Problem with Air Body Control suspension
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 577
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From: New York, NY
2021 Mercedes Benz e450 Wagon
Back to back, RFTs don't compare to regular tires. They are firmer and more jittery and decidedly heavier. The reinforced sidewall of the RFT simply allows for continued driving. That's the RFT advantage as described...the driver can limp home/work/shop after a flat for up to 30-50 miles at up to a reasonable speed. However, neither type of tire "should" ever BLOW out. Biggest issues are leaks and punctures. A can of tire sealant "should" do the same for a normal tire.
Then again, the key is really proximity to shops. In NYC area, I'm going to drop the RFTs ASAP. But then, I have Uber and tow trucks everywhere. If I lived in central Wyoming, maybe it's a different story.
Then again, the key is really proximity to shops. In NYC area, I'm going to drop the RFTs ASAP. But then, I have Uber and tow trucks everywhere. If I lived in central Wyoming, maybe it's a different story.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 114
Likes: 26
From: The Netherlands
W213
Because I foresee that it will lead to a solid discussion I hereby again ask air suspension drivers to shortly respond and indicate whether they recognize the problem I have described or absolutely not. These reports can help me enormously in the coming discussion. Thanks in advance and of course also thanks to the people who have already responded earlier.
Last edited by Haag; Nov 15, 2018 at 02:50 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 882
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2021 M550i
Today was the first assessment by the dealer of my problem. The words of the workshop manager were: "I feel what you mean, but this is the case with all Mercedes cars". Hard to believe and on the basis of my own experience simply not true! An appointment for further service has been made for a check of the ABC-software, a consult of the Mercedes database and to be sure the chassis and tires will be checked in order to establish that they are technically sound. But I should not have too much hope that it could be solved the workshop manager also said........
Because I foresee that it will lead to a solid discussion I hereby again ask air suspension drivers to shortly respond and indicate whether they recognize the problem I have described or absolutely not. These reports can help me enormously in the coming discussion. Thanks in advance and of course also thanks to the people who have already responded earlier.
Because I foresee that it will lead to a solid discussion I hereby again ask air suspension drivers to shortly respond and indicate whether they recognize the problem I have described or absolutely not. These reports can help me enormously in the coming discussion. Thanks in advance and of course also thanks to the people who have already responded earlier.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 114
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From: The Netherlands
W213
After I drove my car with a mechanic and a second drive with the workshop manager we drove an other car with ABC to compare. Unfortunately this car had 19 inch rims with runflat tires as mine has 17 inch non-runflat. I found the other car slightly better but the workshop manager thought it felt the same as my car. But he completely ignored the fact that with my tires it should be a much more comfortable ride. In his eyes it was all the same. So much for technical insight I would say....
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2017
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2021 M550i
After I drove my car with a mechanic and a second drive with the workshop manager we drove an other car with ABC to compare. Unfortunately this car had 19 inch rims with runflat tires as mine has 17 inch non-runflat. I found the other car slightly better but the workshop manager thought it felt the same as my car. But he completely ignored the fact that with my tires it should be a much more comfortable ride. In his eyes it was all the same. So much for technical insight I would say....
to be honest the 19 vs 17, run flat vs non flat shouldn't make a world of a difference either way. try to get them to the same road where it is most noticeable and the mph, then you/they can set it on cruise control and repeat the vibration.
by the way how did you even get non run flats? didnt even think this was possible. where are you located? USA?
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Joined: Jul 2018
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From: Greater Cleveland area
2019 Dune Silver Metallic E-450 Mercedes Cabriolet NEW Mercedes 2020 GLC300 graphite gray SUV
I don't have the air suspension system on my E450 CAB, have the same tires (Pirelli) as the OP, and don't have any of the vibration issues mentioned. It's a very smooth ride, even over bumps.
