Amsoil for your vehicle!
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Joined: Jun 2022
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From: WA State, USA
2014 Cummins, 2014 E250 Bluetec
OM642 up to 2016 is the SAME. 228.51, 229.51, 229.52.
OM642 2017 and later 229.52
Not to beat this guy up any more but the ATF isn't on the current MB-approved list either. Coincidentally I ordered a transmission service kit from FCP last night and was debating between Pentosin and Liqui Moly and went with the former. I didn't find Liqui Moly on the approved list either.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 846
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From: San Jose, CA
11 E550, 16 AMG GTS, 13 S550
I'm not here to tell you something is what it isn't, or to slap certs that weren't earned on stuff. The certs are there where they should be for the things that will work for you, except the ATF, which isn't certed for anything by the auto manufacturer generally. I am here and I've been a participating member for some time doing the best I can with the knowledge I have to help.
I'll continue to support MBWorld since I'm indebted to knowledge of the community here. I'm sure we can make some connections.
I'll continue to support MBWorld since I'm indebted to knowledge of the community here. I'm sure we can make some connections.
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Alpha European Autotech
Purchase Amsoil at 25% off from me
Chris Tran, Retired Alpha European Autotech Owner
Amsoil Independent Dealer #7236674
Alpha European Autotech
Purchase Amsoil at 25% off from me
Chris Tran, Retired Alpha European Autotech Owner
Amsoil Independent Dealer #7236674
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
You need to go back and read what is the link you posted before. The MB site specifically says OM651 allowable oil IS 228.51, 229.51, and 229.52 (ALL YEARS). No questions per MB. My car was filled with 229.51 from new till I got it at 76k miles by the dealers it was serviced at.
OM642 up to 2016 is the SAME. 228.51, 229.51, 229.52.
OM642 2017 and later 229.52
,,,,,.
OM642 up to 2016 is the SAME. 228.51, 229.51, 229.52.
OM642 2017 and later 229.52
,,,,,.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 739
Likes: 328
From: WA State, USA
2014 Cummins, 2014 E250 Bluetec
Will .51 oil brick your pre 2017 642? Maybe. Does MB authorize its use per current oil recommendations? Yes. Sucks that they wont admit to reason for the 642 failures (assuming thats why), can garuntee many MB dealers are still using the recommended oils in the engines depending on what they have in bulk stock.
The 642 has other issues that combine to cause there problems. Not sure exactly what it is maybe too much leak by piston rings, excessive fuel added for DPF burnoff, very poor crankcase vent system...... no idea. The 651 engines dont have that issue using the .51 oils for there entire lives with basically same emissions system. Would be nice if MB would figure it out but they arent going to.
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Joined: Jun 2024
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S63amg
Correct I'm not here to argue with any of that, same with their multi-spec ATF's that I love so much (I'm a full service shop that also serves this to AMG/Mercedes customers all day). You gotta determine what works for you and this stuff works pretty well. Technically most of us aren't even using MB approved FUEL for what it's worth. The 5W40 FS is THE oil I recommend for 90% of us, I run the correct grade for the AMG GT-S with superb results.
The 229.5 spec is really weird in that even Liquimoly doesn't have certification for several viscosity grades and yet nobody thinks twice about using them. 229.51 is a more strict spec for the diesels and whatnot that run 20k+ oil change intervals so I think its a low SAPS formula (basically the stuff FROM the additives adds more SAPS which is harder on the emissions equipment). Anything that works on 229.51 should work with 229.5.
European oils are tricky, but in general it has to have below a certain threshold of SAPS, a TBN of 8-ish and low volatility to successfully run these high performance vehicles to their 10k oil change interval recommended by the factory without cumulative degradation in cleanliness and performance. 229.51 and 229.51 require mid and low SAPS, not necessarily better protection but the SAPS have to be even more under control to not kill your catalytic converter and sensors as the oil is going into the 20-30k range as recommended by the factory. Even more confusing is that its backwards compatible with 229.5 usually which causes people to overspend on mid and low SAPS oils for the same interval.
The 229.5 spec is really weird in that even Liquimoly doesn't have certification for several viscosity grades and yet nobody thinks twice about using them. 229.51 is a more strict spec for the diesels and whatnot that run 20k+ oil change intervals so I think its a low SAPS formula (basically the stuff FROM the additives adds more SAPS which is harder on the emissions equipment). Anything that works on 229.51 should work with 229.5.
European oils are tricky, but in general it has to have below a certain threshold of SAPS, a TBN of 8-ish and low volatility to successfully run these high performance vehicles to their 10k oil change interval recommended by the factory without cumulative degradation in cleanliness and performance. 229.51 and 229.51 require mid and low SAPS, not necessarily better protection but the SAPS have to be even more under control to not kill your catalytic converter and sensors as the oil is going into the 20-30k range as recommended by the factory. Even more confusing is that its backwards compatible with 229.5 usually which causes people to overspend on mid and low SAPS oils for the same interval.
Currently driving an 2018 S63amg coupe facelifted 4.0 M177 engine, can I use amsoil signature series 0w40 for my car? SS was their best oil, not the european oils.
Thanks.
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Joined: May 2012
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From: Pepper Pike Ohio
24 GLS580 '23 E450 4matic 12 E350 4Matic
There is a simple theory in life that has guided me for conversations such as this. It is a simple equation. And not “woke”.
