2013 E350 M276 Misfire nighmare
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 186
Likes: 143
E350 Sport
My scan tool says it has 150 to 200 bar fuel pressure. That is idle and at RPM. 1 bar is 14.7 lbs pressure. I do not have a gauge to test pressure above 2,000 PSI+ so I trust my scan tool. My 2012 with same engine tests the same for FP so I have no concern about pressure. Pressure would affect all cylinders not just one. Test drive last night was a flop. Could not give the car any gas without misfires and quickly to a check engie light.
Direct injected engines use Hard lines for Fuel to hold this 2,000+ pressure. The lines are bolted down in 5 locations. This is a serious system to contain this very high fuel pressure. Not a simple plug and play injector like you had prior to the M276 design. Those operated at 61 PSI and everything including all tests are easy. Not so when playing with 2,000 PSI +. To remove these injectors is about a 4 hour job. Not a quick check the injector like in the past engines. The high pressure fuel pump is protected by a heavy steel plate held with 4 hard to get to bolts, ok, 3 not too bad but the final bolt is near impossible to get in and out. Plan at least 30 minutes for that one. That plate has to come off to access the other bolts. I have done the job 4 or 5 times now so it is a faster now but the first time takes forever. I did inspect the fuel rail when I had it out. I watched the fuel drain from the #1 injector boss when I pulled the injector out and when empty I looked up inside with a bright light. Did not see anything at all. I figure if fuel can drain out it can be pushed out at 2,000 PSI?
I am pretty convinced it is the PCM but I plan to try and use the WIS to trace the PCM grounds down and see if there is any chance maybe that #1 is on a separate ground than the other 5? Not likely. I suspect the driver for the #1 fuel Injector is damaged inside the PCM but again, have no real experience to know this. A waveform tool would help but as of yet I don’t have one. ( yes I use PCM because my scan tool calls it the PCM, PCM=ECM=engine control computer, hard to keep up with proper terms)
Direct injected engines use Hard lines for Fuel to hold this 2,000+ pressure. The lines are bolted down in 5 locations. This is a serious system to contain this very high fuel pressure. Not a simple plug and play injector like you had prior to the M276 design. Those operated at 61 PSI and everything including all tests are easy. Not so when playing with 2,000 PSI +. To remove these injectors is about a 4 hour job. Not a quick check the injector like in the past engines. The high pressure fuel pump is protected by a heavy steel plate held with 4 hard to get to bolts, ok, 3 not too bad but the final bolt is near impossible to get in and out. Plan at least 30 minutes for that one. That plate has to come off to access the other bolts. I have done the job 4 or 5 times now so it is a faster now but the first time takes forever. I did inspect the fuel rail when I had it out. I watched the fuel drain from the #1 injector boss when I pulled the injector out and when empty I looked up inside with a bright light. Did not see anything at all. I figure if fuel can drain out it can be pushed out at 2,000 PSI?
I am pretty convinced it is the PCM but I plan to try and use the WIS to trace the PCM grounds down and see if there is any chance maybe that #1 is on a separate ground than the other 5? Not likely. I suspect the driver for the #1 fuel Injector is damaged inside the PCM but again, have no real experience to know this. A waveform tool would help but as of yet I don’t have one. ( yes I use PCM because my scan tool calls it the PCM, PCM=ECM=engine control computer, hard to keep up with proper terms)
Last edited by Westlotorn; Jun 7, 2023 at 01:36 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,644
Likes: 4,551
From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
What is the history of this vehicle?
Has the fuel system been tampered with or vandalized (sugar or sand in the tank)?
Surprised at the difficulty in solving this.
XENTRY would be helpful. Message @BenzNinja
Has the fuel system been tampered with or vandalized (sugar or sand in the tank)?
Surprised at the difficulty in solving this.
XENTRY would be helpful. Message @BenzNinja
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,964
Likes: 1,340
From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
My scan tool says it has 150 to 200 bar fuel pressure. That is idle and at RPM. 1 bar is 14.7 lbs pressure. I do not have a gauge to test pressure above 2,000 PSI+ so I trust my scan tool. My 2012 with same engine tests the same for FP so I have no concern about pressure. Pressure would affect all cylinders not just one. Test drive last night was a flop. Could not give the car any gas without misfires and quickly to a check engie light.
Direct injected engines use Hard lines for Fuel to hold this 2,000+ pressure. The lines are bolted down in 5 locations. This is a serious system to contain this very high fuel pressure. Not a simple plug and play injector like you had prior to the M276 design. Those operated at 61 PSI and everything including all tests are easy. Not so when playing with 2,000 PSI +. To remove these injectors is about a 4 hour job. Not a quick check the injector like in the past engines. The high pressure fuel pump is protected by a heavy steel plate held with 4 hard to get to bolts, ok, 3 not too bad but the final bolt is near impossible to get in and out. Plan at least 30 minutes for that one. That plate has to come off to access the other bolts. I have done the job 4 or 5 times now so it is a faster now but the first time takes forever. I did inspect the fuel rail when I had it out. I watched the fuel drain from the # hole when I pulled the injector out and when empty I looked up inside with a bright light. Did not see anything at all. I figure if fuel can drain out it can be pushed out at 2,000 PSI?
