Performance Tires
09-27-2018, 11:19 PM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
Performance Tires
Ok... need some advice....
Been enjoying my E450 Cab for almost two weeks. When I ordered her back in May, for some reason, NetStar would not allow all-season tires to be configured, even though it was allowed in the DOG. Now sorry to sound like a dolt, but I didn’t really understand that “performance tires” really meant “summer tires” and I really didn’t even know what those were.
Now im scared to death. I love in central Virginia so the “snow” days are only a very small part of the winter. But it does get cold. I’ve read that you’ll practically die and your wheels will explode (sarcasm) if you drive with summer tires under 40 degrees.
I brought this up to my SA (who has been awesome) and said not to worry about it. He has a C series AMG and always has the performance tires on it (for a few years) and has never had an issue with tire cracking or skidding or anything. I don’t know why he would lie to me (he hasn’t though this whole process) because I would likely just buy new tires from him — so he is telling me I don’t need to spend more money with him.
So do just leave them on or spend $1500 on more tires on a car I’ve owned for two weeks? Just FYI... I have nowhere to store the 4 current tires to put them back in next spring. If I do this, it’ll be all season that will permanently stay on.
Thanks for advice.
Been enjoying my E450 Cab for almost two weeks. When I ordered her back in May, for some reason, NetStar would not allow all-season tires to be configured, even though it was allowed in the DOG. Now sorry to sound like a dolt, but I didn’t really understand that “performance tires” really meant “summer tires” and I really didn’t even know what those were.
Now im scared to death. I love in central Virginia so the “snow” days are only a very small part of the winter. But it does get cold. I’ve read that you’ll practically die and your wheels will explode (sarcasm) if you drive with summer tires under 40 degrees.
I brought this up to my SA (who has been awesome) and said not to worry about it. He has a C series AMG and always has the performance tires on it (for a few years) and has never had an issue with tire cracking or skidding or anything. I don’t know why he would lie to me (he hasn’t though this whole process) because I would likely just buy new tires from him — so he is telling me I don’t need to spend more money with him.
So do just leave them on or spend $1500 on more tires on a car I’ve owned for two weeks? Just FYI... I have nowhere to store the 4 current tires to put them back in next spring. If I do this, it’ll be all season that will permanently stay on.
Thanks for advice.
09-28-2018, 12:22 AM
#2
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Ok... need some advice....
Been enjoying my E450 Cab for almost two weeks. When I ordered her back in May, for some reason, NetStar would not allow all-season tires to be configured, even though it was allowed in the DOG. Now sorry to sound like a dolt, but I didn’t really understand that “performance tires” really meant “summer tires” and I really didn’t even know what those were.
Now im scared to death. I love in central Virginia so the “snow” days are only a very small part of the winter. But it does get cold. I’ve read that you’ll practically die and your wheels will explode (sarcasm) if you drive with summer tires under 40 degrees.
I brought this up to my SA (who has been awesome) and said not to worry about it. He has a C series AMG and always has the performance tires on it (for a few years) and has never had an issue with tire cracking or skidding or anything. I don’t know why he would lie to me (he hasn’t though this whole process) because I would likely just buy new tires from him — so he is telling me I don’t need to spend more money with him.
Thanks for advice.
Been enjoying my E450 Cab for almost two weeks. When I ordered her back in May, for some reason, NetStar would not allow all-season tires to be configured, even though it was allowed in the DOG. Now sorry to sound like a dolt, but I didn’t really understand that “performance tires” really meant “summer tires” and I really didn’t even know what those were.
Now im scared to death. I love in central Virginia so the “snow” days are only a very small part of the winter. But it does get cold. I’ve read that you’ll practically die and your wheels will explode (sarcasm) if you drive with summer tires under 40 degrees.
I brought this up to my SA (who has been awesome) and said not to worry about it. He has a C series AMG and always has the performance tires on it (for a few years) and has never had an issue with tire cracking or skidding or anything. I don’t know why he would lie to me (he hasn’t though this whole process) because I would likely just buy new tires from him — so he is telling me I don’t need to spend more money with him.
Thanks for advice.
09-28-2018, 05:52 AM
#3
Member
There is no problem with driving summer tires at low temperatures. The main advantage of using winter (or all season) tires is the grip in snowy and icy circumstances.
