E-Class (W212) 2010 - 2016: E 350, E 550

Comprehensive Guide on W212

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Old 01-17-2021, 10:10 PM
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Comprehensive Guide on W212

Here are the general issues that come to mind for when I was looking for a W212. Personally I see threads discussing issues around "What should I be looking for when looking for an E****???"

Here is my general guide to help you
Note: None of the photos below are mine

Firstly: I think its quite interesting to watch the prototype videos to see where this car has come from:



E-Klasse T-Modell Prototype for Pre-Facelift starting around 2008

Facelift Prototyping around 2012 I believe

The facelift of the W212 was one of the most expensive facelift's done to a car ~ 1 Billion Euros

Even with the designer to criticize the Facelift rear doors to have the bottom body line to be useless as it leads to nothing haha.

For W212 Pre-Facelift and Facelift

Transmission Sluggish on Test Drive: Important to remember that the transmission adapts to how you drive. Personally had this issue with my W212 when test driving. I found out that the owner of my car was an older lady. Note: This only resets the adaption, not the actual workings of the transmission fully. Just adaption. Check Youtube for instructions.

Faded Burl Walnut Wood Trim is a very common issue

  • Here is one example, colour becomes very pale and looks like vomit IMO, watch out for that

  • Here is another example of the issue on a Facelift W212
Headlights on Bi-Xenon Models have an issue with the plastic oxidizing. Please refer to the video below:
  • Above is a video from Xentry of how to clean and remedy this issue.
Blind Spot Sensors tend to go bad with cars that drive in colder climates and experience road salt. Check photo below.
  • Check to see through the CarFax and/or service records to see if they have been changed in the past


With the photo above, you can see how dirt can easily get to the sensor because of the placement. I personally hit the bumper to remove debris that can corrode the sensor and spray water every now and then to avoid it from failing. You will see a message in the dash saying "Blind Spot Assist Inoperative" Please refer to photo below:



Oil wicking into engine wiring harness, migrating to the ECU. CEL and misfire may or may not be present.
M271, M272, M276, M157 and M278 engines seems to be pre-2016. Source of leak: camshaft position sensors and camshaft electromagnets. Remedies: camshaft sensor replacement, camshaft electromagnet replacement, installation of adapter harness (M271/M272 engines), engine wiring harness replacement, O2 sensors replacement, ECU replacement . If caught early, the fatal ECU symptom seems like it can be avoided. - MBWorld Member Chassis

E-Class Chirping Sounds from A/C or Cabin: This issue is related to the blower motor. To rectify this issue, replacement Blower Motor is needed. I believe the OE Supplier is Behr.

E-Class Chirping from Engine (General Note): This can be an issue with the breather valve or pulleys. When removing the oil cap, the chirping sound can disappear. This is most likely due to the breather valve. Otherwise it is a pulley's bearing that has it's bearing worn out. Refer to video below for breather valve issue
This is a GLK but with the same M276 engine. Note for E350's and E300's for my Canadians

E63 AMG M156 Head Bolts Issue: Tend to break due to the design of the bolts + corrosion. Unsure of the vin range but check around the forum

E350 M272 Oil Cooler Leak: With age, the Oil cooler seal tends to fail and leak oil out. You will see oil seepage around the oil cooler housing, located near oil the oil filter. Unable to find a photo that outlines this issue

E350/E300 M276.952 & E550/E500 M278 & M157 Variant Timing Chain Rattle: Upon a cold start up, you will hear the timing chain rattle for 2-5 Seconds. Off the top of my head, I can't remember what needs to be done. Depending on the Vin Range, an updated timing chain is required, chain tensioners, and check valves need to be replaced and timing to be corrected. If the start sound occurs every now and then and in only extreme cold temperatures, then its not fully necessary to carry out repair. But if you have warranty through MB or Third party, I don't see why not then.

E350/E300 M276.952 Timing Chain Cover Oil Leak: Personally had this issue. From factory the timing chain covers are not sealed correctly, causing them to leak. Resealing the timing chain covers is required and is labour intensive. Remove front engine cover andpreform visual inspection.