I am pretty convinced it is the PCM but I plan to try and use the WIS to trace the PCM grounds down and see if there is any chance maybe that #1 is on a separate ground than the other 5? Not likely. I suspect the driver for the #1 fuel pump is damaged inside the PCM but again, have no real experience to know this. A waveform tool would help but as of yet I don’t have one.
Direct injected engines use Hard lines for Fuel to hold this 2,000+ pressure. The lines are bolted down in 5 locations. This is a serious system to contain this very high fuel pressure. Not a simple plug and play injector like you had prior to the M276 design. Those operated at 61 PSI and everything including all tests are easy. Not so when playing with 2,000 PSI +. To remove these injectors is about a 4 hour job. Not a quick check the injector like in the past engines. The high pressure fuel pump is protected by a heavy steel plate held with 4 hard to get to bolts, ok, 3 not too bad but the final bolt is near impossible to get in and out. Plan at least 30 minutes for that one. That plate has to come off to access the other bolts. I have done the job 4 or 5 times now so it is a faster now but the first time takes forever. I did inspect the fuel rail when I had it out. I watched the fuel drain from the # hole when I pulled the injector out and when empty I looked up inside with a bright light. Did not see anything at all. I figure if fuel can drain out it can be pushed out at 2,000 PSI?
I am pretty convinced it is the PCM but I plan to try and use the WIS to trace the PCM grounds down and see if there is any chance maybe that #1 is on a separate ground than the other 5? Not likely. I suspect the driver for the #1 fuel pump is damaged inside the PCM but again, have no real experience to know this. A waveform tool would help but as of yet I don’t have one.
This may be worth a look.
https://automotivetechinfo.com/wp-co...and-Tricks.pdf
Last edited by MBNUT1; Jun 7, 2023 at 12:59 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,964
Likes: 1,340
From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
What is the history of this vehicle?
Has the fuel system been tampered with or vandalized (sugar or sand in the tank)?
Surprised at the difficulty in solving this.
XENTRY would be helpful. Message @BenzNinja
Has the fuel system been tampered with or vandalized (sugar or sand in the tank)?
Surprised at the difficulty in solving this.
XENTRY would be helpful. Message @BenzNinja
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,009
Likes: 1,464
From: U.S.
Current/Last 5-years:GLS;G70;Alpina B8;X7;Accord. Sold:X7,TeslaS;S560;S550,X5;530e;L.Navigator;LS460
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 186
Likes: 143
E350 Sport
The scan tool has saved my bacon many times, but it is no cheap information, $1,300 up front, and then $400 per year to keep it updated. I wish I could pass on the updates and use it but if you don't update it they have programing that shuts it down for you. I love the tool and the function but I bought it, I own it, it should continue to work if I choose no more updates. It does 2 way communication so it allowed me to trace a hard to find ABS issue a while back, Tire pressure monitors, Transmission programming, Seat and window motor checks. It is good, not sure how the others compare, AUTEL is mentioned a lot. It takes a while to learn to use the information and every car uses it's own descriptions and information is under unique file names so for each car you have to learn more. It does not offer electrical diagrams, just gives information about the systems. It is really good for studying O2 sensors and CATS to see if they are working properly. On this M276 your help and others let me trace many things I did not have the ability to do. I know issues were found and fixed but the dang car still will not run right. Getting closer. I almost purchased a Wave Form scanner yesterday, only thing stopping me was the learning curve, another tool I know nothing about.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,964
Likes: 1,340
From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
So I just want to applaud everything that you have done so far and your taking the time to share that with this forum. I am very confident that you will get to the root cause of this issue.
As Red Green would say. "I'm pulling for you. We are all in this together!"
As Red Green would say. "I'm pulling for you. We are all in this together!"
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 186
Likes: 143
E350 Sport
Back to repairs, trying to find good information to test the High Pressure Piezo fuel injectors I found this and thought I would share for future users. At this point I still think my problem is internal in the Car Computer. I just don't want to purchase a new ECM before proving it is not something else. The ECM can be very expensive including programming it to work. Information provided by Ditex
Piezo Injector Tests By applying voltage on the piezo element, there is an extension created. This extension depends on the voltage and the amount of piezo elements.
WARNING HIGH VOLTAGE: Piezo injectors normally operate at voltages up to 200 volts.