In my country, with temperatures below zero in winter but not much snow, 65% of the people drive with summer tires throughout the year.
In my country, with temperatures below zero in winter but not much snow, 65% of the people drive with summer tires throughout the year.
09-28-2018, 06:00 AM
#4
Super Member
Thread Starter
Great question. Manufacturers do seem to share the caution of not using summer tires below 40 degrees. The rubber compound apparently remains stiff, inflexible which can lead to traction issues. I'll bet the lawyers told them to say that. Nevertheless, and no disrespect, but maybe your SA's opinion should be corroborated. if you do choose to go All Season, you may be able to find tire dealers who will give you a "trade in" on your current tires. I believe America's Tire (Discount Tire in some areas) does this. Others may also. Might be worth a few phone calls.
09-28-2018, 07:09 AM
#5
Junior Member
I suggest you look up the characteristics of your tires on a site such as Tire Rack. If they are "Performance All-season", or any of the variations such as High or UltraHigh Performance you should be fine. On there other hand if in fact they are truly "Summer" tires then not withstanding some of the opinions above winter driving will be challenging. In my experience at below freezing temps, summer tires tend to get firm, are much less forgiving, and lose substantial traction. If there is ANY snow or ice on the road you will not have very much if any traction at all, nor will you have much ability to stop.
I suggest you post your question and include the tire brand and model on the Tires & Wheels section of this forum where the Tire Rack moderator can weigh in.
'
I suggest you post your question and include the tire brand and model on the Tires & Wheels section of this forum where the Tire Rack moderator can weigh in.
'
09-28-2018, 07:12 AM
#6
Super Member
Thread Starter
I suggest you look up the characteristics of your tires on a site such as Tire Rack. If they are "Performance All-season", or any of the variations such as High or UltraHigh Performance you should be fine. On there other hand if in fact they are truly "Summer" tires then not withstanding some of the opinions above winter driving will be challenging. In my experience at below freezing temps, summer tires tend to get firm, are much less forgiving, and lose substantial traction. If there is ANY snow or ice on the road you will not have very much if any traction at all, nor will you have much ability to stop.
I suggest you post your question and include the tire brand and model on the Tires & Wheels section of this forum where the Tire Rack moderator can weigh in.
'
I suggest you post your question and include the tire brand and model on the Tires & Wheels section of this forum where the Tire Rack moderator can weigh in.
'
09-28-2018, 07:51 AM
#7
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Many years ago, I had performance, summer not all seasons tires, on my front drive Mitsubishi 3000 GT. We had snow and I drove it to see how it would do - thinking the front wheel drive would overcome any deficiencies of the performance tires.
I was wrong. Car had absolutely no grip in snow.
I now have a Porsche Boxster also with performance tires. It too is a "no go" in snow.
I am fully familiar driving in snow from three years in law school in Syracuse, NY where it snowed every day and I had no trouble in my 1966 Ford Mustang GT and from over 40 plus years of driving back and forth to Vermont in all kinds of snow conditions and blizzards.
So my conclusion is: you really do not want to be on summer tires in snow.
As for cold, my understanding is that summer tires lose a great deal of traction below or near freezing. I am not talking about tire cracking because of cold, (I doubt that will happen) but loss of traction. The compound and formulas of performance tires are meant for warm to hot (caused by high speeds) not cold temperatures.
I was wrong. Car had absolutely no grip in snow.
I now have a Porsche Boxster also with performance tires. It too is a "no go" in snow.
I am fully familiar driving in snow from three years in law school in Syracuse, NY where it snowed every day and I had no trouble in my 1966 Ford Mustang GT and from over 40 plus years of driving back and forth to Vermont in all kinds of snow conditions and blizzards.
So my conclusion is: you really do not want to be on summer tires in snow.
As for cold, my understanding is that summer tires lose a great deal of traction below or near freezing. I am not talking about tire cracking because of cold, (I doubt that will happen) but loss of traction. The compound and formulas of performance tires are meant for warm to hot (caused by high speeds) not cold temperatures.
