for my driving. 35 is not to bad either there, but 33 gives me sufficient handling characteristic and a tad more cushion in the city, although rear has measurably less effect on ride quality vs the front.
I should add that I drive lie a juvenile adult, routinely 20-30 mph over the posted speed limited and reach over 100 several times a day on my commute. I have the same 160 mile round trip, so I know the road and police ambush spots well. I agree that luxury trimmed E class feels “lose” but yet it’s a controlled ride on the freeway even with my driving style. I guess that’s why the car doesn’t ride plush given its looseness —that harshness on the city roads translates to a controlled, comfortable ride on the freeway even at 100+ mph — despite the loseness. I can wave between cars at up 115 mph confidently (I don’t do it often) which is more than enough 😁. Any faster and a Sport trim would be required for maintaining confidence. But as far just driving in one’s lane, even 130 mph in a tight freeway bend (speed limit 65 mph) is no problem and one hand on th steering is sufficient. Waving through traffic at that speed would require a stiffer suspension
Could you post a fuel door sticker from you Luxury-trimmed sedan?
I also drive fast!, maybe describing the luxury as sloppy was too much, it's not at all, just not nearly as precise in turns or around long curves there is noticeably more body lean, it rides more like my older Benz's, very controlled but way more comfy? I also drive it like my older Benz's, slower, so the transmission program is adjusted differently, I have never reset the luxury with the gas pedal trick, but I do this in the sport when we take it on medium length trips because my wife drives it back and forth to work round trip 6 miles of slow city traffic round trip, so it gets programmed for that, reseting makes it more lively for more spirited driving, if we are going to be in the car for more than 2 hours one way, we take the luxury, just for the cushier ride, I notice you have a flex-fuel car, my sport is flex-fuel, runs like crap on E-85 in my experience and gets 22 MPG instead of 28-32. Flex-fuel cars have different parts in places, specifically spark plugs and coil packs, just an FYI. Both my fuel doors look like this, My sport has the E-85 sticker like yours, otherwise same pressures, I used to run 32 PSI, but I bent two wheels in chuckholes so went back to running 36 PSI, haven't had an issue since, but could just be luck!
I also run 36 psi at all times, still on original wheels and no alignment in 92K miles (2nd set of tires @60K miles)
I can tell when the mechanic or tire technician messes with the tire pressures as soon as the tire warms up. Once I stopped just to measure them, 43 psi on the rear. Was I pissed?
The service agent at the dealership tried twice to align it because of a cut in a tire (steel bar protrusion on a sidewalk I drove too close by ). Both times the car came clean of the alignment, and SA said no charge.
I also drive fast!, maybe describing the luxury as sloppy was too much, it's not at all, just not nearly as precise in turns or around long curves there is noticeably more body lean, it rides more like my older Benz's, very controlled but way more comfy? I also drive it like my older Benz's, slower, so the transmission program is adjusted differently, I have never reset the luxury with the gas pedal trick, but I do this in the sport when we take it on medium length trips because my wife drives it back and forth to work round trip 6 miles of slow city traffic round trip, so it gets programmed for that, reseting makes it more lively for more spirited driving, if we are going to be in the car for more than 2 hours one way, we take the luxury, just for the cushier ride, I notice you have a flex-fuel car, my sport is flex-fuel, runs like crap on E-85 in my experience and gets 22 MPG instead of 28-32. Flex-fuel cars have different parts in places, specifically spark plugs and coil packs, just an FYI. Both my fuel doors look like this, My sport has the E-85 sticker like yours, otherwise same pressures, I used to run 32 PSI, but I bent two wheels in chuckholes so went back to running 36 PSI, haven't had an issue since, but could just be luck!
*Well, it is somewhat sloppy, but still controlled as far as high speed driving? 😁 It does lean in turns, but I don’t carve canyons at high speed, where I could see luxury be a little like cow on ice 😄. But for regular wavy roads with 45 mph speed limit, it’s completely fine. It still has that German aplomb to its handling characteristic
*I’ve never put E-85 in it. I think all cars after a certain year must be able to run on E-85? Mine’s a 2015. My mpg always hovers around 22.5-23.5 on mostly Costco 93 octane. I drive not per my age, but as if I’m 10-15 years younger 🙂
*your sport sticker is showing 36F 36R, which is necessary for 18 inch wheels and 40 profile tires to avoid wheel damage. I see that your sticker does not show “for driving less than 100 mph -3 psi”, like mine does? Anyways, Luxury with 45 profile tires can do with 30F 30R (per sticker) because more tire. That’s why I picked it!
ACould you post your luxury’s fuel door sticker? It’s on 245/45 17 inch wheels, correct? What pressure do you run in it, as I understand your Sport is at 36 all around after a bent wheel at 32 psi.
*Well, it is somewhat sloppy, but still controlled as far as high speed driving? 😁 It does lean in turns, but I don’t carve canyons at high speed, where I could see luxury be a little like cow on ice 😄. But for regular wavy roads with 45 mph speed limit, it’s completely fine. It still has that German aplomb to its handling characteristic
*I’ve never put E-85 in it. I think all cars after a certain year must be able to run on E-85? Mine’s a 2015. My mpg always hovers around 22.5-23.5 on mostly Costco 93 octane. I drive not per my age, but as if I’m 10-15 years younger 🙂
*your sport sticker is showing 36F 36R, which is necessary for 18 inch wheels and 40 profile tires to avoid wheel damage. I see that your sticker does not show “for driving less than 100 mph -3 psi”, like mine does? Anyways, Luxury with 45 profile tires can do with 30F 30R (per sticker) because more tire. That’s why I picked it!
ACould you post your luxury’s fuel door sticker? It’s on 245/45 17 inch wheels, correct? What pressure do you run in it, as I understand your Sport is at 36 all around after a bent wheel at 32 psi.
That was the luxury with the '17 inch wheels, so 36 PSI all around in the sedan,, my sport is "18 wheels, here is the fuel door, also I believe E-85 vehicles are pretty rare in all model years through the end of 212 production, Mostly I would think sent to ethanol country in the midwest, but that's a guess because it seems more common here, This is my sport, I run these "18 inch tires at 36 psi as well
Last edited by pierrejoliat; 05-03-2023 at 10:58 PM.
For me, I do not like the SACHS dampers on my car.
At 110MPH a mere 8-10 degree lane change produce body lean more and ahead of actual lane change, its like a delayed reaction.
The more comfy and more quiet and low cost too, Bilstein B4 is awesome for high speed lane change, now no more delayed reaction. My rear is now Bilstein B6.
For tire pressure, me now uses 32psi front and 33 psi rear for daily and will add 34/36 only when I drive far to Bali, the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 is sporty enough at 32/33 psi.
These tire and Bilstein B4 while basically a standard damper, produce very good cornering Gs I almost could not believe, 0.95+ is easy to get.
The only downside of this car of mine is the Electric Power Steering, it is dull , like very dampened. The tire traction limit for the front is not easy to sense compared to hydraulic steering.
However the positive side is , at 120 to 130 MPH, the steering is so relaxed and straight line tracking is awesome. I mean not much correction needed, due to that dull + dampened.
07-17-2020, 03:31 AM
). Both times the car came clean of the alignment, and SA said no charge.