I agree, I'd start by getting rid of the rf's. I've been lucky, so far, in my short ownership of my car with the rf's......but at the first sign of trouble, I won't hesitate to get rid of them and get me a .pair of Turanza Serenity's to replace them.
There is no doubt that rf's run harder and are subject to more vibration on the road than regular tires.
I agree, I'd start by getting rid of the rf's. I've been lucky, so far, in my short ownership of my car with the rf's......but at the first sign of trouble, I won't hesitate to get rid of them and get me a .pair of Turanza Serenity's to replace them.
There is no doubt that rf's run harder and are subject to more vibration on the road than regular tires.
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 114
Likes: 26
From: The Netherlands
W213
No, you don't get a spare tire. The car is delivered with a tirefit-set. This set contains a small compressor and a special kind of chemical good that you can put into a flat tire. But that is not a very good solution. It does not always work and the tire can not be fixed anymore after using that stuff. So best is to call the service-line if you have a flat tire.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 446
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EQE 500 4MATIC replacing EQC 4matic AMG line P
I had my winter tyres fitted today and they are run flats. I bought them as a wheel tyre package as the wheels match my summer set.
I am actually pleasantly surprised in that they have not altered the charateristics of the ride to any great degree but oddly on very smooth surfaces they are less smooth than the summer tyres just a minor feeling of lots of tiny imperfections i suspect a similar sensation to the OP.
summer tyres are pirelli cinturato and winters are dunlop wintersport 4 17inch rims ABC suspension 4 matic estate (wagon).
I am actually pleasantly surprised in that they have not altered the charateristics of the ride to any great degree but oddly on very smooth surfaces they are less smooth than the summer tyres just a minor feeling of lots of tiny imperfections i suspect a similar sensation to the OP.
summer tyres are pirelli cinturato and winters are dunlop wintersport 4 17inch rims ABC suspension 4 matic estate (wagon).
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
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From: The Netherlands
W213
Apparently this suspension is very sensitive for the brand/kind of tire. It's not very clear which aspect has the most influance on the mentioned behaviour. At one hand wintertires have a softer rubber composition and on the other hand run-flats are mostly stiffer than normal tires. This shows that it will probably pay off for me to experiment with different tires. Although its remarkable that you don't have the problem with your summertires as they are the same as mine.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2017
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2021 M550i
That is exactly what I established during my test-drives with the BMW 5 series and that is also why I ultimately choose the W213.
Sad to hear that you still have the problem and your dealer could not fix it. I still have a little bit of hope that a software-update of my air suspension could change things. But with steel springs there is not much adjustment possible. I wonder, has your dealer tried other wheels/tyres to fix the problem?
Sad to hear that you still have the problem and your dealer could not fix it. I still have a little bit of hope that a software-update of my air suspension could change things. But with steel springs there is not much adjustment possible. I wonder, has your dealer tried other wheels/tyres to fix the problem?
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 10
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E400 Wagon, A6C5 Allroad, E30s
2018 E400 S213 with ABC and acoustic package, AMG appearance, 19" AMG. Best riding car my wife and I have ever ridden in. I do not have the vibrations that you refer to. Would strongly recommend combo of ABC and acoustic package to anyone interest in E class
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 114
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From: The Netherlands
W213
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 114
Likes: 26
From: The Netherlands
W213
I just got back from the dealer. They could not find anything that was wrong but there were two updates for the ABC-software available, so they installed them. The workshop manager thought that is was a better ride now so I was hopefull. Unfortunately that was false hope. It is exactly the same as before the updates. So I went back straight away and after deliberation an appointment is made with a technician from the importer MB-Benelux. So to be continued.....
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1
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W213
My subjective impressions with my (pre-owned) W213 220d 2016 MY also with ABC, acoustic comfort-package and 17 inch non-RFT-tires:
I notice at low speeds (approx. up to 40 kph/~25mph) and road with little surface bumps there is a "clunky" damping and driving comfort - in my expectation this could be better done, but IMHO I claim this on high level - and maybe specific for air-springs.