Extreme care should be taken to protect against shock. Do not touch any of the injector terminals while the engine is running.
Not using input attenuators and connecting oscilloscope directly may damage it.
WARNING HIGH VOLTAGE: Piezo injectors normally operate at voltages up to 200 volts. Extreme care should be taken to protect against shock. Do not touch any of the injector terminals while the engine is running. Not using input attenuators and connecting oscilloscope directly may damage it.
Piezo Injector Tests By applying voltage on the piezo element, there is an extension created. This extension depends on the voltage and the amount of piezo elements.
- The piezo element extends
- The hydraulic movement structure moves down
- The three way valve moves down
- The needle is being lifted
- Make sure ignition is off and the engine is not started.
- Disconnect the two-pin injector connector.
- Connect an ohmmeter between each of the injector terminals and the injector casing.
Neither should be connected to the casing (Earth or “-“). - Then connect the ohmmeter between the terminals of the injector connector.
Resistance must be between 150 and 210 kiloohms. - Plug in the injector connector.
WARNING HIGH VOLTAGE: Piezo injectors normally operate at voltages up to 200 volts.
Extreme care should be taken to protect against shock. Do not touch any of the injector terminals while the engine is running.
Not using input attenuators and connecting oscilloscope directly may damage it.
- Set all oscilloscope input to 200V (full scale).
- Connect the active test lead of channel #1 to the positive terminal of one of the injectors.
Then connect the ground lead to the chassis ground. - Connect an AC/DC current clamp to another oscilloscope channel.
Set the AC/DC current clamp range to ±20A.
Important note: Only one of the two wires should be clamped, and not both of them. It doesn’t matter which wire will be clipped with the current clamp: the positive or the negative one. This will only affect the polarity of the measured current. - Start the engine, warm it to operating temperature and leave it idling
- Compare result with the waveform in fig. 4. Blue signal is oscilloscope channel A and corresponds to the injector current. Red signal on the screen correspond to the injector operating voltage and channel B of the oscilloscope.
WARNING HIGH VOLTAGE: Piezo injectors normally operate at voltages up to 200 volts. Extreme care should be taken to protect against shock. Do not touch any of the injector terminals while the engine is running. Not using input attenuators and connecting oscilloscope directly may damage it.
- Set all oscilloscope inputs to 200V (full scale).
- Connect the active test lead of channel #1 to the positive terminal of the first injector.
Then connect the ground lead to the chassis ground. - Connect the active test lead of channel #2 to the positive terminal of the second injector.
- Connect the active test lead of channel #3 to the positive terminal of the third injector.
- Connect the active test lead of channel #4 to the positive terminal of the fourth injector.
- Start the engine, warm it to operating temperature and leave it idling.
- Compare result for each injector with the waveform in fig.5
- Open circuit or short to positive or to ground in wire(s)
- No or poor plug connection conduction
- Ground connection is loose or corroded
- Internal electrical fault: the internal piezo stack actuator burns out and short to the casing.
- Mechanical fault in component
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,009
Likes: 1,464
From: U.S.
Current/Last 5-years:GLS;G70;Alpina B8;X7;Accord. Sold:X7,TeslaS;S560;S550,X5;530e;L.Navigator;LS460
I was thinking the same. It’s fun and exciting to explore things and on our own and he’s done tremendous job navigating all this.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,964
Likes: 1,340
From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
Back to repairs, trying to find good information to test the High Pressure Piezo fuel injectors I found this and thought I would share for future users. At this point I still think my problem is internal in the Car Computer. I just don't want to purchase a new ECM before proving it is not something else. The ECM can be very expensive including programming it to work. Information provided by Ditex
Piezo Injector Tests By applying voltage on the piezo element, there is an extension created. This extension depends on the voltage and the amount of piezo elements.
WARNING HIGH VOLTAGE: Piezo injectors normally operate at voltages up to 200 volts.
Extreme care should be taken to protect against shock. Do not touch any of the injector terminals while the engine is running.
Not using input attenuators and connecting oscilloscope directly may damage it.
WARNING HIGH VOLTAGE: Piezo injectors normally operate at voltages up to 200 volts. Extreme care should be taken to protect against shock. Do not touch any of the injector terminals while the engine is running. Not using input attenuators and connecting oscilloscope directly may damage it.
Piezo Injector Tests By applying voltage on the piezo element, there is an extension created. This extension depends on the voltage and the amount of piezo elements.
- The piezo element extends
- The hydraulic movement structure moves down
- The three way valve moves down
- The needle is being lifted
- Make sure ignition is off and the engine is not started.
- Disconnect the two-pin injector connector.
- Connect an ohmmeter between each of the injector terminals and the injector casing.
Neither should be connected to the casing (Earth or “-“). - Then connect the ohmmeter between the terminals of the injector connector.
