Egonvdv

i was reading some Tesla forums and it's clear that tesla fans have a different approach to cars.
what they talk about most is how little they consume, where/when/how they charge, how fast the car is and all the gadget & updates.
but little about comfort / overall driving experience
(They seem like Apple fans that wait in line for a new product...)

However, i did see several EX- BMW/Audi/MB drivers who absolutely love their Tesla and will "never go back".

True, the new Tesla 3 has significantly improved it seems and most review actually say it's better value compaired to the (older) S.
ALL of the review i saw say it drives superbly..
the only critique i found was : back seat not very spacious and seats too low, therefore giving little leg support
when car is wet water runs in the trunk if you open it. and maybe the finish is not the very best there is.

i guess in the end it's a bit like comparing apples with oranges, and it will always be a trade of when choosing between the 2

But truth be told, I'm pretty fed up with my W213 due to all the (small) problems i had with it, many of which were never solved
(though maybe that will be even worse with a tesla…)

Also since I'm switching in august, i fear i will miss out on the 2020/2021 upgrade which has mbux ...

as to a hybrid; i thought about it, but i don't want to get gas AND charge my car, especially as i would have to install a charging point
at my flat ( level -3 underground carpark), which doesn't seem to be worth the trouble for a hybrid.

i really don't see any electric car within the Mercedes price range that comes close to it in respect of built/comfort ..
tesla seems the be the best option in that respect…?

ua549

The MB EQ 400 with MBUX has OTA updates. An 80% charge takes about 40 minutes. That is far too long for road trips.

rraisley

Agreed. And after all, that is what many of us buy your "luxury" car for.

C280 Sport

The major of people who are buying Tesla are not car people. And the car people who do buy chances are have toys and use the Tesla as a DD. Very different over on those forums because it is all tech based. As far fas the Tesla people who came from MB. I am curious what previous model MB or BMW they had. Going from a base 3 or c class to a model s is a step up if you are after tech. If you want tech and only tech get a Tesla then.

Frank Rizzo

I cross shopped a top of the line performance Model 3 against my E43. I'm too much of a car person to settle for that Tesla interior. My initial thought was that I had installed solar and fuel for the 3 would be "free" - but not really. If I charge when I get home, then half the year the sun is down and I dont have a battery back up system - the juice was coming from the grid. The sales person had several discounted demo models on the locator, but not enough to sway the opinion. I used the auto pilot in heavy LA traffic and that was neat, but the front trunk was not big enough to stuff a body in there.

The whole Tesla thing smacks of Apple fan-boi to me as evidenced by its current stock price vs. its actual earnings.
.

Music_Lover

Same experience as I have.

Music_Lover

That is exactly the reason I drive a MB. It feels like a REAL car. I feels like a luxury car.

kingscorpian27

Yep, I 2nd that. I wouldn’t drive one if it was free. Just not my cup of tea, but to each his own.

wagonsrock

I'm a 'car person' with both a 2018 Tesla M3 and an 2018 E400 wagon.

I love the look of the Tesla; for me its a cool futuristic design on the outside; the minimalist interior looks good once you get used to it, and can be much improved with vinyl wraps on the console, which I did. Acceleration will leave AMGs, Porsches and my E400 etc in the dust. Range is acceptable, and if you understand how to use a super charger (charge before it gets below 20% and stop at 80%) you can be in and out of the V2 super chargers as fast as a combined coffee/bathroom break, so long distance trips not so bad. Low expense of running the car add up to savings of several $1000 a year, due to high cost of gas compared to electricity, and zero service charges (apart from changing brake fluid every 2 years) as compared to service A service B and worse when plugs need changing etc. And then there are free over the air software updates which continually improve the car, while I'm stuck with what MB installed on the car when it was built; finally, navigate by autopilot is amazing and makes Distronic with steering assist feel like comparing an OLED TV to a black & white vintage TV.

Things that make the M3 less good compared to MB are that its a smaller car, closer to C class than E class, it lacks a heated steering wheel, does not have a power lift gate, no HUD available, build quality is not as good (though my E400 has plenty of annoying rattles over rough roads) and no air suspension available. Inside the E400 is much more luxurious, with heated arm rests, ventilated seats, leather everywhere, and a great dual screen digital instrument panel; it also has better sound insulation. I love the E400, but can see going for a model Y in the future unless MB really get their act together soon for their EV offerings, and improve the real range of what they design beyond the EQ which sucks compared to all long range Teslas.

