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pop.tremuloides 08-13-2018 11:04 PM

2019? Audi to MB for wife
 
Hi Everyone,

I was referred here from the "P" car forum so please be gentle as I asked in the welcome thread.

So long story short, my wife's A5 was destroyed by hail last week. It was her second car she paid for outright. Now she would like to replace it but she (and I) are struggling with the Audi S5 (Sportback and Coupe).

While we like them, we do not LOVE them.

I challenged my wife to see the Mercedes line and after we both drove through the lot on Sunday (dealers are closed on Sunday FYI) , it was a nice opportunity to see a brand that we were not familiar with.
OMG....She fell in love with the C300's and the E300 on the dealer lot.

So now my initial question is.....what are the differences between the C and E series aside from size?

We both HATE the C series "monitor" and saw an E300 with a full panel digital display (we are SOLD on that).....the new S5 from Audi has the panel and we both hate it......
We have been looking at the new (I believe from searching here) that there is an option to order a cockpit that has a seamless display. We have tried to look on the MB site but cannot find anything.

C series is probably way too small for our needs, but she likes the "look".......

We are leaning towards an E450 or E3? for the future and we are not opposed to ordering....

Anyhow if you can help us with the 2019/2018 things we both would be indebted to you all in the community.

Thanks a ton!

superangrypenguin 08-14-2018 08:57 AM

Here I am looking at a 2019 A8 because I'm not in love with the 2018 S class.

Anyways.

1) E>C for a number of reasons

1) E's a lot quieter
2) E rides a lot more smoother, especially with the air suspension (I would never get a car with steel springs again, personally, especially since these cars have run flat tires) -which by the way is a serious reason for some of us (I'm one of them) to still look at Audi as they haven't started down this ridiculous path (with the exception of the 2019 A6 with the B&O upgrade which deletes the spare tire :( :()
3) You can get the 3D burmester stereo with the E class, versus the crappy (but much cheaper) upgrade for the sound system on the C class
4) The C class is built with much less sound insulation, which is demonstrated by Car and Driver's noise measurements. C measured 70DB, and the E measured 66.7DB (IIRC), but ~66DB (that alone is a BIG difference as sound is logarithmic)
5) The interior of the new C class feels really really cheap to me.

I love my older gen C class, and I'm having difficulties moving on, but I am not even considering the new C, just like I'm not considering the GLA/GLC/A/B classes. These cars are not worthy of MB, IMHO.

I would not go for the E300. It has a 4 banger that sounds thrashy when pushed, and the stereo system pipes in fake sound through the speakers (this is ridiculous). I am in b/w a E450 and a S450 at the moment (both 2019s).

AZEZ 08-14-2018 09:59 AM

I agree with superangrypenguin for the most part.

Audi, while a great machine that drives more like BMW than a Benz, is just not exciting and the styles are stale. The S7 will be new for 2019 but otherwise Audi is a yaaawny "meh."

The 2019 Benz E series is fresh, stacked full of technology, and the crown jewel of its class. Go E450 or E53aMG. The E300, as superangrypenguin stated, is a dog. I drove it and walked out of the dealership. Glad I went back and drove the E400. The E has a longer wheel base than the C (translating into a much nicer ride) and so much more interior features and options not offered in the C The AMG version is amazing (standard with the air suspension double screen all wheel drive and an inline 6 biturbo engine with EQ boost -- a pseudo hybrid battery system that is the first in its class); also, the coupe with no pillars is gorgeous!

Plus, all the things superangry said above.

rbrylaw 08-14-2018 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by AZEZ (Post 7528364)
I agree with superangrypenguin for the most part.

Audi, while a great machine that drives more like BMW than a Benz, is just not exciting and the styles are stale. The S7 will be new for 2019 but otherwise Audi is a yaaawny "meh."

The 2019 Benz E series is fresh, stacked full of technology, and the crown jewel of its class. Go E450 or E53aMG. The E300, as superangrypenguin stated, is a dog. I drove it and walked out of the dealership. Glad I went back and drove the E400. The E has a longer wheel base than the C (translating into a much nicer ride) and so much more interior features and options not offered in the C The AMG version is amazing (standard with the air suspension double screen all wheel drive and an inline 6 biturbo engine with EQ boost -- a pseudo hybrid battery system that is the first in its class); also, the coupe with no pillars is gorgeous!

Plus, all the things superangry said above.

.

ua549 08-14-2018 11:00 AM

The E300 2 liter engine is so noisy that it is uncomfortable to drive with the windows open. When paused in traffic it sounds like a heavy diesel.

rbrylaw 08-14-2018 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by ua549 (Post 7528406)
The E300 2 liter engine is so noisy that it is uncomfortable to drive with the windows open. When paused in traffic it sounds like a heavy diesel.