M276 Engine Oil Dipstick Popping up: This is an issue either with the Breather Valve or O-Ring of the Dipstick. Check by starting engine and removing the engine oil cap and putting your hand over. You should feel your hand wanting to be sucked in. If this is the case, the oil dipstick o-ring needs to be replaced. If you hand has the feeling to want to move upwards, the breather valve needs to be inspected.

E350 Bluetec: Personally do not know too much around the AdBlue system, but a AdBlue drain and refill should be done every few years if I remember correctly. and possibly Timing Chain?

2014-15 E-Class Models with Harman Kardon Speakers Melting: Personally had this issue. Issue happens randomly and you will hear a crackling sound whether the Command unit is on or off. Tends to be the Passenger Rear and Subwoofer to go out. But other forum members have reported other speakers to go out. Check by moving the Balance of the sound via the Command. Still unsure of what causes this. It appears this issue happens in warmer climates, but possible update of the command can maybe help this? As some other members have stated, the issue can be connected to the Amplifier. A revised part number is out for the Amplifier in my findings. I think it has something to do with the Amplifier overheating and causing speakers to short.

This is what it will sound like:

Buttons flaking coating: This is an issue possibly due to temperature or nail polish remover. Only proper way to remedy this issue is to replace the unit of whatever is peeling. or can get decals off eBay or Amazon

  • This appears to be an A204 unsure of S204 or W204 but this is the issue. Apparent on many MB Models. This one above is not that bad, the whole button can go white (Or green or red if the buttons are the hang up and pick up on the command unit)
Panoramic Roof Creaking: If you notice crackling when going over bumps with a 212 equipped with Panoramic. The bolts responsible for holding the panel to the roof have loosened due to hot and cold temperatures. To remedy, you'll need to drop the headliner and tighten the bolts and adding blue LocTite. If tacking as a DIY be careful of the sharp edges of the roof can cut your fingers, speaking from personal experience lol when doing a friends car.

Parking Brake Pedal not wanting to release: Personally had this issue as well. You will need to spray WD-40 and apply lubricant to fix this issue. Refer to the video below.

MB-Tex Seam Failure: Will need new seat cover to remedy the issue. I believe it has been fixed with a new part number. Since this, the fake seam is no longer two pieces in the revised part. There is also a bulletin on this.


E-Class Facelift Taillight failure: You will notice one or two taillights to flicker or to be dim. Hitting the taillight seems to cause it to turn back on. New taillight is required or cutting into the taillight can warrant a repair. Check videos on YouTube for repair and to see if you're affected. Note: A warning in the dash does not always appear. Visual inspection is required for evaluation. Below is what it looks like:



2014 E-Class Mid-Production Changes: Two things that I noticed that changed mid-cycle is the badging on the trunk lid/boot lid. The badging for W211 and W212 (2010-Mid 2014) has always been the same. The badging on the trunk lid is now thinner and sleeker for Mid 2014 - 2016. Also the headrest dropdown was removed for the Mid-2014-2016.

Command Screen Issues on W212: Personally the screen gets quite scratched on all models as people do not know how sensitive the screen is. Also the backlight has some unevenness issues but it comes and goes on mine, inspect when buying.

Command Knob Failure: From Factory, they chose to use a plastic part that fails overtime due to temperature fluctuations and wear & tear. Command knob can be repaired with a metal part. Check eBay and places for the part. DiY is possible.

Power Folding Mirror Opening past threshold: You will notice the mirror swing all the way open. I believe a capacitor is needed to fix this or new mirror assembly is required.

W212 OEM "Avantgarde/Sport Model" Brake Rotors Warping: This has been quite the problem for OEM Rotors. Unsure as to why this happens. Guess poor ventilation of the rotors. MY2014 model year of my car has had rotors replaced several times by the previous owner. Test when test driving your potential W212 to see if this is an issue. Can also be wheel balancing issue as some mechanics have told me. But you will notice a shake in the steering wheel when you push on the brakes at high speed.

ECO Start/Stop always Yellow/ not working: This TYPICALLY has to do with the Cold Cranking Amps of the Main Battery being low. This is from the age of the battery. Main battery replacement is required, but confirm SDConnect/Xentry or Autozone/PartSource near you. This was personally my problem. But there are many requirements that need to be met for ECO to function/be Green. Just to name some:
  • Seatbelt on?
  • Is the engine temperature past 60°C?
  • Fuel Temperature?
  • A/C Cabin Temperature met?
  • Outside Temperature?
  • All Doors Closed?

