Egonvdv

my 1st concert was in 1992 (i'm from 1971), last tour I saw them in Barcelona (august 2017) and paris (oct 2017)
Rock on!

Egonvdv

ok, so it' starting again, 3 weeks after they changed the front & rear discs...

question is; what now....?

Am I to accept that my 65k eur Mercedes brakes like a Lada..????

robert c

I must admit yes I think so in your case. It hasn't in mine as I don't have nor could I use that adaptive system. Do you have a thermal gun to determine the temperature of your rotors after you have used that system and before the rotors cool down. I have also always believed that rain does affect the "warping" of rotors so please consider that thought. This issue has been around for years but I have just pulled the rotors and trued them and then put a none directional surface on them. if nothing else works crank up "let it bleed" by the Rolling Stones
robert

Egonvdv

ok you almost got me with "let it bleed".. but not quite
unfortunately I do not have a thermal gun & as to rain; we don't get that a lot here.
I'm just flabbergasted that because of having a MODERN system, my MB now brakes like an OLD car...

robert c

I just thought of something else I have experienced throughout the years. We never had this issue back in the drum brake days. It started at the time front disc brakes were routinely used. I have observed on my vehicles and the vehicles of others serviced that besides allot of heat buildup in the rotors another big cause is impact guns. I have had a perfectly great driving car come out from a tire shop and the brake shudder start almost immediately. I rarely see a shop use an impact gun properly in fact I won't use one my self except on my 3500HD truck as the rotors are massive on it. so has your vehicle been near an impact gun?
I have also experienced a great driving car after coming down steep grades at speeds while using a significant amount of breaking to have shudder at the bottom until rotors cool off. Doesn't happen with my truck and show car trailer as the trailer is contributing a great deal of breaking.

Egonvdv

what is an impact gun?

the only thing my dealer said the 2nd time they changed the discs was that "they followed the instructions
to the letter, because it's a quite precise procedure to mount the discs" (paraphrasing a bit...)

as mentioned before i've had 3 mb's, None had adaptive cruise, all without warping:
a new w212 from 2014/2017,
a new c207(e coupé) from 2011/2014 &
a new w204 (c class)from 2008/2011

This sucks big time.

robert c

oops I was using a local term in my area. It properly is known as an air or electrically operated impact wrench. They are very handy and actually save much shop time BUT since they are capable of 250-300 ft lbs of torque which is much more than the approximately 75 ft lbs of torque a typical car tire stud requires bad things have happened. oops my bad I should convert ft lbs to Nm for you guys across the "big pond". Anyway I own 3 of them and one is actually lithium battery powered and is capable of approximately 250 ft lbs; way more than enough to remove lug nuts on a flat car trailer tire wheel.

now back to our issue. It appears your dealership is mounting and unmounting the wheels properly. Because you have never experienced this issue on previous cars I am convinced it is caused by these new cruise control systems and the self driving pilot feature on the P3 cars heating the brake systems. A few years ago wheel mounting procedure changed for us as we had pilot centering hubs and wheels but I have usually only experienced that on larger truck wheels. It is interesting your dealer mentioned a very preculiar wheel mounting is used so I am wondering if a form of pilot centering is now used on these model wheels. I will try to look into available service manuals. I am a Lexus person also for many years and they use a small wheel centering hub but without locator pins. Mounting of rotors and wheels is not a difficult procedure BUT you must pay attention to the lug nut tightening procedure. Again since you have never experienced this on previous MB's the issue is very unique to the non-AMG rotor equipped cars with P3.

I have read the bulletins referenced in previous posts and noticed an interesting note that they say a brake pad replacement is recommended. I too have changed pads when turning and truing rotors but have never seen the changing of pads to make a difference. If you had lathe experience you would see what I mean as every car I have worked on with brake shudder has always had brake rotors that were not true. If my E300 develops this issue I will simply pull the rotors true them on a lathe, put a random finish on the surface, wash them and reinstall. Not a timely procedure and very inexpensive.

Egonvdv

ah, ok I know what you mean now.
as to the problem: I'm pretty pissed off about it... is this how I will have to drive for the next 2.5 years....????
will wait a bit longer to see if it gets worse, but in principal this is not something i'm willing to accept...

robert c

I agree this will be something you will be "living with" unless MB changes the rotor material or cooling system for the non AMG rotor cars with your options. Just as a reference, not that I am shouting Lexus but I believe I have trued the rotors on my 2007 ES350 twice in 256,000 miles. Not sure of the conversion to Km on that one.

Another thought is the area you drive in and how you drive the vehicle can contribute but this can lead to a very subjective opinions so just putting that out there. I feel certain your dealer techs are bolting and torquing the wheels on correctly so anything you can do to minimize brake rotor heat will help. Brake rotors and pads are made with several material combinations but I am not knowledgeable about those combinations as I feel certain MB is looking into that due to the issue on certain cars.

And cranking up the Let It Bleed Stones album won't mask the shudder item only cancel out road noise.

Egonvdv

Called dealer to advise problem returned within a week after having changed all discs.

He replied that he doesn't know what else to do and that "i'm the first client to have this problem"
(translation: "you're being difficult " ????)

Got an appointment for Friday 6th april 2018, to test drive with a mechanic.