.

superangrypenguin 08-14-2018 01:19 PM

Having driven the E300 and the E400, there is no way I would ever buy the E300. Especially at WOT there's a marked difference. It's a refined four cylinder for sure having driven a few four bangers but it cannot compete in refinement with the 2.0 TFSI Audi engine though.

Anyways my opinion is that the 400 is a much more refined and even quieter engine.

To each their own.

superangrypenguin 08-14-2018 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by AZEZ (Post 7528364)
I agree with superangrypenguin for the most part.

Audi, while a great machine that drives more like BMW than a Benz, is just not exciting and the styles are stale. The S7 will be new for 2019 but otherwise Audi is a yaaawny "meh."

The 2019 Benz E series is fresh, stacked full of technology, and the crown jewel of its class. Go E450 or E53aMG. The E300, as superangrypenguin stated, is a dog. I drove it and walked out of the dealership. Glad I went back and drove the E400. The E has a longer wheel base than the C (translating into a much nicer ride) and so much more interior features and options not offered in the C The AMG version is amazing (standard with the air suspension double screen all wheel drive and an inline 6 biturbo engine with EQ boost -- a pseudo hybrid battery system that is the first in its class); also, the coupe with no pillars is gorgeous!

Plus, all the things superangry said above.

Just keep in mind the AMG version has air ride in the back but it's still coils up front. The 2019 version is all on air though.

rbrylaw 08-14-2018 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by superangrypenguin (Post 7528538)
Having driven the E300 and the E400, there is no way I would ever buy the E300. Especially at WOT there's a marked difference. It's a refined four cylinder for sure having driven a few four bangers but it cannot compete in refinement with the 2.0 TFSI Audi engine though.

Anyways my opinion is that the 400 is a much more refined and even quieter engine.

To each their own.

.

arnsbrae 08-14-2018 02:03 PM

If you’re coming from an A5, you might want to take a closer look at the E Class Coupe - a big step up...

AZEZ 08-14-2018 02:12 PM

Sure seems everyone except RBRYLAW agrees the e300 series is a dog. Sorry that this hurts your feelings. 0 to 60 in 6.2 seconds. This is 2 seconds slower than the E53AMG, and 1 second slower than the E400. The E400 is no race car, but ample for most drivers. And to be 1 entire second slower speaks volumes as to the underpowered nature of the E300. I drove it and couldn't get out of that car fast enough.

Lets put this into perspective. A Toyota Sienna van has 0-60 MPH in 7.0 seconds. Not too far behind and certainly comparable to the E300. Do you want to pay $80,000 for that performance? My wife drives 5 MPH under the speed limit and she loves her 4 cylinder BMW X1 iDrive. Its fine to drive to the grocery store but it would drive me crazy to have this as my every day car. Driving her little SUV to the mountains is unexciting and hard to get up the steep hills. Her X1 is 6.3 seconds 0-60 MPH. So, my wife's dog of an SUV, which is great for her, is the same performance as the E300. It will be tough to get up steep hills and the person asking for advice on this thread lives in the mountains over 8,000 feet. The E300 would be considered a "dog" in that environment for sure. Sorry to rbrylaw if this hurts your partner's feelings, but a dog is a dog. My wife loves hers and I love my wife, but that doesn't change the fact that 0-60 in 6.3 seconds is a dog, especially in the mountains, and not something I personally value at an $80,000 sticker.

rbrylaw 08-14-2018 02:20 PM


Originally Posted by AZEZ (Post 7528595)
Sure seems everyone except RBRYLAW agrees the e300 series is a dog. Sorry that this hurts your feelings. 0 to 60 in 6.2 seconds. This is 2 seconds slower than the E53AMG, and 1 second slower than the E400. The E400 is no race car, but ample for most drivers. And to be 1 entire second slower speaks volumes as to the underpowered nature of the E300. I drove it and couldn't get out of that car fast enough.

Lets put this into perspective. A Toyota Sienna van has 0-60 MPH in 7.0 seconds. Not too far behind and certainly comparable to the E300. Do you want to pay $80,000 for that performance? My wife drives 5 MPH under the speed limit and she loves her 4 cylinder BMW X1 iDrive. Its fine to drive to the grocery store but it would drive me crazy to have this as my every day car. Driving her little SUV to the mountains is unexciting and hard to get up the steep hills. Her X1 is 6.3 seconds 0-60 MPH. So, my wife's dog of an SUV, which is great for her, is the same performance as the E300. It will be tough to get up steep hills and the person asking for advice on this thread lives in the mountains over 8,000 feet. The E300 would be considered a "dog" in that environment for sure. Sorry to rbrylaw if this hurts your partner's feelings, but a dog is a dog. My wife loves hers and I love my wife, but that doesn't change the fact that 0-60 in 6.3 seconds is a dog, especially in the mountains, and not something I personally value at an $80,000 sticker.