Center Console Tray not springing back that nicely: Repair below, DiY-able. Personally have done it and it not too bad


Well. I hope this all helps. This is just what I remember off the top of my head. Here's my 2014 E350 W4M Canada Spec.




792 Palladium Silver
Black ANTHRACITE aka Black Leather Interior
(Notice the Keyless Go Button is a diagram, I think this is because Canada is a Bilingual Country)

Options
  • Driver's Assistance Package
  • Premium Package (Harman Kardon, Keyless GO, Parktronic and etc.)
  • Heated Rear Seats
  • Locking Lug Nuts
  • 360° Camera
  • AMG Style 18" Wheels (Not in Pictures)
  • ARTICO Stitched Dash
  • Intelligent Light System
  • Heated Steering Wheel

Add ons I've Added
  • MB Roof Rack (Avoid if I were you, losing the end caps is not fun) and Bike Racks
  • WeatherTech Mats
  • MB Cargo Tray
  • Comfort Box/Connivence Box
  • MB Coat Hanger
  • OEM Spoiler off E63 (Accessory included on 16 W212 Canadian Models)
  • Distronic Star
  • 45% Suntek Carbon Tint
  • PPF on Front Bumper and Headlights Xpel Ultimate

Coding:
  • ILS to EU
  • Trunk Closure via SmartKey
  • All way Air Distribution through vents
  • Fuel in Litres
  • Traffic Sign Assist
  • Typing in Motion
  • Map Update to 2020
  • Tunnel Mode
  • SMS in Motion

Repairs/Maintenance I've experienced (M276.952) with ~172.900KM (Owned since ~111.000KM) (Updated 12/7/21):

Previous Owner:
  • Replaced under tray; Customer Drove over log
  • Brake Rotors Several times due to warping
  • Windshield resealed due to wind noise
  • Oil (5W-40), Oil filter, Cabin Air Filter, and Key batteries and etc.
By me:
  • Bosch Spark Plugs (Did it a bit overdue)
  • Bosch Wipers (Not universal, OE for 212 series with updated arms)
  • Main Battery
  • Timing Chain covers leaking (Resealed)
  • Dip Stick O-Ring (Dip Stick Popping up issue)
  • Speaker Melting Issue (Almost Done haha)
  • Temperature Sensor (Ripped off by dealer when changing Cabin Air Filter at some point in its life)
  • Parking Sensor pushed into bumper
  • Engine Air Filter
  • Cabin Air Filter (Mann Frecious Plus)
  • New Lower Centre Chrome piece for front bumper
  • Center Console Tension Repair
  • Transmission Service
  • Sunroof Greased
  • Chrome Trim along door replaced (Kinda damaged it when loading bikes onto the roof)
  • Recall (Steering Rack Bolts) Internal Bulletin
  • Replaced Front Passenger Side Window Switch
  • Front Pads and Rotors
  • Left Outer Taillight

Overall the W212 is very reliable and I'm sure you will love it, just watch out for these and you'll be fine

Check out AMGmeister's video for more on AMG models




Last edited by ml3504matic____; 12-07-2021 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 01-18-2021, 01:22 AM
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The facelift cars, US model years 2014-2016, the E350's came in two flavors, "Sport" and "Luxury". when I was shopping this last 3-4 months, the "Sport" outnumbered the "Luxury" 10:1.

sport has...
  • sport grill with big logo in middle, amg front air dam trim... this involves different hood, fenders, bumper
  • AMG trim in back with dual pipes sticking out of air diffuser.
  • AMG sport steering wheel with flat spot at bottom
  • stiffer springs, stiffer shocks
  • 18" wheels with split spoke and 245/40R18 XL tires
Luxury has....
  • old style lattice grill, with mercedes badge on hood. this involves differnet hood, bumper, fenders.
  • hidden exhaust, no rear lowered diffuser
  • softer springs, shocks
  • standard leather wrapped mercedes wheel with round bottom
  • 17" 5-spoke wheels with 245/45R17 XL tires
there may have been different interior color trim combinations offered with these, our White Luxury wagon with parchment mbtex has a deep brown dashboard with brown steering wheel, i find it very tasteful. the sports I drove were all black dash, but they were different color combinations.