A million rednecks can’t be wrong….
and knowing some of you are aware that I completely flushed my transmission at 72k miles to put their ATF in about a week or so ago, ya’ll can figure out why I did it… (ps, it’s running great so far).
I learned this valuable lesson over 25 years ago, when my younger self was debatin’ which brand of 6x9 speakers to get for my snazzy Sentra. No lie. This happened.
Debating between the Alpine’s and the Pioneers.
“dude, a million rednecks can’t be wrong. Get the Pioneers.”
And he was right, for 6 more years.
A million rednecks can’t be wrong….
and knowing some of you are aware that I completely flushed my transmission at 72k miles to put their ATF in about a week or so ago, ya’ll can figure out why I did it… (ps, it’s running great so far).
I learned this valuable lesson over 25 years ago, when my younger self was debatin’ which brand of 6x9 speakers to get for my snazzy Sentra. No lie. This happened.
Debating between the Alpine’s and the Pioneers.
“dude, a million rednecks can’t be wrong. Get the Pioneers.”
And he was right, for 6 more years.
Thread Starter
SPONSOR
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 846
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From: San Jose, CA
11 E550, 16 AMG GTS, 13 S550
European oils are also made with environmental concerns because I've been told there is special emissions equipment on our cars (not just the catalytic converter) so the blend of SAPS has to be dialed in to work with these without clogging air/oil separators and the various vents.
This would be the correct oil to use.
https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-5w-4...fm/?zo=7236674
SS has more add-pack in it but the balance would be off and I wouldn't be able to guarantee everything is fine and dandy and I just wouldn't do science experiments on a very expensive AMG against Amsoil and Mercedes' recommendation simultaneously.
__________________
Alpha European Autotech
Purchase Amsoil at 25% off from me
Chris Tran, Retired Alpha European Autotech Owner
Amsoil Independent Dealer #7236674
Alpha European Autotech
Purchase Amsoil at 25% off from me
Chris Tran, Retired Alpha European Autotech Owner
Amsoil Independent Dealer #7236674
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Charlotte, NC
Had: 1987 300TD, Had: 2004 C230 Sport Sedan, Have: 2014 E350 Sport, Have: 2019 S450
Being turbocharged and direct injected, I would definitely look into LSPI (low speed pre ignition) in turbo DI engines, and the effect oil composition plays in it.
Oils high in Ca have been linked to LSPI and bore scoring/piston damage. API SP specification has lower Ca to avoid this problem.
Lots of info on the web. Information is power.
Oils high in Ca have been linked to LSPI and bore scoring/piston damage. API SP specification has lower Ca to avoid this problem.
Lots of info on the web. Information is power.
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Joined: Jun 2017
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2020 GLS450 (wife) / 2024 Ford Bronco (mine) / 2014 VW Tiquan (son)
My W212 turned into this about 6 weeks ago, and when it hits about 5k miles, I'll likely be having the Ford trans fluid flushed out and replaced with Amsoil as well, along with the differentials and transfer case. Back in 2006 I had bought my wife a new Mazda 3 GT sedan (loved that little thing). It was a Volvo frame, Ford motor and automatic transmission, and Mazda body and interior. Did the same thing to that transmission but with Mobile 1 ATF instead (didn't know about Amsoil back then). Incredible difference that lasted for 50k miles.
Last edited by nc211; Jul 4, 2024 at 12:11 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2024
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S63amg
229.5 oils are what you should use. They have a specific chemical composition for the emissions requirements and extended drain intervals of European vehicles. SS would probably work but Euro It's what Amsoil recommends. The lubrication properties of the SS are excellent, I just wouldn't go against what Amsoil AND Mercedes tell us to use. Amsoil drops in and out of 229.5 approvals from the MB side because they're always fiddling with their blends all the time, but they're good to go.
European oils are also made with environmental concerns because I've been told there is special emissions equipment on our cars (not just the catalytic converter) so the blend of SAPS has to be dialed in to work with these without clogging air/oil separators and the various vents.
This would be the correct oil to use.
https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-5w-4...fm/?zo=7236674
SS has more add-pack in it but the balance would be off and I wouldn't be able to guarantee everything is fine and dandy and I just wouldn't do science experiments on a very expensive AMG against Amsoil and Mercedes' recommendation simultaneously.
European oils are also made with environmental concerns because I've been told there is special emissions equipment on our cars (not just the catalytic converter) so the blend of SAPS has to be dialed in to work with these without clogging air/oil separators and the various vents.
This would be the correct oil to use.
https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-5w-4...fm/?zo=7236674
SS has more add-pack in it but the balance would be off and I wouldn't be able to guarantee everything is fine and dandy and I just wouldn't do science experiments on a very expensive AMG against Amsoil and Mercedes' recommendation simultaneously.
Thanks for replying, lets keep this an open discussion since I already went out of warranty. The problem with European oil is thar they consist zero Moly and boron which is a little cringe when you think about it and all of a sudden on the sideline you see LM having Ceratec as an additive which is full of Moly.
My assumption is that the SS would work well because of its Higher HTHS rating and also High Saps which is well within the limits. It wont fault the catalytic converter. I also think they dont bother to get an MB approval for the oil because they already have Euro oil.