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09-28-2018, 08:21 AM
#8
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Follow up from TireRack.com:
When faced with near- and below-freezing temperatures, drivers should leave their summer performance tire-equipped vehicle at home and drive a vehicle equipped with all-season or winter tires.
Summer performance tires feature tread compounds engineered to provide traction in warm to hot ambient temperatures. They were never intended to experience near- and below-freezing temperatures, nor the wintry driving conditions that often accompany them.
As ambient temperatures get colder, typically in the 40-45° Fahrenheit range, summer performance tires lose a noticeable percentage of traction as their tread compound rubber properties change from a pliable elastic to inflexible plastic. The tire industry uses the term "glass transition" to describe the temperature where a summer performance tire's grip/slip performance changes dramatically. This means the summer performance tires that provide predictable traction in warm to hot conditions will be found to be very challenging to drive in cold to freezing temperatures. This is especially true when the tires first begin to be driven or if the driver aggressively applies gas pedal pressure with today's turbocharged fours or high-torque sixes and eights. Fortunately, glass transition is a reversible condition that allows the tires' normal traction to return as the ambient temperatures climb.
If ambient temperatures drop to near- or below-freezing, driving or rolling a vehicle equipped with summer performance tires risks the possibility of tread compound cracking. Tread compound cracking is a permanent condition that requires the tires to be replaced. The other condition that can be caused by running summer performance tires in cold temperatures is the possibility of chipping away the edges of the tread blocks.
Since both of these conditions only occur as the result of what's considered improper use or storage, they are not typically covered by the manufacturer's warranty.
TIRE TECH: DON'T DRIVE SUMMER PERFORMANCE TIRES IN COLD TEMPERATURES
Whether you blame it on climate change, a polar vortex or what seems to be the beginning of the next ice age, there's no doubt recent weather patterns have exposed many drivers to freezing temperatures and wintery driving conditions. In anticipation of the next time Mother Nature extends her cold reach, drivers with vehicles equipped with summer performance tires need to know those tires are not designed for near- or below-freezing temperatures on clear roads, nor in slush, snow and ice.When faced with near- and below-freezing temperatures, drivers should leave their summer performance tire-equipped vehicle at home and drive a vehicle equipped with all-season or winter tires.
Summer performance tires feature tread compounds engineered to provide traction in warm to hot ambient temperatures. They were never intended to experience near- and below-freezing temperatures, nor the wintry driving conditions that often accompany them.
As ambient temperatures get colder, typically in the 40-45° Fahrenheit range, summer performance tires lose a noticeable percentage of traction as their tread compound rubber properties change from a pliable elastic to inflexible plastic. The tire industry uses the term "glass transition" to describe the temperature where a summer performance tire's grip/slip performance changes dramatically. This means the summer performance tires that provide predictable traction in warm to hot conditions will be found to be very challenging to drive in cold to freezing temperatures. This is especially true when the tires first begin to be driven or if the driver aggressively applies gas pedal pressure with today's turbocharged fours or high-torque sixes and eights. Fortunately, glass transition is a reversible condition that allows the tires' normal traction to return as the ambient temperatures climb.
If ambient temperatures drop to near- or below-freezing, driving or rolling a vehicle equipped with summer performance tires risks the possibility of tread compound cracking. Tread compound cracking is a permanent condition that requires the tires to be replaced. The other condition that can be caused by running summer performance tires in cold temperatures is the possibility of chipping away the edges of the tread blocks.
Since both of these conditions only occur as the result of what's considered improper use or storage, they are not typically covered by the manufacturer's warranty.
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gfmohn (10-02-2018)
09-28-2018, 04:26 PM
#9
Senior Member
Here in europe winter tyres are a big issue with alpine countries legally requiring a change over at the start of the winter season. In austria drivers tend to have steel wheels for winter and only alloys in the summer. Garages offer a storage service for the spare set. The cars look awful in winter!
In germany if you have an accident and the lack of winter tyres has contributed you will be prosecuted and fined as well as declared culpable for the accident.
i live in normandie france not famed for snow but daytime temperatures dec to mar are generally below 7deg centigrade and I run winter tyres after experiencing 2 yrs of mercedes rwd ownership and the cars inability to cope with what little snow we do get which is wet and slushy. I actually thought the car just too dangerous to drive on our rural roads.