The "Sport" cars rode much harsher than the Luxury cars on the sorts of bad back roads found in rural Northern California.

vv - Luxury 2016 E350 below.

Last edited by Left Coast Geek; 01-18-2021 at 01:27 AM.
Old 01-18-2021, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Left Coast Geek
The facelift cars, US model years 2014-2016, the E350's came in two flavors, "Sport" and "Luxury". when I was shopping this last 3-4 months, the "Sport" outnumbered the "Luxury" 10:1.

sport has...
  • sport grill with big logo in middle, amg front air dam trim... this involves different hood, fenders, bumper
  • AMG trim in back with dual pipes sticking out of air diffuser.
  • stiffer springs, stiffer shocks
  • 18" wheels with split spoke and 245/40R18 XL tires
Luxury has....
  • old style lattice grill, with mercedes badge on hood. this involves differnet hood, bumper, fenders.
  • hidden exhaust, no rear lowered diffuser
  • softer springs, shocks
  • 17" 5-spoke wheels with 245/45R17 XL tires
Odometers are different colours as well. Black for the Luxury models and White dials for the Sport/Avantgarde models
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Old 01-18-2021, 01:43 AM
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2016's, and only 2016's, with the HK Logic7 audio package and factory nav and stuff *can* be upgraded to have Android Auto and Apple CarPlay support.

the short version is, you MUST have the Hu5S1 head unit,


and you HAVE to bring it to a dealer, and probably pay for an hours labor to have your Hu5S1 firmware upgraded to the latest, THEN you have to get a dongle from this guy on ebay, which will enable the options that are available on 2017-2019 W213 cars using the same head unit.... once this is done, you can use carplay/android on your car screen, your phone will be plugged into USB 2.

this long rambling thread, got me there.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...16-w212-2.html
I should do an 2016 Carplay/Android Auto Redux thread that cuts to the chase and summarized exactly what I needed to do to make it work, and if I do that, I'll replace the above link.

once its working, here's how you use it.
https://pierce.smugmug.com/Misc/Hu5s1-Android-Auto/

net result....

Last edited by Left Coast Geek; 01-18-2021 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:02 PM
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Great writeup fellow W212 owner
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Left Coast Geek
The facelift cars, US model years 2014-2016, the E350's came in two flavors, "Sport" and "Luxury". when I was shopping this last 3-4 months, the "Sport" outnumbered the "Luxury" 10:1.

sport has...
  • sport grill with big logo in middle, amg front air dam trim... this involves different hood, fenders, bumper
  • AMG trim in back with dual pipes sticking out of air diffuser.
  • AMG sport steering wheel with flat spot at bottom
  • stiffer springs, stiffer shocks
  • 18" wheels with split spoke and 245/40R18 XL tires

Only the bumper/grille is different between the sport and luxury trims - hood and fenders are the same. AMG sport flat bottom wheel is an option rather than standard. As for the suspension, sports come with code 677 which should be the same as the luxury with a -15mm ride height. All interior colors and wood combinations should have been available across either trim.

2016 Sport interior (mine):




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Old 01-19-2021, 01:28 PM
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@LILBENZ230 , does your W212 flat-bottom steering wheel have the ability to be heated? I pretty much have the exact same interior except the steering wheel isn't flat bottomed but can be heated (minus the cooled seats which I do not have either).

As per my understanding, all the flat-bottom steering wheel are standard in terms of not heated.

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Old 01-19-2021, 02:34 PM
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My wheel is not heated. It could be, as an option. It’s the wood wheels that cannot be on the W212
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:03 PM
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Found this on MB's startek site... ALL US W212 models...