Resistance must be between 150 and 210 kiloohms. - Plug in the injector connector.
WARNING HIGH VOLTAGE: Piezo injectors normally operate at voltages up to 200 volts.
Extreme care should be taken to protect against shock. Do not touch any of the injector terminals while the engine is running.
Not using input attenuators and connecting oscilloscope directly may damage it.
- Set all oscilloscope input to 200V (full scale).
- Connect the active test lead of channel #1 to the positive terminal of one of the injectors.
Then connect the ground lead to the chassis ground. - Connect an AC/DC current clamp to another oscilloscope channel.
Set the AC/DC current clamp range to ±20A.
Important note: Only one of the two wires should be clamped, and not both of them. It doesn’t matter which wire will be clipped with the current clamp: the positive or the negative one. This will only affect the polarity of the measured current. - Start the engine, warm it to operating temperature and leave it idling
- Compare result with the waveform in fig. 4. Blue signal is oscilloscope channel A and corresponds to the injector current. Red signal on the screen correspond to the injector operating voltage and channel B of the oscilloscope.
WARNING HIGH VOLTAGE: Piezo injectors normally operate at voltages up to 200 volts. Extreme care should be taken to protect against shock. Do not touch any of the injector terminals while the engine is running. Not using input attenuators and connecting oscilloscope directly may damage it.
- Set all oscilloscope inputs to 200V (full scale).
- Connect the active test lead of channel #1 to the positive terminal of the first injector.
Then connect the ground lead to the chassis ground. - Connect the active test lead of channel #2 to the positive terminal of the second injector.
- Connect the active test lead of channel #3 to the positive terminal of the third injector.
- Connect the active test lead of channel #4 to the positive terminal of the fourth injector.
- Start the engine, warm it to operating temperature and leave it idling.
- Compare result for each injector with the waveform in fig.5
- Open circuit or short to positive or to ground in wire(s)
- No or poor plug connection conduction
- Ground connection is loose or corroded
- Internal electrical fault: the internal piezo stack actuator burns out and short to the casing.
- Mechanical fault in component
Are you able to access the injector terminals with the connector connected to the injector?
Also I am wondering if there is somewhere you could send the ECM out for testing and repair rather than purchase new. I would think that would at least save the programming cost.
I am thinking I would give one of these shops a call and see if it sounds likely to them that based on their experience this is a common failure. They might even be able to suggest simple tests to determine if the ECM is failed.
https://the-ecu-pro.com/garage/merce...SAAEgLiXfD_BwE
Last edited by MBNUT1; Jun 8, 2023 at 01:14 PM.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: WWW.BENZNINJA.COM
WWW.BENZNINJA.COM
...
Nice to see that our happy members help the community so well
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...al-review.html
Only users know why BenzNinja is 100% 5 stars rated since ever
Nice to see that our happy members help the community so well
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...al-review.html
Only users know why BenzNinja is 100% 5 stars rated since ever
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 41
Likes: 4
From: Long Island NY
E550
I am trying to help a friend repair his daughters E350, 2013, M276. So far, replaced both Cam intake cam adjusters, removed all 4 camshafts and found 3 of 4 cam sensor wheels had moved on the camshaft. With the cam out I was able to move the wheel back into sync with the camshaft, there is a small faint line showing where each needs to be. With them in sync I decided to lock them so they can't move any more. The lip of the sensor wheel is about 1/4" wide. On each cam I drilled a small maybe 1/16" hole in each sensor wheel just deep enough to be touching the camshaft. The holes were barely deeper than the sensor wheel. Now I tack welded all 4 cams. Just a spot weld in the hole I drilled so there is a bump on the cam. The wheel can't turn on the cam without breaking this small weld. The Cam adjuster has plenty of clearance so I did not need to spend time cleaning and sanding the weld down for clearance. Computer now shows all 4 cams are properly in sync. ( I really wish I had welded the cams on my car when I had to install one new Cam Adjuster a couple months ago ) Both Tensioners were replaced along with the 2 added oil drain back valves. New Spark Plugs installed.
On start up all seemed good but #1 spark plug showing random misfires? I am thinking, Oh Crap, I damaged a valve installing the tensioners? Did a leak-down test, all cylinders are sealed up very well, less than 2% leak-down.
Plugs were new, pulled the #1 and #2 coils and spark plugs. #1 had certainly been misfiring, color was off, not fully fouled out but not clean like a new plug should be? Swapped the plugs and coils and fired it up again. Same Exact issue with #1 cylinder?
Scan Tool is showing #1 Injector voltages are off. I get to see two voltages there is a high and low. The High on #1 is around 176 volts, the other 5 cylinders range about 15 points lower than this around 160-165 normally. The low reading called electric charge of fuel injectors on my scan tool, #1 reads at .76-.82 while the other 5 cylinders read .58-.65?
