jsclarke

Just in case there are some future owners reading our advice, I love my '17 E300. But Drive Pilot in the Premium 3 package is possibly unsafe, and in my mind definitely not worth it.

I've had my car 5 months now, and I keep trying it. Today on the 73 toll road (Southern CA)- a fairly new well-marked road with white dashed lines on black asphalt,

1. after a gradual left curve the car just drove left over the lane markers into the next lane- the steering wheel shook as it knew it was crossing the lane but it continued on- until I pulled it back,

2. it typically exhibits a ping pong between lane markers, as if the driver is intoxicated, and

3. one finger, or two or 3 aren't enough to stop the "hold the wheel with both hands" warning that comes on every 30 seconds. So I have very deliberately and firmly grasp the wheel with 2 hands. Well if you're going to have to do that every minute why not just steer the darn thing!?

Is this really "state of the art"? Teslas I've been in on the same road are rock solid.

Practically speaking I'd still have gotten package 3 for the surround view and distronic adaptive cruise control, which do work well. But for me- automated steering is borderline unsafe and a bit of a joke. And since it's been doing this since day 1, and I'd think the car wouldn't have left the factory broken, I'm doubting the dealer can "fix" this.

Anyone else think the same way?

ADD0514

I've noticed the same, not very often though. Usually occurred on roads with gray color surfaces.

I've read in an article that this behavior is purposely built-in. MB believes that keeping the car dead centered between the lane markers will diminish the driver's attention. Basically, it's just a CYA and Big Brother thing on MB part.

Tesla and Volvo require the driver to apply some steering input every 15 seconds. With the E300, you must slightly jiggle the steering wheel or touch the thumb pad. A firm grasp will not get rid of the pesky warning.

The hardware in the E300 is state of the art. The implementation is not. As I mentioned above, it's all CYA.

Just my 2 cents.

Proeliator2001

You're not using the system as it's intended and hence that's why you're getting annoyed with it. If you think it's a virtual chauffer that will drive you for miles along the road you're wrong. It's a steering ASSIST system, not a replacement. It's only level 2, a long way from level 4 or 5 which is what pining for.

I hold the steering between thumb and two fingers and find i rarely get the warning tone/display come up. I'm still actively steering the car and paying some attention to where the road goes. The system relieves the strain of longer distance driving.

Use it as an assist, not a hands off system, and it's great. Try to go beyond its limits or abuse it, it's obviously not going to be great. At best it's going to know where the lanes are 25 percent of the time but as it's a silent system, no actually alert to say it is or is not tracking, you have to pay attention at all times (well most of the time, you learn which roads it likes under which conditions)

My favourite aspect of the system is traffic jams as that's when you can normally be hands off for extended periods. I just gaze out the side window or pan roof in those stop start situations and find the system is excellent. Oddly, it often cancels its own 'hold the steering wheel' warnings in stop start traffic so you can go minutes at a time without touching it.

If you really want to be hands off and have great medical coverag I've seen you can wedge a drinks bottle in the steering wheel to mimic your hands. Not recommended though.

jsclarke

I just expected Drive Pilot would perform similarly to what Mercedes showed- in videos they produced- like this one...
and mine doesn't perform anywhere near that well

Proeliator2001

You see how amazingly clear the road markings are. Clearly not a coincidence. The centre line looks like it was painted that morning. On UK roads, our road markings for lanes are all white and easily dull/wear away. At best the contrast is still small with a grey road compared to yellow. Where lines are clearly visible the system works great. On that road with those markings, I'd be happy to read a book.

jsclarke

Wow... German engineers purposefully programmed the car to drive like Mr. Magoo? Or Foster Brooks coming home from a bar...?

That'd be worse than building a system that couldn't drive straight in a lane. Sheesh....

ADD0514

The autonomous driving capabilities are sharply curtailed when the E300 was released while advertising campaigns boasted about the amazing tricks you saw in the video. Consumer Report magazine accused MB of false advertising, MB relented and changed their ads. Early adopters who had the same expectations as you did were pis$$ed. Tesla stuck by their gun but eventually reduced the hand off duration in "autonomous" driving mode.
The next S class will have better hardware and self driving capabilities.