Problem is at it's worst since I've owned the car, especially when braking subtle (which adaptive pilot does OFTEN)

I'm NOT willing to let this slide, but.... maybe I have to change my name to goliath.. or don quichotte...??????

Egonvdv

ok so dealer fully agreed with me after only 2 minutes in the car.

the vibrations are at their worst since I got the car in august 17.
noticeable at al speeds, but over 100km the whole car starts to shake - crazy

dealer is going to contact MB to see what needs to be done.

To be continued

parkwood

Sorry to hear you are having such a serious problem. Do keep posting on what your agence and MB say and do. I am expecting delivery of my e class break in June and will be very disappointed if it has the same sort of issues. It is a 220d 4matic executive line break with air body control and the driving assistance package. It is the first time I have been able to have all the things I want on the car so if it drives badly it will be so disappointing. I am based in Normandie so we do get a lot of rain!

I currently have a 2015 C250d break also with distronic and that has had no such problem. I use the distronic whenever on the peage but in day to day driving i normally use the limiter de vitesse. I am tend to drive in an anticipatory style so rarely brake heavily. However the majority of my driving is on departmental roads and I use the peage or route national infrequently. Given he new e is on the same MRA architecture as the current C I would expect the braking system to be similar.

Bonne chance.

robert c

yes, keep us informed of course during their investigation they will look to see if the wheels have ever been mounted by someone other than the dealership and you have convinced us your dealer knows how to mount wheels and torque on a disc car. They are going to have to do something with the rotors on the P03 cars that are not AMG rotors! In the meantime after the warranty the fix is a quick rotor lathe with none directional finish. Mine still brakes as new but, none P03 car none AMG also. I am not sure if the better vented AMG rotor will fit on a standard caliper equipped car but let's hope for the best.
Robert

Cao Black

Most quality shops are aware of the need to properly torque wheels. The first step was to use "torque sticks", and in recent years to be even more precise and use an actual torque wrench. I assume that the MB dealer in question here is using a torque wrench. If not, switch dealers. Also, resurfacing or replacing rotors with the same one that failed is nearly always a temporary fix, and appears to be in this circumstance. It's a shame that MB can't be honest with it's customers if in fact they are aware of "brake shake" issues on cars equipped with non-AMG brakes, or especially those with standard brakes and Drive Pilot. In the long run it will cost them customers. Please keep us posted with the resolution.

parkwood

any news?

Egonvdv

still waiting for them to call me - Don't worry I will keep updating here as long as needed :-)

parkwood

hope they have given you a decent car on loan. I really like my dealership and the service i get apart from the loan cars usually just an a class once a horrible b class and frequently with manual gears. I am english so spent most of my adult life driving cars on the "wrong side of the road"😉. I have been driving automatics for about 15 yrs. Getting into a manual is just doubly confusing for me😂

Egonvdv

i kept my own car - last week was only a test driver.
waiting to hear back from them to make an appointment.
(they have to hurry though, cos end of the month I'm going to the motherland/Netherlands. 1400km drive x2...)

RE Loaner:

when it's a warranty issue i get a free car, but in general it's either an (old) A or B class, or a smart...
(usually choose the smart cos it's the only automatic and i absolutely HATE stick)

when it's maintenance if have to pay for the car (even lease company doesn't cover it)

funny enough Mercedes sends me a VIP card after 1 year of purchase and with that card I ALWAYS have free transportation...

Egonvdv

appointment for 24 April.. they're gonna keep the car for "several" days

robert c

Good luck with this one. I observed how a MB dealership handled warped front rotors incorrectly with my daughter's MB SUV a few years ago. The service writer was not familiar with how rotors can warp and my daughter had already authorized his MB repair before I was aware of the issue. High cost that was not necessary!
Robert

Egonvdv

I won't pay a dime. car not even a year old. they'll have to sort it out one way or another.
(if I wanted vibrating massage chairs I would have ordered that option!)

parkwood

hope they get to the bottom of the problem and you get the car back in time for the trip. Just the sort of trip you want an e class for! Where in the netherlands? Have a friend here who is returning soon so i will become a regular visiter again (used to go a lot in the 90's).

do you have steel or air suspension by the way? Wondering if it might be involved. No news on my car yet.

bonne chance.

Egonvdv

air suspension.

and yes, indeed vi want my car back for the trip. don't see myself driving 3000k in a smart to be honest.

planning to make a few stops in france (oradour sur glane to visti: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradou...Glane_massacre
& Douai in the north where we have some friends.

Then we pop over the border to Belgium. maybe see Brugge, as I've never been.

From there it's off to Rotterdam (used to work there), the hague to see friends and maybe Amsterdam (my birth town).

then to Groningen to see my mom & dad.

Probably will go to Germany as well to see my old army base (abandoned now) in Stolzenau, where I was stationed from 93-95

will drive back in 1 day (a sunday) via Germany

parkwood

I have specced the air suspension so it will be interesting to see if this is involved. My c class is being serviced on 9th may and i will ask about whether my dealer has come across the problem.

Oradour sur glane is well worth visiting i went the week after the stupid vote in the uk and it just made the loss even more painful. I thought we in europe had made such progress.......my new stomping ground in the netherlands will be Raalte when my friend returns in june. Hoping it will be in my new e!

Egonvdv

I hear you man!