My Scan tool also shows another check called: Smooth Operation of Cylinder and lists each #1-#6 to compare, it shows a Value in a number but does not say what it is measuring. For Comparison it shows #1 at idle is at 2.87 while the other 5 cylinders range between -.011 and +.88 so #1 is way off. I think it is showing the amount of fuel it is trying to inject or the injection time compared to a set norm in the system.
I replaced the injector, exact same OEM part number. Same Problem after injector change. I did install new Teflon Seals on the injectors. I double and triple checked the intake gaskets to make sure I don't have an intake gasket leak. I traced the wires back as far as I could in the harness looking for any possible shorts or pinched wires causing this. I have not found any issues yet, I did use my Multi tester tool and checked for continuity in the wires from the plug connector a few inches back into the harness and saw no issues.
My old simple scan tool does a quick check for LTFT and STFT, the bank 1 long term fuel trims are running +18 so the computer thinks it needs much more fuel on bank one. Bank 2 reading is showing -3.5 so Bank 2 is normal. My O2 sensors seem to be working and reporting normal combustion with identical temperatures on both sides and near identical reads before and after both cats. I expected them to be way off matching the Bank one Fuel issue?
On a road test if I drive it normally, no hard accelerations it runs like a top. I have run it up some pretty steep hills at 72 MPH, power is a little off compared to my 2012 E350 but it has 160,000 miles and my car is half of that. All was good till I pushed it harder and let it rev up past 5,000 RPM, misfires started and it throws the engine into limp mode and shuts Cyl #1 off till I shut off the engine and clear the misfire code. Then it runs good again.
Just for a test I removed #1 and #2 Coils and plugs again, swapped them and reinstalled. #1 is misfiring more than before? I have tried to move the coils around to see if the misfire followed the parts but the problem stays with #1.
OK, I wrote a book on this but I think you can feel my pain. My buddy's daughter wants her car back, I want it gone but can't give it back with this problem ongoing. It is something unique but why only in #1.
A rock solid leak down normally states Rings, Valves are all perfect? I looked at the valves for build up on the intakes and they are actually pretty clean.
I am hoping someone faced a similar issue and has a fix I can try. If nothing else I hope you enjoyed the read. Thanks Mark
PS: Why am I working on his car? I am retired and have time, she loved the looks, paint and stereo and bought it, it would not pass smog so he called for help so she can get it registered and drive it. Most of the trunk is a boom box. Not my cup of tea but she likes it.
On start up all seemed good but #1 spark plug showing random misfires? I am thinking, Oh Crap, I damaged a valve installing the tensioners? Did a leak-down test, all cylinders are sealed up very well, less than 2% leak-down.
Plugs were new, pulled the #1 and #2 coils and spark plugs. #1 had certainly been misfiring, color was off, not fully fouled out but not clean like a new plug should be? Swapped the plugs and coils and fired it up again. Same Exact issue with #1 cylinder?
Scan Tool is showing #1 Injector voltages are off. I get to see two voltages there is a high and low. The High on #1 is around 176 volts, the other 5 cylinders range about 15 points lower than this around 160-165 normally. The low reading called electric charge of fuel injectors on my scan tool, #1 reads at .76-.82 while the other 5 cylinders read .58-.65?
My Scan tool also shows another check called: Smooth Operation of Cylinder and lists each #1-#6 to compare, it shows a Value in a number but does not say what it is measuring. For Comparison it shows #1 at idle is at 2.87 while the other 5 cylinders range between -.011 and +.88 so #1 is way off. I think it is showing the amount of fuel it is trying to inject or the injection time compared to a set norm in the system.
I replaced the injector, exact same OEM part number. Same Problem after injector change. I did install new Teflon Seals on the injectors. I double and triple checked the intake gaskets to make sure I don't have an intake gasket leak. I traced the wires back as far as I could in the harness looking for any possible shorts or pinched wires causing this. I have not found any issues yet, I did use my Multi tester tool and checked for continuity in the wires from the plug connector a few inches back into the harness and saw no issues.
My old simple scan tool does a quick check for LTFT and STFT, the bank 1 long term fuel trims are running +18 so the computer thinks it needs much more fuel on bank one. Bank 2 reading is showing -3.5 so Bank 2 is normal. My O2 sensors seem to be working and reporting normal combustion with identical temperatures on both sides and near identical reads before and after both cats. I expected them to be way off matching the Bank one Fuel issue?
On a road test if I drive it normally, no hard accelerations it runs like a top. I have run it up some pretty steep hills at 72 MPH, power is a little off compared to my 2012 E350 but it has 160,000 miles and my car is half of that. All was good till I pushed it harder and let it rev up past 5,000 RPM, misfires started and it throws the engine into limp mode and shuts Cyl #1 off till I shut off the engine and clear the misfire code. Then it runs good again.
