Not great oil analysis...
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Joined: Mar 2024
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From: Chicago
19 GLA45, 86 560SL, former: 14 E550 4Matic, 09 E350 4Matic, 83 240D manual, 78 450SLC, 81 500SLC
Not great oil analysis...
I finally got the OA back from the oil I which was in the E550 when I got it. Noteworthy:
One caveat is that I have no idea how many miles/years were on the oil before I got the car, nor what oil it was. Even still, I don't expect my car to tell me anything twice, even if most of the time it's happy to do so. Another caveat is that I re-use various containers and tubing to do my oil change. I tried like hell to clean them fully but it's possible there was some cross-contamination from another oil source or from something I was cleaning with.
Next oil change I will do traditionally through the drain plug with fresh equipment.
These potential oil:coolant mixing areas are (along with associated jobs):
- Aluminum: 32ppm
- Potassium: 35ppm
- Water: 0%
One caveat is that I have no idea how many miles/years were on the oil before I got the car, nor what oil it was. Even still, I don't expect my car to tell me anything twice, even if most of the time it's happy to do so. Another caveat is that I re-use various containers and tubing to do my oil change. I tried like hell to clean them fully but it's possible there was some cross-contamination from another oil source or from something I was cleaning with.
Next oil change I will do traditionally through the drain plug with fresh equipment.
These potential oil:coolant mixing areas are (along with associated jobs):
- The oil cooler gasket
- The crossover pipe gasket inside the main timing cover
- The radiator? (is this only for the similar problem with transmission fluid and coolant mixing? Probably should do it at the same time anyway...)
- Do all the turbo cooler lines at the same time
- Do the water pump, while I'm in there?
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Joined: May 2018
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From: Jakarta-Indonesia
2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Oil Analysis I believe need at least twice or more to see the pattern, but it will be more for metal wear.
But if potassium is there and if that indicated coolant , damn....
https://www.machinerylubrication.com...-potassium-oil
These potential oil:coolant mixing areas are (along with associated jobs):
Wish you solve your issue fast.
But if potassium is there and if that indicated coolant , damn....
https://www.machinerylubrication.com...-potassium-oil
These potential oil:coolant mixing areas are (along with associated jobs):
- The oil cooler gasket <<< YES YES
- The crossover pipe gasket inside the main timing cover <<< YES , this is a BIG JOB
- The radiator? (is this only for the similar problem with transmission fluid and coolant mixing? Probably should do it at the same time anyway...)
- Check your radiator, it could be a stand alone radiator for coolant only like mine. Easy to see, where does the tranny oil hoses goes to ?.
- Usually if shared with radiator, it will be on the right side of the radiator with 2 small tranny hoses.
- Radiator is the last layer if from bumper to engine bay and the first layer if engine bay to bumper. Easy to inspect all hoses to it.
- Do all the turbo cooler lines at the same time << M278 is weak on its cooler turbo lines, plastic mix with aluminum and the plastic always go first.
- Do the water pump, while I'm in there? Good idea
Wish you solve your issue fast.
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Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 618
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From: Chicago
19 GLA45, 86 560SL, former: 14 E550 4Matic, 09 E350 4Matic, 83 240D manual, 78 450SLC, 81 500SLC
Thanks man!
Blackstone wasn't sure the Potassium was from coolant. They listed some potential other sources, but I know the car better than they and I think the clock is ticking.
I forgot to mention that of course I will get the guides, tensioners, and the two cam adjuster magnets that I haven't been able to reach yet. And of course the timing chain itself... The job is so big that it seems like it would be smaller to remove the whole front fascia and frame cross member to just get full access to the front of the engine. No sense in trying to do a job that big with 6" of clearance. It's one thing to try that kind of stuff on almost any other car, but the size of the engine with turbos and the number of tubes and pipes on this thing....
This means I need to get the Porsche on the road so I have a car to drive for a week or so while I grind through this...
Blackstone wasn't sure the Potassium was from coolant. They listed some potential other sources, but I know the car better than they and I think the clock is ticking.
I forgot to mention that of course I will get the guides, tensioners, and the two cam adjuster magnets that I haven't been able to reach yet. And of course the timing chain itself... The job is so big that it seems like it would be smaller to remove the whole front fascia and frame cross member to just get full access to the front of the engine. No sense in trying to do a job that big with 6" of clearance. It's one thing to try that kind of stuff on almost any other car, but the size of the engine with turbos and the number of tubes and pipes on this thing....
This means I need to get the Porsche on the road so I have a car to drive for a week or so while I grind through this...
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Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 618
Likes: 241
From: Chicago
19 GLA45, 86 560SL, former: 14 E550 4Matic, 09 E350 4Matic, 83 240D manual, 78 450SLC, 81 500SLC
I got another oil analysis back after about 6k miles with the following results:
-Aluminum went from 32 to 19ppm
-Molybdenum went from 29 to 66
-Potassium went from 35 to 9
Everything else was about the same including water at 0.0%
Potassium went down a lot, but the oil was probably in service for half the number of miles as the last oil. That may explain why molybdenum is about twice as high and aluminum about half as high.