.

LAC300 08-14-2018 02:28 PM

I had a C300 for 3 years and now have an E400. I also had an E300 loaner for about 20 days. I can tell you the difference between the C300 and E300 is major, the E is a far better car in every way, everything about it feels better built and it's more comfortable to drive. If you can afford/justify the higher price of the E you should get it and not look back. The C is a very good car and I was happy with it when I had it, but now I don't even want one as a service loaner.

As to the E400 vs. E300, I'm very glad I got the E400 but I wouldn't discount the E300, it actually drives quite well in most situations and it's quiet and smooth with the windows up. I wouldn't write it off. I wouldn't spend a lot of money loading up a E300 though, I would rather get a more basic E400 (which is what I did, mine just has the P1 package).

I think Audi's look great from the outside but their interiors are far behind Mercedes in my opinion.

rbrylaw 08-14-2018 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by LAC300 (Post 7528620)
I had a C300 for 3 years and now have an E400. I also had an E300 loaner for about 20 days. I can tell you the difference between the C300 and E300 is major, the E is a far better car in every way, everything about it feels better built and it's more comfortable to drive. If you can afford/justify the higher price of the E you should get it and not look back. The C is a very good car and I was happy with it when I had it, but now I don't even want one as a service loaner.

As to the E400 vs. E300, I'm very glad I got the E400 but I wouldn't discount the E300, it actually drives quite well in most situations and it's quiet and smooth with the windows up. I wouldn't write it off. I wouldn't spend a lot of money loading up a E300 though, I would rather get a more basic E400 (which is what I did, mine just has the P1 package).

I think Audi's look great from the outside but their interiors are far behind Mercedes in my opinion.

This is the way to provide an nice unbiased opinion. Thanks LAC300!

ua549 08-14-2018 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by rbrylaw (Post 7528409)
That's total bunk ua549. This engine is tried and true for multiple MB cars around the planet. Often, I find your opinion to be self serving to promote what you have.

Have you actually listened to the injector rattle when the car is slowly running? The engine is much noisier than the v6 or v8. I doubt if you have even compared the noise levels of the different engines. Notice that the quiet opinion is with the windows up! I agree. That covers the summer season of driving in Florida. The other 3 seasons I drive with the windows open as do many other people.

rbrylaw 08-14-2018 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by ua549 (Post 7528641)
Have you actually listened to the injector rattle when the car is slowly running? The engine is much noisier than the v6 or v8. I doubt if you have even compared the noise levels of the different engines. Notice that the quiet opinion is with the windows up! I agree. That covers the summer season of driving in Florida. The other 3 seasons I drive with the windows open as do many other people.

.

superangrypenguin 08-14-2018 02:57 PM

As the guy known to have taken soundproofing to the max with the W204 family, I would just suggest one of you to use one of those smartphone phone apps and to compare the two vehicles decibels and bury this hatchet once and for all :D Your measurements may not meet ANSI standards, but at least if you use the same phone to measure both cars at the same environment, it'll definitely tell you which one is louder.

rbrylaw 08-14-2018 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by superangrypenguin (Post 7528677)
As the guy known to have taken soundproofing to the max with the W204 family, I would just suggest one of you to use one of those smartphone phone apps and to compare the two vehicles decibels and bury this hatchet once and for all :D Your measurements may not meet ANSI standards, but at least if you use the same phone to measure both cars at the same environment, it'll definitely tell you which one is louder.

.

AZEZ 08-14-2018 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by rbrylaw (Post 7528602)
Tell that to the thousands upon thousands who drive an E300. And no you're not hurting my feelings or my partners feelings. Surprise, but your opinion doesn't matter to me in the least. But when you and others come here with a holier than thou attitude, you should be called out. I'd venture a guess there aren't many $80,000 E300's rolling on the streets. Most people pay in the low $60s for one and for good reason. They want the size and safety and luxury of the E class, but don't need extra horsepower in their daily driving lives. If your wifes "dog" of an SUV is good for her, why wouldn't an E300 with similar performance be acceptable to others? Offer opinions that are fair and balanced and I have no issue. Denegrate what others think is good enough for them and I do have an issue. It's all in how one delivers their message.