Just for a test I removed #1 and #2 Coils and plugs again, swapped them and reinstalled. #1 is misfiring more than before? I have tried to move the coils around to see if the misfire followed the parts but the problem stays with #1.
OK, I wrote a book on this but I think you can feel my pain. My buddy's daughter wants her car back, I want it gone but can't give it back with this problem ongoing. It is something unique but why only in #1.
A rock solid leak down normally states Rings, Valves are all perfect? I looked at the valves for build up on the intakes and they are actually pretty clean.
I am hoping someone faced a similar issue and has a fix I can try. If nothing else I hope you enjoyed the read. Thanks Mark
PS: Why am I working on his car? I am retired and have time, she loved the looks, paint and stereo and bought it, it would not pass smog so he called for help so she can get it registered and drive it. Most of the trunk is a boom box. Not my cup of tea but she likes it.
The young AMG mechanic, freshly back from Germany, told me of all things to check the grounds. I cleaned up the two grounds, one on each valve cover and believe it or not,, no misfires.. An easy thing to try.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 2,038
From: US
2008 E350, 2012 ML350, 2014 E350, 2015 ML350
On my 2008 E550 I couldn't get my CEL off. It kept telling me I have a misfire. I took it to the dealer and they found nothing.
The young AMG mechanic, freshly back from Germany, told me of all things to check the grounds. I cleaned up the two grounds, one on each valve cover and believe it or not,, no misfires.. An easy thing to try.
The young AMG mechanic, freshly back from Germany, told me of all things to check the grounds. I cleaned up the two grounds, one on each valve cover and believe it or not,, no misfires.. An easy thing to try.
great to know.. many of these gremlins are just loose grounds, loose pins in the modules, green crusties (as some people call the rust) at connectors or boards.Do you recall exactly where both grounds are? Front of the engine, back of the engine, under the intake? Would love to see them first.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6,545
Likes: 6,495
From: Jakarta-Indonesia
2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
The scan tool has saved my bacon many times, but it is no cheap information, $1,300 up front, and then $400 per year to keep it updated. I wish I could pass on the updates and use it but if you don't update it they have programing that shuts it down for you. I love the tool and the function but I bought it, I own it, it should continue to work if I choose no more updates. It does 2 way communication so it allowed me to trace a hard to find ABS issue a while back, Tire pressure monitors, Transmission programming, Seat and window motor checks. It is good, not sure how the others compare, AUTEL is mentioned a lot. It takes a while to learn to use the information and every car uses it's own descriptions and information is under unique file names so for each car you have to learn more. It does not offer electrical diagrams, just gives information about the systems. It is really good for studying O2 sensors and CATS to see if they are working properly. On this M276 your help and others let me trace many things I did not have the ability to do. I know issues were found and fixed but the dang car still will not run right. Getting closer. I almost purchased a Wave Form scanner yesterday, only thing stopping me was the learning curve, another tool I know nothing about.
I am still shopping for a suitable Launch X431 middle level like yours, because I have middle level Autel MS906BT already.
I find Launch experience from the el-cheapo baby size Creader Elite For Benz Only, is amazing for its price, but it has its quirks.
For programming/coding matters like ECM or Tranny module, I know mid to high level 3rd party scanners will hook us up to their own servers, hence that US$400 annual update fee you speak of , otherwise no access,
meaning we can't do the work and the high price paid for the unit is lost. That is why I do not want high level scanner as their price is not only hardware expensive but it is a pain to keep paying annual fee that high for a DIY guy
who is doing our own car.
For this eventuality of modules programming ( touch wood ) with latest and proper firmware, I bought the lifetime membership with Benz-Ninja for such service and
separately bought the recommended C4 clone which is so fast on its update rate, when you want to see 4 data channels for camshaft actuator and sensors at 7.5 Hz, this is the best.
Laptop for the C4 clone we buy on our own of course, because I like new and fast laptop.
Benz-Ninja lifetime service is not expensive and is very low cost even if it has 10 years limit, but good thing it is lifetime. I hope Benz-Ninja stay fit for the next 15 years
.As our car is aging, what we would be in trouble with at the end is the electronics/computers and its software, things like coding + programming yada yada,...whatever MB IT division call it... its something so alien
to most of us mechanical and electrical guy. I can't DIY IT related stuff and I fear the module get bricked, hence I best use Benz-Ninja service. I have to admit where is my weakest point and where a professional help
is needed.
If we watched enough youtube videos by qualified techy , in the end factory grade scanner always win because 3rd party scanner has to "reverse engineer" the software, sometimes they got it wrong.
So a Xentry is a must have for me and now I am covered by Benz-Ninja, I am comfortable. Benz-Ninja been very helpful, he set up my laptop ( me IT dummy ) to work flawless with the Xentry C4 clone.