Model / Chassis / Engine
E350 (BLUETEC) 212.024 624.850
E350 212.056 272.980
E350 212.056 272.964
E350 212.059 276.952
E550 212.072 273.971
E63 AMG 212.074 157.981
E63 AMG 212.077 156.985
E350 4MATIC 212.087 272.977
E350 4MATIC 212.088 276.952
E550 4MATIC 212.090 273.970
E550 4MATIC 212.091 278.922
E400 Hybrid 212.095 276.952
E63 AMG Wagon 212.274 157.981
E63 AMG Wagon 212.277 156.985
E350 Wagon 4MATIC 212.287 272.977
E350 Wagon 4MATIC 212.288 276.952


Old 01-19-2021, 09:51 PM
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Impressive collection of videos & information in general.
That must have taken a while to compose the post.
Thanks - it may be true that the W212 is a modern day classic. There was a post to that effect a couple of months ago.
I do wish they had done a better job of isolating tire noise on pavement. And the UV protection omission on the woodwork is just sad.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LILBENZ230
My wheel is not heated. It could be, as an option. It’s the wood wheels that cannot be on the W212
Flat bottom steering wheels cannot be heated. When option is selected, the steering wheel will be round. but there are versions that look the same that aren’t heated.
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Old 01-19-2021, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
I do wish they had done a better job of isolating tire noise on pavement. And the UV protection omission on the woodwork is just sad.
I found of the bunch I drove, the 18" wheels were much noisier, and the continental tires are very noisy. the 'luxury' wagon with 17" has very little tire noise, and if I replace the contiis with Michelin Primacy, I expect that noise to go away entirely.
Old 01-20-2021, 05:31 AM
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The differences between 2010-2016 model years is the following (This is more cosmetics and etc):

2010 vs. 2011

The last half of 2011 share the new NTG 4.5 Command System, previously NTG 4.0 for 2010 and half of 2011 models

2011-2012

Though both can be equipped with the Harman Kardon Sound system, the speakers have been revised for 2012-Present A212 Model Years I believe. Older ones share the green/turquoise speaker cone
The Instrument Cluster changes from the monotone screen to the "now common LCD or LED backlit panel"
Steering Wheel Style Change
Engines change (M272 to M276) (M273 to M278) (M156 to M157 I think for this model year)
Wheel Revision (Unsure what model year), the back of the spokes and country of manufacturing changed for my Winter Wheels (Photo in OG Post) Changed from Germany to Italy. They seem to be slightly different on the back of each spoke.

2012 vs. 2013

The command and instrument panel change from Papyrus to The Grey Look (This can be updated for older models that have the LCD Screen in the instrument cluster via Xentry/SD Connect)
The Steering column controls change to the new updated style that we still use today

2013 vs. 2014

Updated Timing Chain should be installed for this model year. Remove Engine Oil cap and try to take a photo of the chain and visually inspect the links to see if they're the updated ones.
Command Online functions are now on the command
Facelift of course, not going to get into this to much but will mention the small touches;
  1. Chrome Inner Door Handles change to matte/satin chrome
  2. Seat controls resemble a satin metal finish
  3. Command surround is changed
  4. Floor Mat clips are now on the passenger side (Unsure if it was a facelift decision)
  5. Chrome pieces in cabin are overall changed to the a satin look
  6. 3 Colour options for Interior Lighting
  7. New Cluster
2014 vs. 2015

Personally don't notice much of a change here
Facelift AMG Wheels became popular for the 15 model year in Canada, the AMG PreFacelift wheel that carried over disappeared.
For Canadian models, E350 was discontinued and was replaced with E400
6 Disc CD Changer was removed for MY15
Subwoofer burning smell exclusive to MY14 only

2015 vs. 2016

New NTG 5.0 Command (CarPlay can be retrofitted with software only)
New Amplifier (Ask me how I know lol)

Last edited by ml3504matic____; 11-26-2021 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 01-20-2021, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
Impressive collection of videos & information in general.
That must have taken a while to compose the post.
Thanks - it may be true that the W212 is a modern day classic. There was a post to that effect a couple of months ago.
I do wish they had done a better job of isolating tire noise on pavement. And the UV protection omission on the woodwork is just sad.
I was extremely bored one night and decided to share the knowledge I have. I didn't search much of this when writing, for some reason I remember this all in my head from previous times I've searched.