So i changed to a 4matic and winter tyres. Mercedes sell wheel and tyre packs and for the first time my garage are this year now offering free storage but i have plenty of space to store a set of wheels. However loading them in and out of the car is a faff and would not work for saloon owners.
having both sets means i have optimum for the two seasons.
In the uk there is some resistance to winter tyres based on the fact snow days are generally rare but when they do occur the country is seriously gridlocked but winter tyres are not just about snow they also work better in cooler temperatures....they are actually much safer with a reduced stopping distance over summer tyres in cooler temperatures.
Having 2 sets of tyres is not an additional cost as the wear is shared so it is only the wheel cost and they have a resale value.
Given the price of our cars a winter wheel set is not too an unreasonable additional expense.
In germany if you have an accident and the lack of winter tyres has contributed you will be prosecuted and fined as well as declared culpable for the accident.
i live in normandie france not famed for snow but daytime temperatures dec to mar are generally below 7deg centigrade and I run winter tyres after experiencing 2 yrs of mercedes rwd ownership and the cars inability to cope with what little snow we do get which is wet and slushy. I actually thought the car just too dangerous to drive on our rural roads.
So i changed to a 4matic and winter tyres. Mercedes sell wheel and tyre packs and for the first time my garage are this year now offering free storage but i have plenty of space to store a set of wheels. However loading them in and out of the car is a faff and would not work for saloon owners.
having both sets means i have optimum for the two seasons.
In the uk there is some resistance to winter tyres based on the fact snow days are generally rare but when they do occur the country is seriously gridlocked but winter tyres are not just about snow they also work better in cooler temperatures....they are actually much safer with a reduced stopping distance over summer tyres in cooler temperatures.
Having 2 sets of tyres is not an additional cost as the wear is shared so it is only the wheel cost and they have a resale value.
Given the price of our cars a winter wheel set is not too an unreasonable additional expense.
09-28-2018, 08:04 PM
#10
Super Member
Thread Starter
Here in europe winter tyres are a big issue with alpine countries legally requiring a change over at the start of the winter season. In austria drivers tend to have steel wheels for winter and only alloys in the summer. Garages offer a storage service for the spare set. The cars look awful in winter!
In germany if you have an accident and the lack of winter tyres has contributed you will be prosecuted and fined as well as declared culpable for the accident.
i live in normandie france not famed for snow but daytime temperatures dec to mar are generally below 7deg centigrade and I run winter tyres after experiencing 2 yrs of mercedes rwd ownership and the cars inability to cope with what little snow we do get which is wet and slushy. I actually thought the car just too dangerous to drive on our rural roads.
So i changed to a 4matic and winter tyres. Mercedes sell wheel and tyre packs and for the first time my garage are this year now offering free storage but i have plenty of space to store a set of wheels. However loading them in and out of the car is a faff and would not work for saloon owners.
having both sets means i have optimum for the two seasons.
In the uk there is some resistance to winter tyres based on the fact snow days are generally rare but when they do occur the country is seriously gridlocked but winter tyres are not just about snow they also work better in cooler temperatures....they are actually much safer with a reduced stopping distance over summer tyres in cooler temperatures.
Having 2 sets of tyres is not an additional cost as the wear is shared so it is only the wheel cost and they have a resale value.
Given the price of our cars a winter wheel set is not too an unreasonable additional expense.
In germany if you have an accident and the lack of winter tyres has contributed you will be prosecuted and fined as well as declared culpable for the accident.
i live in normandie france not famed for snow but daytime temperatures dec to mar are generally below 7deg centigrade and I run winter tyres after experiencing 2 yrs of mercedes rwd ownership and the cars inability to cope with what little snow we do get which is wet and slushy. I actually thought the car just too dangerous to drive on our rural roads.
So i changed to a 4matic and winter tyres. Mercedes sell wheel and tyre packs and for the first time my garage are this year now offering free storage but i have plenty of space to store a set of wheels. However loading them in and out of the car is a faff and would not work for saloon owners.
having both sets means i have optimum for the two seasons.
In the uk there is some resistance to winter tyres based on the fact snow days are generally rare but when they do occur the country is seriously gridlocked but winter tyres are not just about snow they also work better in cooler temperatures....they are actually much safer with a reduced stopping distance over summer tyres in cooler temperatures.