I do ask Benz-Ninja a lot of questions and often and replies are fast within hours and very informative.
Will I still buy a mid level Launch ? Hell yeah.....
. I like collecting 3rd party scanners and I have not yet own a mid-level Launch.But I do not require model with complex programming/coding capability which needs to be connected to their servers and I get "taxed" off every year $$
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 186
Likes: 143
E350 Sport
I have my personal car a E350 2012 model year with the same set up. It can’t be used because the ECM is programmed to the car VIN and won’t work in any other car.
I purchased a ECM yesterday, spent many hours taking both ECM’s apart and programmed the new ECM with the Old ECM information, basically cloned it for use in this E350. Got it done and installed. Very sad to report no change or not much change. Far less misfires but, they are still there. What was found is less misfires when the harness is moved around so on the driver side of this car there must be some loose wires?
More investigation needed but CRAP. Time and money wasted. Prior to this I never lifted the ECM out of the mount and moved the entire harness around. I know, I am using ECM rather than PCM today, working to program the computer they referred to it as the ECM, my scan tool still calls it the PCM. Computer. Good news it was successfully programmed to work in this VIN car, key works, engine starts. Back to checking wires.
Crap, I truly hate electrical issues and I am very slow at that type work. One more note, at every turn on this job I see some wrench has been there before me so the previous owner that sold this car to my buddy’s daughter had been chasing this issue for some time and expense.
I purchased a ECM yesterday, spent many hours taking both ECM’s apart and programmed the new ECM with the Old ECM information, basically cloned it for use in this E350. Got it done and installed. Very sad to report no change or not much change. Far less misfires but, they are still there. What was found is less misfires when the harness is moved around so on the driver side of this car there must be some loose wires?
More investigation needed but CRAP. Time and money wasted. Prior to this I never lifted the ECM out of the mount and moved the entire harness around. I know, I am using ECM rather than PCM today, working to program the computer they referred to it as the ECM, my scan tool still calls it the PCM. Computer. Good news it was successfully programmed to work in this VIN car, key works, engine starts. Back to checking wires.
Crap, I truly hate electrical issues and I am very slow at that type work. One more note, at every turn on this job I see some wrench has been there before me so the previous owner that sold this car to my buddy’s daughter had been chasing this issue for some time and expense.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 186
Likes: 143
E350 Sport
I am still not able to open the WIS, I have 2 systems and can’t open either. Any chance someone can share the Wire diagrams from the WIS for the grounds and powers that feed the driver or left side of this car? This is US spec so driver side is on the left. In engine Speak, left and right assumes you are standing at the rear of the engine at the flywheel looking forward.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 14,644
Likes: 4,551
From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Have you considered purchasing a new engine harness? They are available because it is one of the field repair items related to “oil in harness” situation.
Dealer, FCP or eBay are sourcing avenues.
Dealer, FCP or eBay are sourcing avenues.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6,545
Likes: 6,495
From: Jakarta-Indonesia
2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
At post #8, Juanmor has given you the LEFT and RIGHT side engine bay ground schematic.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post8781789
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post8781789
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 186
Likes: 143
E350 Sport
At post #8, Juanmor has given you the LEFT and RIGHT side engine bay ground schematic.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post8781789
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post8781789
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,964
Likes: 1,340
From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
I have my personal car a E350 2012 model year with the same set up. It can’t be used because the ECM is programmed to the car VIN and won’t work in any other car.
I purchased a ECM yesterday, spent many hours taking both ECM’s apart and programmed the new ECM with the Old ECM information, basically cloned it for use in this E350. Got it done and installed. Very sad to report no change or not much change. Far less misfires but, they are still there. What was found is less misfires when the harness is moved around so on the driver side of this car there must be some loose wires?
More investigation needed but CRAP. Time and money wasted. Prior to this I never lifted the ECM out of the mount and moved the entire harness around. I know, I am using ECM rather than PCM today, working to program the computer they referred to it as the ECM, my scan tool still calls it the PCM. Computer. Good news it was successfully programmed to work in this VIN car, key works, engine starts. Back to checking wires.
Crap, I truly hate electrical issues and I am very slow at that type work. One more note, at every turn on this job I see some wrench has been there before me so the previous owner that sold this car to my buddy’s daughter had been chasing this issue for some time and expense.
I purchased a ECM yesterday, spent many hours taking both ECM’s apart and programmed the new ECM with the Old ECM information, basically cloned it for use in this E350. Got it done and installed. Very sad to report no change or not much change. Far less misfires but, they are still there. What was found is less misfires when the harness is moved around so on the driver side of this car there must be some loose wires?