Some time during the last oil cycle I had the radiator and all the front hoses changed. If I had any potential leaks in the radiator system (not sure if my car has these danger areas), they got fixed mid-cycle. I verified that my cooling system doesn't leak down by pressurizing it to 15psi or so and watching the needle for a few minutes. I think I'm good for now, but my analysis numbers are still a bit odd...
-Aluminum went from 32 to 19ppm
-Molybdenum went from 29 to 66
-Potassium went from 35 to 9
Everything else was about the same including water at 0.0%
Potassium went down a lot, but the oil was probably in service for half the number of miles as the last oil. That may explain why molybdenum is about twice as high and aluminum about half as high.
Some time during the last oil cycle I had the radiator and all the front hoses changed. If I had any potential leaks in the radiator system (not sure if my car has these danger areas), they got fixed mid-cycle. I verified that my cooling system doesn't leak down by pressurizing it to 15psi or so and watching the needle for a few minutes. I think I'm good for now, but my analysis numbers are still a bit odd...
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2008 E350, 2012 ML350, 2014 E350, 2015 ML350
Supposedly the problem below was corrected after production date 12/2013. See "more section" on the video. I doubt it was specifically for the GL.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
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From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
NORMAL TERMINAL DAMAGE....
Master tech goes on to point:
Once engine's stopped, Bank2 head coolant directly behind overcooks the seal with coolant way above operating 200F temp. (300+?).
ECO, pump solenoid and low viscosity are all contributors.
Overall it's simple to experimentally prevent oiling issues before its too late.
- scored cylinders
- piter camshafts
- mayo mix killing crank bearings
- VVT gears lock pins
- ....
Once engine's stopped, Bank2 head coolant directly behind overcooks the seal with coolant way above operating 200F temp. (300+?).
ECO, pump solenoid and low viscosity are all contributors.
Overall it's simple to experimentally prevent oiling issues before its too late.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Nov 25, 2024 at 02:16 AM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 618
Likes: 241
From: Chicago
19 GLA45, 86 560SL, former: 14 E550 4Matic, 09 E350 4Matic, 83 240D manual, 78 450SLC, 81 500SLC
OPR solenoid has been disabled, though I need a more permanent solution for blanking the connectors. I have ECO off 100% of the time while driving.
My "digital" compression tests were really good so I think I somehow avoided severe bore score, but I won't know until I get a scope in the cylinders soon. Maybe they're all equally very scored.
(seems unlikely).
I do have some sparkle in my oil filter, perhaps from cam adjusting mechanisms starting to shed bits...?
My "digital" compression tests were really good so I think I somehow avoided severe bore score, but I won't know until I get a scope in the cylinders soon. Maybe they're all equally very scored.
(seems unlikely).I do have some sparkle in my oil filter, perhaps from cam adjusting mechanisms starting to shed bits...?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,923
Likes: 6,776
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
SPARKLES MUST GO ... soon!
OPR solenoid has been disabled, though I need a more permanent solution for blanking the connectors. I have ECO off 100% of the time while driving.
My "digital" compression tests were really good so I think I somehow avoided severe bore score, but I won't know until I get a scope in the cylinders soon. Maybe they're all equally very scored. (seems unlikely).
I do have some sparkle in my oil filter, perhaps from cam adjusting mechanisms starting to shed bits...?
My "digital" compression tests were really good so I think I somehow avoided severe bore score, but I won't know until I get a scope in the cylinders soon. Maybe they're all equally very scored.
(seems unlikely).I do have some sparkle in my oil filter, perhaps from cam adjusting mechanisms starting to shed bits...?
I would concentrate on cleaning the sparkles out of both heads vs. only cleaning oily valves.
Metal shavings is what contaminates
- camshaft roller followers (flat!)
- (taping hydraulic lifters)
- HPFP needle bearings roller (lean!)
- filter bypass-valve cup and
- spun crank bearings on the final trip.
> Don't Loose Your Sleep...
I've have steel sparkles on my un-abused 60kMi M276-NA... soft steel from camshaft + VVT.
60KMi BK1 Intake CPS loaded with magnetic contaminants 👏
I am going to add neodemium magnets to my oil filter cap.
This leave behind only non-magnetic magnesium, aluminum and cooper.
Everyone's got sparkles... Small-Medium-Large
This is what we're trying to avoid right there.... lifters/rollers!
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Nov 25, 2024 at 05:23 PM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 618
Likes: 241
From: Chicago
19 GLA45, 86 560SL, former: 14 E550 4Matic, 09 E350 4Matic, 83 240D manual, 78 450SLC, 81 500SLC
I think I'm a little more immune to most having dealt with air-cooled aviation engines a bunch. You never don't see sparkles in the filter when you do an oil change on those engines. Continental even has a service bulletin describing the amounts of sparkle you can have in the filter and it's way more than you would think (something like 1/4-1/2tsp--I don't know why, but they spec'd it in teaspoons...) especially since the oil change interval is only 25-50 tach hours.
Obviously, an air-cooled, low-compression engine designed in the 40s is different from an M278...
Also lucky is that I don't have any crazy valve train noise yet.
Obviously, an air-cooled, low-compression engine designed in the 40s is different from an M278...
Also lucky is that I don't have any crazy valve train noise yet.