Having 2 sets of tyres is not an additional cost as the wear is shared so it is only the wheel cost and they have a resale value.
Given the price of our cars a winter wheel set is not too an unreasonable additional expense.
09-28-2018, 11:21 PM
#11
honestly, i don't really mind driving summer tires in the winter as long as there is no snow on the ground. I've actually had summer tires on my last car and it snowed out of nowhere so I had no choice to but drive it and it was okay. Do i recommend it? Nope. But just driving normally in the winter with summer tires, i personally don't mind. They do get a bit harder and they might not perform as well as if it was driven in the summer but it did just fine for me.
10-02-2018, 11:42 AM
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honestly, i don't really mind driving summer tires in the winter as long as there is no snow on the ground. I've actually had summer tires on my last car and it snowed out of nowhere so I had no choice to but drive it and it was okay. Do i recommend it? Nope. But just driving normally in the winter with summer tires, i personally don't mind. They do get a bit harder and they might not perform as well as if it was driven in the summer but it did just fine for me.
10-02-2018, 11:45 AM
#13
Super Member
Thread Starter
I’m going to put all-season touring tires on. Obviously summer tires would be better in the warm WX but what kind of penalty will I have if I just leave them on all year round? I’m not racing the Daytona or trying to make my cabriolet corner like the car is on rails.
10-02-2018, 12:24 PM
#14
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"All-season" means in all seasons; "summer" means in summer.
But you do live near real mountains! The penalty you might pay could be your life (and the lives of others, in your car and in other cars)! This means you just can't do it! What is wrong with you people? You have the expert opinion of Tire Rack; yet you want to substitute your own judgment. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. The opinion of Tire Rack should end the discussion. Next subject, please.
10-02-2018, 12:37 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
But you do live near real mountains! The penalty you might pay could be your life (and the lives of others, in your car and in other cars)! This means you just can't do it! What is wrong with you people? You have the expert opinion of Tire Rack; yet you want to substitute your own judgment. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. The opinion of Tire Rack should end the discussion. Next subject, please.
Besides we we also have two 4x4 SUVs we can use rather than a sports car :-)
10-02-2018, 01:34 PM
#16
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Sorry
The only Roseville that came up on Google Maps was between Sacramento CA and the Sierras. Still, the Tire Rack warning is not restricted to mountain driving or other difficult conditions. And, of course, if you're mot going to drive your summer tires in winter conditions below 45 F, your question is irrelevant.
10-02-2018, 01:58 PM
#17
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Just once again my $.02:
I have been driving to Vermont for over 20 years in Subaru's, Acura MDX's, Audi A6, BMW 5 series and now my E350. All are AWD and all had all season tires - not winter tires.
I was able to drive through everything in the Subaru, Audi and MDX, as they are FWD biased AWD cars. I never ever needed winter tires. Rock solid in all bad weather conditions. If the roads were open I got through!
As to both the BMW and Mercedes: neither as good as either the Subaru, Audi or MDX, but never had trouble with either in up to 8 to 10 inches of snow. The Mercedes is slightly better than the BMW.
However, if I lived in Vermont, then I would seriously consider switching to winter tires.
I have been driving to Vermont for over 20 years in Subaru's, Acura MDX's, Audi A6, BMW 5 series and now my E350. All are AWD and all had all season tires - not winter tires.
I was able to drive through everything in the Subaru, Audi and MDX, as they are FWD biased AWD cars. I never ever needed winter tires. Rock solid in all bad weather conditions. If the roads were open I got through!
As to both the BMW and Mercedes: neither as good as either the Subaru, Audi or MDX, but never had trouble with either in up to 8 to 10 inches of snow. The Mercedes is slightly better than the BMW.
However, if I lived in Vermont, then I would seriously consider switching to winter tires.
10-02-2018, 05:28 PM
#18
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The only Roseville that came up on Google Maps was between Sacramento CA and the Sierras. Still, the Tire Rack warning is not restricted to mountain driving or other difficult conditions. And, of course, if you're mot going to drive your summer tires in winter conditions below 45 F, your question is irrelevant.