More investigation needed but CRAP. Time and money wasted. Prior to this I never lifted the ECM out of the mount and moved the entire harness around. I know, I am using ECM rather than PCM today, working to program the computer they referred to it as the ECM, my scan tool still calls it the PCM. Computer. Good news it was successfully programmed to work in this VIN car, key works, engine starts. Back to checking wires.
Crap, I truly hate electrical issues and I am very slow at that type work. One more note, at every turn on this job I see some wrench has been there before me so the previous owner that sold this car to my buddy’s daughter had been chasing this issue for some time and expense.
I am still shopping for a suitable Launch X431 middle level like yours, because I have middle level Autel MS906BT already.
I find Launch experience from the el-cheapo baby size Creader Elite For Benz Only, is amazing for its price, but it has its quirks.
For programming/coding matters like ECM or Tranny module, I know mid to high level 3rd party scanners will hook us up to their own servers, hence that US$400 annual update fee you speak of , otherwise no access,
meaning we can't do the work and the high price paid for the unit is lost. That is why I do not want high level scanner as their price is not only hardware expensive but it is a pain to keep paying annual fee that high for a DIY guy
who is doing our own car.
For this eventuality of modules programming ( touch wood ) with latest and proper firmware, I bought the lifetime membership with Benz-Ninja for such service and
separately bought the recommended C4 clone which is so fast on its update rate, when you want to see 4 data channels for camshaft actuator and sensors at 7.5 Hz, this is the best.
Laptop for the C4 clone we buy on our own of course, because I like new and fast laptop.
Benz-Ninja lifetime service is not expensive and is very low cost even if it has 10 years limit, but good thing it is lifetime. I hope Benz-Ninja stay fit for the next 15 years.
As our car is aging, what we would be in trouble with at the end is the electronics/computers and its software, things like coding + programming yada yada,...whatever MB IT division call it... its something so alien
to most of us mechanical and electrical guy. I can't DIY IT related stuff and I fear the module get bricked, hence I best use Benz-Ninja service. I have to admit where is my weakest point and where a professional help
is needed.
If we watched enough youtube videos by qualified techy , in the end factory grade scanner always win because 3rd party scanner has to "reverse engineer" the software, sometimes they got it wrong.
So a Xentry is a must have for me and now I am covered by Benz-Ninja, I am comfortable. Benz-Ninja been very helpful, he set up my laptop ( me IT dummy ) to work flawless with the Xentry C4 clone.
I do ask Benz-Ninja a lot of questions and often and replies are fast within hours and very informative.
Will I still buy a mid level Launch ? Hell yeah...... I like collecting 3rd party scanners and I have not yet own a mid-level Launch.
But I do not require model with complex programming/coding capability which needs to be connected to their servers and I get "taxed" off every year $$
I find Launch experience from the el-cheapo baby size Creader Elite For Benz Only, is amazing for its price, but it has its quirks.
For programming/coding matters like ECM or Tranny module, I know mid to high level 3rd party scanners will hook us up to their own servers, hence that US$400 annual update fee you speak of , otherwise no access,
meaning we can't do the work and the high price paid for the unit is lost. That is why I do not want high level scanner as their price is not only hardware expensive but it is a pain to keep paying annual fee that high for a DIY guy
who is doing our own car.
For this eventuality of modules programming ( touch wood ) with latest and proper firmware, I bought the lifetime membership with Benz-Ninja for such service and
separately bought the recommended C4 clone which is so fast on its update rate, when you want to see 4 data channels for camshaft actuator and sensors at 7.5 Hz, this is the best.
Laptop for the C4 clone we buy on our own of course, because I like new and fast laptop.
Benz-Ninja lifetime service is not expensive and is very low cost even if it has 10 years limit, but good thing it is lifetime. I hope Benz-Ninja stay fit for the next 15 years
.As our car is aging, what we would be in trouble with at the end is the electronics/computers and its software, things like coding + programming yada yada,...whatever MB IT division call it... its something so alien
to most of us mechanical and electrical guy. I can't DIY IT related stuff and I fear the module get bricked, hence I best use Benz-Ninja service. I have to admit where is my weakest point and where a professional help
is needed.
If we watched enough youtube videos by qualified techy , in the end factory grade scanner always win because 3rd party scanner has to "reverse engineer" the software, sometimes they got it wrong.
So a Xentry is a must have for me and now I am covered by Benz-Ninja, I am comfortable. Benz-Ninja been very helpful, he set up my laptop ( me IT dummy ) to work flawless with the Xentry C4 clone.
I do ask Benz-Ninja a lot of questions and often and replies are fast within hours and very informative.
Will I still buy a mid level Launch ? Hell yeah.....
. I like collecting 3rd party scanners and I have not yet own a mid-level Launch.But I do not require model with complex programming/coding capability which needs to be connected to their servers and I get "taxed" off every year $$
