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Many years ago, I was on a committee with several BOSE employees in the City of Framingham, MA. They invited the committee to tour their facility. They had a Mercedes on the factory floor and demonstrated how BOSE fine tuned their speakers to each configuration. I think BOSE has fallen out of favor with audiophiles. I never heard of Burmester until I purchased the new MB. I am not disappointed in the sound from my radio and or the iPod.
Many years ago, I was on a committee with several BOSE employees in the City of Framingham, MA. They invited the committee to tour their facility. They had a Mercedes on the factory floor and demonstrated how BOSE fine tuned their speakers to each configuration. I think BOSE has fallen out of favor with audiophiles. I never heard of Burmester until I purchased the new MB. I am not disappointed in the sound from my radio and or the iPod.
Audiophiles were never enamoured with Bose. Maybe with the original 901’s. Maybe!
Audiophiles were never enamoured with Bose. Maybe with the original 901’s. Maybe!
Agreed they were never the stuff of audiphile dreams but were decent cheap speakers. The 901 were in fact particularly bad for home audio, they were much better for live venues particularly the pro 802 model which could "take a licking and keep on ticking". The fact was then and now that there is no way that a speaker made of only full range drivers could produce full range sound. The frequency response of a 901 was about 150hz to 10khz virtually chopping everything else off. It was clear and powerfull in between but that was it. In essence, a very talented PA speaker. When used with subs it was an excellent live venue combo.
Agreed they were never the stuff of audiphile dreams but were decent cheap speakers. The 901 were in fact particularly bad for home audio, they were much better for live venues particularly the pro 802 model which could "take a licking and keep on ticking". The fact was then and now that there is no way that a speaker made of only full range drivers could produce full range sound. The frequency response of a 901 was about 150hz to 10khz virtually chopping everything else off. It was clear and powerfull in between but that was it. In essence, a very talented PA speaker. When used with subs it was an excellent live venue combo.
What is your opinion of the E Class sound system(s)? I have not been disappointed, originally, I thought about adding a sub woofer. I spend most of my drive listening to my iPod. XM has not impressed me with choice of music or sound quality.
Last edited by Cambridgehank; 04-07-2018 at 06:47 AM.
Agreed they were never the stuff of audiphile dreams but were decent cheap speakers. The 901 were in fact particularly bad for home audio, they were much better for live venues particularly the pro 802 model which could "take a licking and keep on ticking". The fact was then and now that there is no way that a speaker made of only full range drivers could produce full range sound. The frequency response of a 901 was about 150hz to 10khz virtually chopping everything else off. It was clear and powerfull in between but that was it. In essence, a very talented PA speaker. When used with subs it was an excellent live venue combo.
my brother has Omega speakers, each with one full range driver that he runs off of a flea powered amp and he thinks they sound fantastic. One of the best speakers he’s ever heard. And this is a guy that used to have Dahlquist DQ10, KEF 105, and B&W 801.
my brother has Omega speakers, each with one full range driver that he runs off of a flea powered amp and he thinks they sound fantastic. One of the best speakers he’s ever heard. And this is a guy that used to have Dahlquist DQ10, KEF 105, and B&W 801.
It depends what you listen to, if all you listen to is singing they can be excellent. If you listen to an orchestra they will suck. Though frequency response is important even more essential is distortion free dynamic range. Regardless any "full range" driver is anything but full range even well crafted ones will be devoid of bass thus require a sub for any music that requires low registers. One example of a full range driver are ribbon speakers, essentially all use integrated subs. However full range cones cannot reproduce higher frequencies thus many instruments will sound dull.
Last edited by c4004matic; 04-07-2018 at 03:08 PM.
It depends what you listen to, if all you listen to is singing they can be excellent. If you listen to an orchestra they will suck. Though frequency response is important even more essential is distortion free dynamic range. Regardless any "full range" driver is anything but full range even well crafted ones will be devoid of bass thus require a sub for any music that requires low registers. One example of a full range driver are ribbon speakers, essentially all use integrated subs. However full range cones cannot reproduce higher frequencies thus many instruments will sound dull.
I meant to just say 1 driver, not full range. Lack of a crossover helps its sonic purity.