In compare with my forerunner BMW F11 (non M-style, but EDC dynamic damper control , frontaxle with steel spring, rearaxle with 1 chamber air-spring) had at same low speed situations with same wheel-dimension and tires (17 inch non RFTCONTI TS850 winter) a more smoother behave.
My MB was origin equipped with 19-inch summer wheels code R66 (275 rear / 245 front Good Year Eagle F1 RFT MOE). The 19 inch wheels had for me a significant negative taste on riding comfort (although with ABC much more vibrations and noise) so I changed to 17 inch non RFT summer wheels and sold the 19 inch wheels.
Unluckily the newer SW for your 2018-modell gave no improvements, on motor-talk people talked about it - but AFAIK for 2017 MY.
I notice at low speeds (approx. up to 40 kph/~25mph) and road with little surface bumps there is a "clunky" damping and driving comfort - in my expectation this could be better done, but IMHO I claim this on high level - and maybe specific for air-springs.
In compare with my forerunner BMW F11 (non M-style, but EDC dynamic damper control , frontaxle with steel spring, rearaxle with 1 chamber air-spring) had at same low speed situations with same wheel-dimension and tires (17 inch non RFTCONTI TS850 winter) a more smoother behave.
My MB was origin equipped with 19-inch summer wheels code R66 (275 rear / 245 front Good Year Eagle F1 RFT MOE). The 19 inch wheels had for me a significant negative taste on riding comfort (although with ABC much more vibrations and noise) so I changed to 17 inch non RFT summer wheels and sold the 19 inch wheels.
Unluckily the newer SW for your 2018-modell gave no improvements, on motor-talk people talked about it - but AFAIK for 2017 MY.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 114
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From: The Netherlands
W213
on motor-talk people talked about it - but AFAIK for 2017 MY.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 389
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E63 AMG Estate
I have exactly the same issue but in my E63. I took to to be the reason being it’s a generally firmer ride and 20” wheels, but the inconsistency of the vibrations is leading me to think otherwise. On some roads it’s awesome, on speed bumps and other ‘big’ obstacles it actually handles things fine.
However, go over a slight crack in the road or some types of seemingly perfect road and I get this ‘jarring’.
I think I’ll get the local garage to give me a 3rd party view and then get it into the dealership.
However, go over a slight crack in the road or some types of seemingly perfect road and I get this ‘jarring’.
I think I’ll get the local garage to give me a 3rd party view and then get it into the dealership.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2013
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From: Venice Florida
2018 S560
I got a horrible ride with my 2018 E63 AMG, I kept trying to justify that it was super duper performance car and this was the price I pay for driving such a super performing car, but the ride was just completely unacceptable, my 2019 E450 Wagon with the harder sidewall 19 inch Run Flats rides much better than my AMG ever did. Same goes for my Cabrio too. I would never buy a car again with the Air Springs. Maybe there is some kind of issue with software or something that only affects certain cars.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,258
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From: Greater Cleveland area
2019 Dune Silver Metallic E-450 Mercedes Cabriolet NEW Mercedes 2020 GLC300 graphite gray SUV
I got a horrible ride with my 2018 E63 AMG, I kept trying to justify that it was super duper performance car and this was the price I pay for driving such a super performing car, but the ride was just completely unacceptable, my 2019 E450 Wagon with the harder sidewall 19 inch Run Flats rides much better than my AMG ever did. Same goes for my Cabrio too. I would never buy a car again with the Air Springs. Maybe there is some kind of issue with software or something that only affects certain cars.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 114
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From: The Netherlands
W213
There is a considerable difference between AMG and non-AMG Air Body Control.
AMG's have a much sportier alignment, even in the comfort setting.
And I'm told that there is also a difference between USA air suspension and the European one's.
AMG's have a much sportier alignment, even in the comfort setting.
And I'm told that there is also a difference between USA air suspension and the European one's.