ADD0514

They wanted to avoid incident resembling the Tesla accident where the driver got killed. MB wanted to keep the driver slightly on the edge and not completely relying on the car.

c4004matic

It is state of the art indeed. Your concern should not be MBs system, but rather, knowing its limitations, realizing that the state of the art is far from any sort of self driving car. Its a bunch of baloney.
The self driving cars being tested use a top mounted rotating laser system and a trunk mounted computer system that fills the trunk! Even those are fairly stupid compared to the locomotion system of a fly! The animal brain maybe slower than a computer adding zeros and ones but its a massive parallel computer. The cerebellum which automatically coordinates our movements can process millions of sensors instantly. Our eyes also have millions of individual sensors that can recognize size, shape, color and distance also instantly. We are decades from having a system that is even remotely close to doing that. In fact, the biggest thing that every manufacturer is trying to achieve is deconstructing the task in as simple as possible blocks to "maybe" get the job done. They are not even close, take it from a former neuroanatomist.

joshg1001

The video above is for the 2nd generation of drive pilot which will debut on the refreshed S class later this year. That car is able to slow down when it approaches the curve while our car will continue at the selected speed.

As for the curves, Ive noticed that the car performs much better if you stay at 65mph or under. Any faster and it will leave the lane when turning since it cannot perform enough steering, and also it has a hard time returning to center after the turn. I also just touch the thumb pad when it prompts me which is a small problem.

Streamliner

I can't speak for "Drive Pilot," but the Distronic cruise control in our three MB's is, IMHO, "THE" all time best option ever offered by any auto maker. I use it constantly, both at cruising speeds or in stop & go traffic. I'm ADDICTED to it!

BeachBunny

@jsclarke: If you know of a better system out there, please tell me as I'm about to pull the trigger on a '18 E300 solely because of Drive Pilot. BTW, both Benz and Tesla buy their self-driving systems from the same vendor -- Bosch Mobility Solutions.

I have a 2015 E350 w/Distronic and find it's the best feature of the car. I drive with it engaged about 90% of the time. About the only time I don't is when I'm in a parking lot. Arguably, it's been the most reliable function on my problem-ridden car! The longest hands-off time I've had with the car was just a hair over 45 minutes in nasty traffic. Literally, 45 minutes where I didn't have to correct the car at all.

I'll admit that I've not driven a P3-equipped E300 for any appreciable distance, but I'm assuming it's behavior is similar to the outgoing E-Class'.

I don't know your background, but I suspect you've never flown an aircraft with autopilot. A modern airliner such as an Airbus A350 or Boeing 787 is an amazing piece of technology. Both sell for ~$130M USD. I know, MSRP is $300M+, but that's not what the airlines are paying. Both have the latest and greatest autopilot technology and have full autoland capabilities. *BUT* You won't find a single pilot who will let the aircraft autoland without their hand on the side stick / yoke. They're not allowed to by procedure either. Airline pilots are trained extensively on the systems' functions, logic, and most importantly -- their limitations.

The Drive Pilot system on your car is actually more advanced than what these aircraft have. Without getting technical, there are multiple radio beacons & antennas on the airfield and next to the runway which guide the aircraft down. These autopilot systems, which cost well more than an entire E-Class, are completely useless on the ground. It's not going to be able to taxi to the gate after landing. And it certainly isn't going to stop for a catering truck in the way. They also are useless when the ILS at the airport isn't working or a sensor on the aircraft isn't working properly. The autopilots in and of themselves also don't have any clue as to surrounding traffic. Yes, TCAS does, but that's separate from the autopilot and still relies upon the transponders from surrounding aircraft sending their position & altitude rather than the aircraft seeing/sensing it by itself.

Contrast this with Drive Pilot / Distronic, which has to re-create the environment in its using only its own sensors and then respond to it. It has to figure out the difference between a road crack or pavement seam vs. road stripe. It has to know the difference between a tree, pedestrian, deer, and truck.

Now... the systems in these cars are capable of FAR more than what they're being allowed to do. Blame the attorneys and regulators, not too dissimilar from the crappy headlight restrictions we have in the USA. The car is capable of understanding the difference between a red & green traffic light, but is prohibited from doing so by regulation.