For what he listens to, he doesn’t need full bass to 20 hz.. What it produces is fine for him. He’ll listen to Fairport Convention, Strawbs, etc. He’s actually quite eclectic. He’s all about the sweetness of its midrange which he says produces it in spades. They and his flea powered tube integrated amp produce a realism that he feels great about. He’s been an audiophile for 45 years. I trust what he says.
Last edited by dudley07726; 04-07-2018 at 06:05 PM.
My car doesn’t have the Burmester sound system just a normal one, but i listened to both and had to say i was impressed with either really. I have come from a RS6 with Bose and that system just seemed to go louder and had much better bass. These cars seem to have almost no bass at all. I have the EQ turned up to 10 and still nothing really...
I listen to everything from Classical, Opera, Hip hop, rap, rock - pretty much what ever my mood grabs me for a day and I am just left underwhelmed when i turn the sound up and it seems to be missing out on the low end.
I read somewhere here that there are woofers under the dash ? Not sure if that is the case in my normal system or just the Burmester - but what changes, if any, have people done to get better sound from these cars ?
Just change standard speakers to Focals, Hertz etc ? Anyone tried the Audison AP8.9 Processor Amplifier ? Add a sub box or anything ?
interested in what you guys have done as i am new to the Mercedes family
Recently, I have been able to hear almost all of the "premium" sound systems, as my upcoming vehicle purchase (likely to be the 2019 E-Wagon) has to incorporate quality audio performance. (High end audio is perhaps my keenest hobby.) I found the best sound -- without question -- was provided by the Bang & Olufson system found in the Audi SQ5. I was dumbstruck by its frequency range, dynamics, tonal balance, clarity, soundstage, etc. Next best, though discernably and regrettably less outstanding, was the Burmester to which I listened in a E-class sedan because my dealer hadn't any wagons in its inventory. Down quite a bit in quality from the Burmester were the Meridian Surround systems I listened to in both the Range Rover Sport and the Jaguar F-Pace S. The worst of the lot was the Bowers & Wilkens I heard in the Volvo XC60; it is a waste of money.
My car doesn’t have the Burmester sound system just a normal one, but i listened to both and had to say i was impressed with either really. I have come from a RS6 with Bose and that system just seemed to go louder and had much better bass. These cars seem to have almost no bass at all. I have the EQ turned up to 10 and still nothing really...
I listen to everything from Classical, Opera, Hip hop, rap, rock - pretty much what ever my mood grabs me for a day and I am just left underwhelmed when i turn the sound up and it seems to be missing out on the low end.
I read somewhere here that there are woofers under the dash ? Not sure if that is the case in my normal system or just the Burmester - but what changes, if any, have people done to get better sound from these cars ?
Just change standard speakers to Focals, Hertz etc ? Anyone tried the Audison AP8.9 Processor Amplifier ? Add a sub box or anything ?
interested in what you guys have done as i am new to the Mercedes family
Try a track with real low frequency not just boosted boom boom. A Bach organ concerto for example most people dont realize that much of the bass you hear everywhere is actually emphasized overboosted bass. If you compare a spectrographic representation of the input with what is comming out of the spakers the difference is appaling. For example, most of hiphop bass is from 60 to 150 hz, its not deep, its loud. Furtheremore, reproducing all that boom takes extraordinarily more power. For example, at home, my 805 diamonds run off a 200 watt macintosh amp, my db1 subwoofers have their own 1000 watt amps. The subs are 100lbs each though they use (light) class D amps. On OEM systems the power figures they quote are pure BS, most produce less than 30w per channel at most. At listenable undistorted levels its half that. When you see an after market application with real loud bass, you see a trunk full of amps and enormous multi subs. What sets OEM stereos appart is levels of clarity at modest sound levels.