You need to take a valium. Relax. if our opinions don't bother you then why are you making such a big deal out of them? And to answer your question about why the dog is okay for some but not the person asking this question, I answered that question in my post. In the mountains the 4 cylinder is a dog. My wife doesn't drive in the mountains and generally drives under the speed limit. Different circumstance. No one is denigrating anyone else here notwithstanding your constant claims that we are. Everyone but you opine that the E300 is very unexciting due to being underpowered. Its true. That is okay for some, as I said in my post - but apparently you didnt read that part. Get over it. A dog is a dog. Some people like dogs. Dont pretend you dont have a dog when you do. Easy.

rbrylaw 08-14-2018 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by AZEZ (Post 7528813)
You need to take a valium. Relax. if our opinions don't bother you then why are you making such a big deal out of them? And to answer your question about why the dog is okay for some but not the person asking this question, I answered that question in my post. In the mountains the 4 cylinder is a dog. My wife doesn't drive in the mountains and generally drives under the speed limit. Different circumstance. No one is denigrating anyone else here notwithstanding your constant claims that we are. Everyone but you opine that the E300 is very unexciting due to being underpowered. Its true. That is okay for some, as I said in my post - but apparently you didnt read that part. Get over it. A dog is a dog. Some people like dogs. Dont pretend you dont have a dog when you do. Easy.

.

ua549 08-14-2018 05:41 PM


Originally Posted by rbrylaw (Post 7528688)
I know which one is louder. The E300 is louder. But not so much louder that it's objectionable in any way. And especially inside the car you really can't hear the difference.

Perhaps you need a hearing aid. As measured on my Galaxy S9 the E300 at idle produced 45 dB with the windows closed and ventilation off. With the windows open and ventilation off, but still from inside the car the sound levels jumped to 62 dB. The sound level outside the car at idle was 70 dB. The sound level in my house (with my wife working in the kitchen 30' away) is slightly less than 20 dB.

Every 3 dB represents a doubling of sound. So the change represented by having windows open or closed is approximately 600%. The change from inside the car with windows closed to outside the car is approximately 800%.

rbrylaw 08-14-2018 06:43 PM


Originally Posted by ua549 (Post 7528850)
Perhaps you need a hearing aid. As measured on my Galaxy S9 the E300 at idle produced 45 dB with the windows closed and ventilation off. With the windows open and ventilation off, but still from inside the car the sound levels jumped to 62 dB. The sound level outside the car at idle was 70 dB. The sound level in my house (with my wife working in the kitchen 30' away) is slightly less than 20 dB.

Every 3 dB represents a doubling of sound. So the change represented by having windows open or closed is approximately 600%. The change from inside the car with windows closed to outside the car is approximately 800%.

.

ua549 08-14-2018 07:00 PM

I ordered the car in February 2017 which was long before any specs or prices were available for the 2018 E300. I knew that it was underpowered, thus its limited role as a grocery getter that does not leave the city. Typical trip time is less than 15 minutes. Total daily travel is less than 10 miles. It serves its purpose well. I have a BMW 5 Series for highway use. I would have purchased a more powerful non-AMG E Class such as an E500, but the E300 was the most powerful available at the time I ordered the car. I'll probably sell it when it hits 10,000 miles and buy a 2021 or 2022 E Class

dudley07726 08-14-2018 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by LAC300 (Post 7528620)
I had a C300 for 3 years and now have an E400. I also had an E300 loaner for about 20 days. I can tell you the difference between the C300 and E300 is major, the E is a far better car in every way, everything about it feels better built and it's more comfortable to drive. If you can afford/justify the higher price of the E you should get it and not look back. The C is a very good car and I was happy with it when I had it, but now I don't even want one as a service loaner.

As to the E400 vs. E300, I'm very glad I got the E400 but I wouldn't discount the E300, it actually drives quite well in most situations and it's quiet and smooth with the windows up. I wouldn't write it off. I wouldn't spend a lot of money loading up a E300 though, I would rather get a more basic E400 (which is what I did, mine just has the P1 package).

I think Audi's look great from the outside but their interiors are far behind Mercedes in my opinion.

I think my 16 Audi A6 interior is great. Much nicer than the interior of our departed 13 E350 Cab but not as nice as our 18 E400 Coupe

haibieb 08-14-2018 07:11 PM

I currently drive a 2018 C 300 as a rental while i wait for our 2019 E450 4Matic. We have owned (leased) 9 MB's with different engine sizes. Each one brings a level of efficiency, noise and performance. At the end of the day, each of us select a vehicle I think, based on road testing impressions, dealer influence, price and perceived level of value. Many people wished they could own or lease a Mercedes Benz. It is certainly a desired brand, so my take is that while I did not order an E300 over a 6 cylinder, I would not consider it an unacceptable Mercedes Benz. On the road just like the C300, the E300 is just as fine.


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