The drunken-steering it sometimes does is partially to engage the driver, but it's also the car asking the driver for guidance as to where the center of the lane is. Mine will do this occasionally from a dead stop at a traffic light. Just centering the vehicle in the lane will stop that nonsense and the car continues to track straight.

Do bring up your concerns with the dealer -- my Distronic unit's software has been updated multiple times as they've been working on my car and each update has been a major improvement over the previous.

@c4004matic: I always use the example of a field mouse, but you are correct, even a lowly fly has more "intelligence" than the car does. To me, it's amazing that the car is capable of doing so much when ultimately it's all controlled by mathematic algorithms. The car doesn't have the benefit of object recognition like an animal brain does.

@joshg1001: To the best of my knowledge, Distronic/Drive Pilot currently aren't allowed to use the map data for navigation per regulation. The system's capable of it, but I've never seen mine perform as if it had read the map. Mine will slow down as more steering is applied by the car or driver, but I've never seen the car slow down in anticipation of a curve.

joshg1001

Correct, but the new S class should have this feature later this year

Sunrose305

Using the Drive Pilot, here's is the most important lesson I have learned about all autonomous driving systems:

It's going to take several years of FLAWLESS experience before I can be completely relaxed while granting a computer the life-or-death responsibility of driving me around. Until then, I simply cannot take my eyes off the road or my hands far from the steering wheel. It only takes one "whoops" to make me a statistic.

I have been driving for 40+ years. I literally trust my life with my driving skills every day. I can be deep in thought or intensely listening to a radio program, seemingly not paying any attention to the road. Yet at some brain-stem level I am 100% monitoring everything going on around me and ready to react immediately.

I too bought my 2017 E300 in large measure because I wanted to be an "early adopter" of autonomous driving technology. I came very close to buying a Tesla instead but their interiors suck, if you have an accident it can take months to get parts, there are too many bugs (getting much better) and my nearest service center is over an hour away. Not to mention that it would cost about $40k more as I wanted it equipped.

So far I am ok with Drive Pilot. Not thrilled but not overly disappointed. No question it is a work-in-progress. I knew if I wanted the "next-level" of proficiency I would have to wait another year. And in a year from now there would be yet another "next level" peeking around the corner. I expect we are four or five years away from a really capable system that can handle 90% of all driving. So if you keep waiting for the next best system you will never actually buy one. Sort of like smart phones or TVs.

My Drive Pilot drove me flawlessly on a 50 mile highway trip the other day -- in traffic, around curves, changing lanes, changing speeds, etc. all at 70+ mph. But it was definitely not relaxing.

If I want to play with new technology I flick on Drive Pilot. if I want to relax and forget about driving -- I drive myself.

c4004matic

Bunny, my experience has been that the "distronic" portion of the system is almost flawless and most definitely among the best if not the best in the market.
The self steering portion is an OK assistant but far from anything I would let drive itself. At high speed it can only tackle very slight turns, that is, if the conditions and weather are good. As expected it does better at night when the road markings are most easily seen (white markings in the dark).
At slow speeds it does a lot better, in heavy, slow traffic it can basically drive itself, you simply have to keep an eye out for lane jumpers. The reason is simple, at slow speed, the system works primarily from the multiple radar sensors which will lock on the car in front of you, the system is essentially "following the leader". At highway speeds on the open road, its using the visual sensors (cameras) more, which as expected, are prone to light, contrast, weather and even bugs splattered on the windshield.
That's it in a nutshell.

c4004matic

If you just rely on the distronic and turn off the steering portion, that, will be the most relaxing drive ever! After you get used to the fact that steering portion of the system is just an aid it will also contribute to the ahhhhhh factor. I simply love it in a traffic jam, it lowers my adrenalin levels in half. Makes the usual idiot in a Bimmer driving like a moron seem just another quibble I can simply ignore .