One final thing: Tesla's supercharger network is a game changer for long distance drives, and its hard to see how other companies making EVs are going to compete with this, unless they make a massive investment in infrastructure.

Egonvdv

@wagonsrock but isn't the Y just a slightly bigger 3 ?

ua549

Superchargers are only located in highly populated areas. I travel annually from Bemidji, MN to Billings, MT - 750 miles of mostly I-94. It is an easy 10 hour drive with a fuel stop in Bismark, ND. A look at the Tesla charging station map shows there aren't any supercharger stations along that route. Until charging stations are as available as gas stations, electric vehicles will not be practicable for long distance drives. BTW the current Tesla driving range won't get me out of Florida.

wagonsrock

Cargo capacity is a lot more: 66 cu ft, which compares well with the E400S (wagon).
I think this is in part due to the larger hatch compared to the M3.
Like the wagon it has an option for 3rd row seats for midgets

wagonsrock

You are right: More super chargers are needed outside major east and west coast corridors. But for Florida there are plenty, and many Tesla users have posted videos of long distance trips in this region. The range is of course much less than a gas vehicle, which you can drive from full to empty, while with a Tesla its faster to make stops every 150 miles or so to top up the battery, but that's pretty quick, and easy to get used to.

ua549

Stopping every 150 miles (~2 hours) for even a one hour partial charge is not my idea of a long distance trip. It is more like a series of short trips with an extra long meal break between them. Both of my neighbors get less than 200 miles on a full charge.

wagonsrock

If I charge on a V2 super charger with a preconditioned battery at > 20% charge, I get > > 300 mph charging, so the hour long break you mention for a partial charge is not true. Its a completely different way of driving: stopping more frequently to keep battery in a state where battery has maximal charging efficiency, as apposed to driving to for a longer distance till empty and then filling with gas. I agree filling with gas will be faster, but Tesla charging is not as bad as you seem to think, if you do it correctly. On the other hand, in the E400S, for pure highway driving I can get > 500 miles range on a tank, as long as I don't hit traffic.

Surprised that your neighbors get < than 200 miles of a full charge? Is this for a M3 long range battery? If you drive at 75 mph with AC or heater blasting I guess that might happen, but in mid Atlantic, with 55-65 speed limit everywhere, and milder temps, my range if closer to 270, but not the 310 Tesla advertises.

rraisley

Wow, most cars have to be stopped to change, so charging at 300 mph must be great! Although, you'd probably never get it charged, would you. ;-)
That's part of the difference. Of course we're going to drive our E-Class at 75-80 mph. Otherwise, it's like parking. I'd go crazy with a 55-65 speed limit everywhere.

mickhoog

i test drove the Tesla Model 3 last week and i loved it. I did have a very early electric car for a 3 month trial, a Mitsubishi iMIEV, so it's amazing how far the technology has come in that time.

The Tesla drove well especially over bumps, speed humps, etc. I didn't listen to the stereo system, but the sales guy assured me it was awesome, but i wanted to take it all in without the stereo. I liked that you can unlock the 'flap' with the button on the charging cable and it opens and closes automatically.
I also like that you dont even have a start stop button, you just park and walk away - i was amazed by that.
It took me a bit to get used to the buttons on the wheel but it's just a muscle memory thing
The only thing i didn't like is that it didn't have a Head Up Display. I dont want to look to my left to see the speedo.

I am going to test the EQC400 tomorrow so it would be good to see the difference.

Egonvdv

I feel exactly the same as you about the car. however what did you think of the interior & build quality ?

I don't find it particularly good and this for me is where the trade off is between the "3" and the E"
that, plus the difference in size and I'm not sure if I like the "no controls/buttons"...

tomorrow i'm going to the dealer (there's only one in the region, in aix en provence) and have a look at the Y

and on sunday i'm gonna test drive once more with my friend, this time to extensively test the autonomous driving

I also Like to thank everybody for their input, it's a much moe balanced discussion then one could find on any tesla forum ;-)

please keep it coming.

wagonsrock

Is the Y available to see? They are not yet shipping in US. I've been to Aix on vacation, love Provence to which we have made multiple visits, and am a huge CDP fan and consumer.

I'm a huge Tesla fan, but my guess is you will go with the E400! It could be your last chance as ICE vehicles get phased out.

MBNUT1

Let me begin but saying I am an old car guy. I pretty much have lived an breathed cars for most of my life. I have been a Mercedes fan boy every since as a 5 year old I climbed into the front seat of my Dads new to him year old '59 180.