Last edited by ml3504matic____; 11-26-2021 at 01:58 AM.
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Old 01-22-2021, 02:46 PM
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@ml3504matic____ Don't forget Airmatic issues and rusty lugs.
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Old 02-07-2021, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Left Coast Geek
The facelift cars, US model years 2014-2016, the E350's came in two flavors, "Sport" and "Luxury". when I was shopping this last 3-4 months, the "Sport" outnumbered the "Luxury" 10:1.

sport has...
  • sport grill with big logo in middle, amg front air dam trim... this involves different hood, fenders, bumper
  • AMG trim in back with dual pipes sticking out of air diffuser.
  • AMG sport steering wheel with flat spot at bottom
  • stiffer springs, stiffer shocks
  • 18" wheels with split spoke and 245/40R18 XL tires
Luxury has....
  • old style lattice grill, with mercedes badge on hood. this involves differnet hood, bumper, fenders.
  • hidden exhaust, no rear lowered diffuser
  • softer springs, shocks
  • standard leather wrapped mercedes wheel with round bottom
  • 17" 5-spoke wheels with 245/45R17 XL tires
there may have been different interior color trim combinations offered with these, our White Luxury wagon with parchment mbtex has a deep brown dashboard with brown steering wheel, i find it very tasteful. the sports I drove were all black dash, but they were different color combinations.

The "Sport" cars rode much harsher than the Luxury cars on the sorts of bad back roads found in rural Northern California.

vv - Luxury 2016 E350 below.
how did you code the trunk closure with smart key? I have a 2010 that is currently a manual close. Thanks
Old 02-07-2021, 02:53 PM
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2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition 4x4
Originally Posted by pb39374
how did you code the trunk closure with smart key? I have a 2010 that is currently a manual close. Thanks
I don't know, my 2016 wagon rear hatch has power open with the remote, but you have to push a button on the hatch to close it.
Old 02-08-2021, 12:01 AM
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2015 ML400 4MATIC, 2014 E350 4MATIC, 2006 E350
Originally Posted by pb39374
how did you code the trunk closure with smart key? I have a 2010 that is currently a manual close. Thanks
I got it coded in by MB House, so not too sure.

It's a matter of coding if you have the button the trunk to close it.
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pierrejoliat (02-08-2021)
Old 06-12-2021, 09:59 AM
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12 E63 P30, 18 C63s CAB, 15 ML Diesel, 15 GLK Diesel
2012 E 63 US Import Numbers by color

Where can I find the production/Import numbers for US/North America 2012 E63?
Old 06-12-2021, 12:45 PM
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2015 ML400 4MATIC, 2014 E350 4MATIC, 2006 E350
Originally Posted by ahmac
Where can I find the production/Import numbers for US/North America 2012 E63?
I’m not sure, but AMGMeister I think covers it in his YouTube videos on the W212
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Old 11-23-2021, 02:48 AM
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2015 ML400 4MATIC, 2014 E350 4MATIC, 2006 E350
Another note to add: 2014 models have 6-Disc Changers, while 2015's only have single disc changers, at least for the Canadian Market
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Old 11-23-2021, 03:36 AM
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2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition 4x4
Originally Posted by ml3504matic____
Another note to add: 2014 models have 6-Disc Changers, while 2015's only have single disc changers, at least for the Canadian Market

whats a 'disc' ? heh. i have 1000s of CDs and I don't think I've ever played one in the wagon. been a few years since I played a CD anywheres. I mostly stream spotify, sometimes I listen to radio paradise, all from my phone.
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ml3504matic____ (11-26-2021)
Old 11-23-2021, 07:00 PM
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2015 E400 and 2015 GLK350
Originally Posted by ml3504matic____
Another note to add: 2014 models have 6-Disc Changers, while 2015's only have single disc changers, at least for the Canadian Market
My 2015 E400 has only a single disc CD player. They expect you to "rip" the music files into .mp3 files and store them on the internal hard disk drive of your Comand unit.

That would be fine. . . if I thought that the sound quality of their .mp3 was equal to that of the original CD.
Old 11-23-2021, 09:50 PM
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for the "All way Air Distribution through vents". does anyone have a how to on the coding. or a link the place that can do it?
Old 11-24-2021, 02:43 AM
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2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
Originally Posted by Left Coast Geek
whats a 'disc' ? heh. i have 1000s of CDs and I don't think I've ever played one in the wagon. been a few years since I played a CD anywheres. I mostly stream spotify, sometimes I listen to radio paradise, all from my phone.
Oh yeah both of my cars have the 6 disc changers. Never used them. I'm told they work from people who've borrowed the car.


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