Try a track with real low frequency not just boosted boom boom. A Bach organ concerto for example most people dont realize that much of the bass you hear everywhere is actually emphasized overboosted bass. If you compare a spectrographic representation of the input with what is comming out of the spakers the difference is appaling. For example, most of hiphop bass is from 60 to 150 hz, its not deep, its loud. Furtheremore, reproducing all that boom takes extraordinarily more power. For example, at home, my 805 diamonds run off a 200 watt macintosh amp, my db1 subwoofers have their own 1000 watt amps. The subs are 100lbs each though they use (light) class D amps. On OEM systems the power figures they quote are pure BS, most produce less than 30w per channel at most. At listenable undistorted levels its half that. When you see an after market application with real loud bass, you see a trunk full of amps and enormous multi subs. What sets OEM stereos appart is levels of clarity at modest sound levels.
what I don’t like it that even though the fader is dead center, the sound all seems to come from the front. Sitting in the front, I hear nothing from the rears. All the bass is from the front under the dash. Though, it’s very clean.
This article describes what comprises the base Burmester system (13 speaker), why the writer found it lacking, and what he did to make an upgrade: https://w205audio.wordpress.com/2016...rmester-audio/
It's really a very good writeup. But basically the 13-speaker Burmester has two 6" speakers in the footwells that have to cover everything from lower midrange down to whatever they can handle in lower bass. This is the basic shortcoming.
If you want better bass you need a sub, and that doesn't come easy. You have to add in what is missing (low bass frequencies) and then modify the signal overdriving the 6" speakers. If you don't do the latter, you end up with really unbalanced bass. Not long ago you could solve that with crossovers. But with the Burmester you have to get around what the DSP is asking those speakers to do. So it's not exactly easy, but clearly manageable.
The High End "3D" Burmester adds in a dedicated subwoofer and amplifier in the trunk. It also upgrades the basic tweeters to Burmesters ring radiators, which are better known for their gyrations when you start the car. From most of what I've read and heard from speaking to people, this system is better received.
I ordered the High End 3D Burmester system, unheard, and am getting pretty anxious to hear it firsthand. My car's on a boat due in Baltimore April 12, so it won't be long!
This article describes what comprises the base Burmester system (13 speaker), why the writer found it lacking, and what he did to make an upgrade: https://w205audio.wordpress.com/2016...rmester-audio/
It's really a very good writeup. But basically the 13-speaker Burmester has two 6" speakers in the footwells that have to cover everything from lower midrange down to whatever they can handle in lower bass. This is the basic shortcoming.
If you want better bass you need a sub, and that doesn't come easy. You have to add in what is missing (low bass frequencies) and then modify the signal overdriving the 6" speakers. If you don't do the latter, you end up with really unbalanced bass. Not long ago you could solve that with crossovers. But with the Burmester you have to get around what the DSP is asking those speakers to do. So it's not exactly easy, but clearly manageable.
The High End "3D" Burmester adds in a dedicated subwoofer and amplifier in the trunk. It also upgrades the basic tweeters to Burmesters ring radiators, which are better known for their gyrations when you start the car. From most of what I've read and heard from speaking to people, this system is better received.
I ordered the High End 3D Burmester system, unheard, and am getting pretty anxious to hear it firsthand. My car's on a boat due in Baltimore April 12, so it won't be long!
Id love to hear it too for me it was a bridge to far, I had already sunk 4k on the magno paint. 4k was too much to spend on audio given that the base burmeister is pretty darned good for OEM.
I have had both the c sedan and c coupe for extensive periods of times with both burmester upgrades in them. The C sedan was much better compared to the C Coupe. Unless they changed anything for different model years, the sedan was a 2015 and the coupe was a 2018.
I now have the E class, which i can tell by far that it is a better burmester system. There is no way it is the same, just because the name brand is the same. I also had a 2015 SL550, If i remember correctly, I believe it was a Harmon Kardon, but the bass in that system would hit so hard because it was in the front footwell of a 2 seater and as far as I remember they crammed a whole bunch of speakers into the little car haha
There are two Burmester sound systems for the 2018 E-Class Mercedes: the 13-speaker " Burmester Surround-Soundsystem" with 590 watts and the 23 speaker "High-End 3D-Surround-Soundsystem" with 1450 watts. Info here: https://www.burmester.de/en/automoti...z/e-class.html
I would not be surprised if the "base" audio package internally designated as 810 is the old H/K system with Burmester grills like the C-Class.
The option labeled 811 is premium audio package with higher output. Previous generations the H/K L7 was coded as 810 but was 850w (iirc) and the B&O I had in mine was 811.
04-06-2018, 04:46 PM