Last weekend I made the mistake of test driving a Model 3 with my wife. My intent was to check the box as I expected the ride quality to be poor. They provided me with a dual motor with the 18 rather than 19 in tires. Initially I thought I had confirmed my suspicion about the ride quality but once out of the parking lot and on the road I didn't notice the ride quality as an issue. As I got onto the highway I put my foot down and it was absolutely the quickest car I have every been in and unfortunately my wife loved it. It handled extremely well and was remarkably quiet. I actually prefer the smaller size and would be happy to never go to another gas station again.

Where I am stuck is the value proposition, which I could accept if I thought the car would last forever but that brings me to my biggest concern, which is the battery life. As much as I like the ECO benefit of the electric shelling out $15k+ in ten years doesn't have a lot of appeal. Part of the lack of value proposition is that as fun as the acceleration was I really don't prize it all that highly as I drive my W212 to maximize mileage and longevity which means slow. The remaining issues are as you pointed out, the interior design is not Mercedes beauty and the front end looks like something from the movie E.T.

As C280 suggested I am going to take another drive and see what I think. Meantime everytime I bring up a car she says Tesla 3.

MBNUT1

Sitting for more that two hours straight isn't good for your health.

ua549

I usually drive in 5 or 6 hour (350-400 mile) segments, then stop for a half hour rest break and refuel.

TugboatBill

A electric may not yet be a good choice for you. That does not mean it isn't a good choice for others. Most people commute to work daily and the average distance is 16 miles. A model 3 makes a great deal of sense for those people. 5 year cost comparisons show the Model 3 is very competitive with Accords/Camrys and in most cases less expensive. As far as Mercedes goes, well we all know there's a high price to drive one off the lot.

I drive big V8s. I like them but I also know their days are numbered. They will go the way manual transmissions are going. Fewer and fewer until one day ...

rraisley

Very true. We just got two new cars: the E450 Wagon, for luxury use, going out with friends and all travel (and for which at this time an electric vehicle would not work at all, due to trip distances), and a Kia Niro hybrid, for around town. I would have actually liked a plug in hybrid, or even all-electric, for the second car, because we don't intend to make long trips with it. But I wasn't going to pay a big premium (like for a larger or more luxurious car like a Tesla) when a $29k car does the job just fine. Actually, really pleased with the Niro.

JTK44

I have been lurking and following this thread.


I have driven the Tesla Model S, the regular and the super-fast and the model 3:


My observation was comparing the Tesla to an ICE (internal combustion engine) is like comparing dial up internet to broad band. Back in the 1960’s I flew to Europe on a four-engine prop plane. The vibration was unbelievable and for over 10 hours. Compared to that flight a jet flight is like night and day. That also is my comparison of the Tesla to an ICE.


The Tesla is super quiet, super-fast and out handles anything else on the road – that battery between the wheels lowers the center of gravity which provides outstanding handling.


But the fit and finish is more like a Ford than a luxury car.


Why did I not get the Tesla? very simple: I drive to Vermont 6 to 10 times per year and would have to stop twice for over an hour each time to charge the car. It would turn a 4-hour trip into a 6-hour trip. I also travel to Philadelphia and to the East End of Long Island and other trips. With my Mercedes I fill up before the trip and that is it. With the Tesla each of those trips would require a minimum of two 40 to 50-minute stops.


And finally, because of Tesla financial situation, Tesla does not have access to “cheap” money making a Tesla a very, very expensive car to lease.


Fast forward five years to now: Electric cars are inevitable. Within 10 years more than 50% of cars will be electric. I firmly believe during this time charging stations will be as ubiquitous as gas stations are now and charging times will come down.


With that in mind I have put down a deposit on the First Edition of the Ford Mustang EV AWD in Red. I am partial to Mustangs as my first car was a British racing green, black interior 1966 Mustang GT convertible, manual top to save weight!, rally pack, disc brakes, four on the floor with the 289 HiPo V8! (Car was driven three winters in Syracuse and rusted out. God do I wish I still had that car now!)


We also have a Ford Edge Sport. My present intention is to at the end of my lease on my 2019 E450 to turn that car in and I will drive the Mustang. When I go on trips I will “borrow” my wife’s Edge Sport and she will drive the Mustang.


But I do admit my 2019 E450 is the finest car I have ever owned (lease) and I may miss it!