tresean1

I totally agree with you on this! I am glad someone else feels the same way, and it's not just me. I have a 2014 E350 with Distronic Plus + Steering Assist, and it's basically the same "symptoms". So if you're not happy with Drive Pilot (which is supposedly more advanced), just imagine what I am going through. I had the liberty of dring a GLS with Drive Pilot for a few days and, while it was a little better than Distronic, I expected a lot more--and it certainly scared me at times (as the steering is actually heavy and felt like it was fighting me when I tried to correct it from driving over the marking and causing an accident ). THAT is certainly unsafe! So the car essentially said "I want to kill you, and will make it hard for you to stop me"
I have not been able to drive on "autopilot" for longer than 10 seconds before the nanny pops up and ask for steering input. So you're saying that ping-ponging all over the highway is the system's way of saying "I am safe, and this is my Steering Assistance to you"? Wow, like the OP said, I'd rather have the friggin' thing not steer at all!

But all in all, thanks for the suggestion of bringing it up to the dealer. Hopefully I won't get the generic "we couldn't duplicate the issue and everything's working fine" that they are programmed to say---and they can actually fix it via software or hardware update.

tresean1

c4004matic

Maybe its a screwy steering wheel sensor. On my car just a slight steering input with a finger will make the "hands on the steering wheel" popup go away. Remember, its not touching the wheel that does it, its some actual steering wheel turning, even a very small one.
The system will in fact pull a little bit against what you would expect on one specific instance, if you are on the highway and there is an exit and there is no cross lines, the car will follow the exiting right solid line. On the Mercedes system it doesn't happen all the time and simply holding the wheel in the opposite direction is all you need to do, the tug is slight. On my MDX it does it at virtually every exit as described and the tug is more significant.
Simply drives home the point, drive pilot is an assist device, it is not meant to be hands free system. Keep your hands on the steering wheel AT ALL TIMES.

Dashoto

I find the Drive Pilot system quite enjoyable, once you understand its limitations. That being said, I travel daily about 26 miles on I294 in Chicago and DP will carry me from on ramp to off ramp. I won't use it on surface roads. And on a 500 mile trip to Memphis, I arrived both ways relaxed and not worn out. The assistance DP provides is worth the price from P2 to P3

HBerman

My car was produced in October, 2016 and delivered the first week of November. Other than a problem with the VPN certificate which wasn't authorized properly at the VPC, the car has performed flawlessly including the Drive Pilot. I only have to keep a light touch on the perforated leather of the steering wheel to keep everything running (or just touch on that section of the wheel when prompted). I do NOT have any "ping-pong" effects in lane keeping nor have there been any false issues when running down the interstates. The car will change lanes on demand if I use the signal lever, slow down/speed up with traffic, etc. Personally, I think that you either have a dirty windshield over the cameras or there is an electrical issue with one of them.

DMRDSM

Have had our car since Thanksgiving. Have taken a 3,200 and a 3,400 mile trip and multiple 200 and 300 ones. Feel the drive pilot is a great feature that works well. We don't consider it worthless. We tend to drive long hours, driving 17-25 hours straight. The pilot leaves us less fatigued since it's doing all of the work. While it is a driver assist, we can drive for very long period without touching wheel. Our number one complaint is the route guidance of the nav. We've had in car navigation systems since 2005 in Toyota vehicles and the Benz one can't compare to the early modal 2006 Camry. What a piece of junk. After a couple of misguided episode's to Atlanta and points in FL, we now travel with a Garmin that we use in rental cars. What a waste of that beautiful high res scteen. Never would've guessed a $73,000 Benz could have such a worthless nav system. It doesn't announce soon enough, especially in 6-8 lanes, can't handle fly overs with multiple lanes splitting off of them and often doesn't know it's left from its right. In our Toyota, we never have to guess what the nav wants us to do. It has clear voice and visual guidance. Also miss having an audible sound for cross traffic alerts when backing up.

Egonvdv

i thought in traffic jams the car can come to a complete stop and then start again?
After a complete stop mine restarts the engine (stop&go) but won't move untill I hit the accelerator.

Streamliner

It's a safety feature. After a period of being stopped, you can hit the accelerator or you can pull the cruise lever back to get the car going again. I turn my ECO system off every time I start my car.

Egonvdv

if u turn eco off does that make a difference, IE will the car start to drive by itself?