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W212 vs W213 - the good, bad and the ugly (My option)

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W212 vs W213 - the good, bad and the ugly (My option)

 
Old 01-28-2019, 02:08 PM
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2014 E350 4M Diamond Silver
W212 vs W213 - the good, bad and the ugly (My option)

Hello,
Edit: Title is supposed to be My Opinion
I currently own a 2014 E350 4Matic. I got this 2019 E300 RWD with (330 miles on it when I got it - sticker price close to 69k USD) as a loaner for a week. The features I like are:
Good:
1. Automatic cameras coming up when the parking sensors pickup some obstacle. I programmed my '*' (fav) button my W212.
2. The interior color combo is great. I usually use the polar white color only in my W212, however the color mix is a nice one.
3. When you increase the temperature, the lights in the dash glow red and illuminate blue when you decrease the temp.
4. The Adaptive LED lightning is great, I like how the little LEDs dazzle dance compared to the W212 two big bulbs do a startup dance. When activated in the dark road, the lights lit like some split screen curtains in the movie theatre.
5. Forward collision is very nice. There were a couple of incidents where I didn't even realized the vehicles in front of me are complete stop. I thought they are moving slowly. I was at least 100 yards away and when the system beeped, I started braking instead of coasting.
6. Wireless charging is great and my iPhone Xs Max with Folio case and Symmetry series cases fits snugly.
7. The controls on the steering wheels needs some time and practice.
8. The brakes are huge and got good stopping power. And the suspension is better as well.
9. The parking and parking sensors can be mentioned twice. Really nice in the new ones.

Bad:
1. Couple of camera angles are missing than my W212 which are useful usually. (top view for the front camera to see the curb)
2. I pause my music with pressing the mute button. I understand Radio won't wait for me, however my music from phone should be paused when pressed mute, like W212.
3. My personal opinion, the sport seats aren't that great. It made my hip pain worse actually.
4. The adaptive high beam is not as great as the S-Class. when oncoming traffic is detected, the high-beam is completely turned off instead of just that section. May be I;m expecting too much for 70k USD?
5. Wireless charging invokes Apple Pay for some reason. Since the phone needs to be connected via cable in order to get the CarPlay, I don't need Wireless charging. Did I miss some option to turn on Wireless CarPlay or there isn't such feature yet?
6. The cruise control stick is removed and replaced with these buttons and they are too many of them.
7. The buttons on the Steering wheel are not back-lit? Come on MB, you know you could do better.

The Ugly:
1. Power is so weak, but if you are a slow driver and want a nice Mercedes with good space etc. this is good enough. It is like buying a V6 or EcoBoost Mustang for the looks, not to crowd control
2. Eco mode sucks, when you have to floor it to avoid some distracted driver the engine stays on high revs and doesn't come easily, defeating the purpose of ECO.
3. Comfort is the mode that comes on default, but it isn't that comforting either in any way.
MB should combine ECO and Comfort and make it a Normal mode, Sport and Sport+ mode.
4. The steering wheel is no where near comfortable. It is hard to turn I guess.
5. the factory tires suck, I lost confidence on them (I have to see which ones they are I would like to stay away from them), brand new tires with less than 500 miles are prone to hydroplaning. I'm much more confident on my old 35k miles worn in Bridgestone potenzas on my 2014 than these.
6. What's up with the doors lately? They just go full swing when I open them? The old ones used to stop at every few inches and stay there. What am I missing here?
7. The seat warmer button for passenger near the driver side is kind of stupid. Why don't you just give the control there itself instead, I have to press the 'R' and then change the seat settings.

I will still have this car for 2-3 more days. AMA
My take, if I have to upgrade go for a W213, but my next vehicle would be a Wagon for sure since S-class doesn't offer Wagons

Just my opinion YMMV.

Last edited by raja777m; 01-31-2019 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 01-28-2019, 05:37 PM
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There's a pic of your car but no description or picture of the car you're using as a loaner. Is it equipped with sport tires?
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Old 01-28-2019, 06:17 PM
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IMHO one can make a comparison based on ownership better than just by having it as a loaner. I had a number of E300 loaners in 2017 and 2018. Each time I was in one, I though it would be a great car if it had (much) more power as compared to my 2014 fully loaded E550 4matic (which I had since new) (however, I would not say that E300 is underpowered compared to E350, of which I had several before).

Now that I switched to fully loaded E450 4matic late last year, I think that I am qualified after 2 months of ownership to say that there's no comparison to the cars - E450 is (much) better in every driving respect, except for maybe how that mighty V8TT feels (I can not qualify nor explain it, since on the paper E450 is quicker, but it just does not feel like V8TT, maybe those who have experienced it would be able to chip in).
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Old 01-28-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CarFan1 View Post
There's a pic of your car but no description or picture of the car you're using as a loaner. Is it equipped with sport tires?
ProContact cx SSR 19" wheels (245/45/19 in the rear).
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Old 01-28-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by threeMBs View Post
IMHO one can make a comparison based on ownership better than just by having it as a loaner. I had a number of E300 loaners in 2017 and 2018. Each time I was in one, I though it would be a great car if it had (much) more power as compared to my 2014 fully loaded E550 4matic (which I had since new) (however, I would not say that E300 is underpowered compared to E350, of which I had several before).
.
Probably true, but I had at least 300-400 miles within this week alone. I had seen heavy rains with it and a couple of sunny days
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Old 01-29-2019, 11:32 PM
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Apple Pay: There is an option to switch off the NFC charging someplace. I have a 6+ and that was irritating me, so whilst stuck in traffic I looked around and found it. No more Apple Pay.

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Old 01-30-2019, 01:49 AM
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Notice how high the belt line is in the w213 compared to the old w212. The older one is so much more open and airy. Back seats in the 212 is bigger and lot more leg room compared to the new one. Also, notice how the instrument cluster is in your face in the w213 compared to the older one. I agree with majority of the stuff you said as well. the w212 had a better fit and finish as well.
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbracer26 View Post
The older one is so much more open and airy.
Back seats in the 212 is bigger and lot more leg room compared to the new one. Also, notice how the instrument cluster is in your face in the w213 compared to the older one.

True, even the bigger GLE 450 beast feels small and claustrophobic than my E-Sedan. I know it is a coupe, but from outside it is huge and way bigger than the actual E-class SUV.
I agree with majority of the stuff you said as well. the w212 had a better fit and finish as well.
Yes, lately the quality seems that way. The C-class for instance, 2016 C300 (My nephew got one) one feels like a box, cheap interior that makes noise compared to a 2009 C300(my uncle owns one).

Last edited by raja777m; 02-01-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:53 AM
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While I love my W213 and it is my first Mercedes, I do agree that the inside seems smaller than the outside of the car would suggest.

I had looked at a leftover 2016 W212 when I got the 213, and it did seem much bigger inside...
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo View Post
Apple Pay: There is an option to switch off the NFC charging someplace. I have a 6+ and that was irritating me, so whilst stuck in traffic I looked around and found it. No more Apple Pay.

.
Gotcha, was able to find that option.
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:53 AM
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Just got my own car back from dealership and wow the steering is so smooth compared to the W213.
I have only two modes, E and S, and the S is so freaking snappy like I never experienced. Turbocharger difference I guess (Mine doesn't have a turbocharger).
The Burmester audio on the W213 is a tad bit better than my Harmon Kardon Surround sound.I know the interiors also plays some role for this.
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Old 01-31-2019, 01:46 PM
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Mercedes would prefer you use the term 'intimate'
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:22 PM
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The rear of the w212 is years better looking then the new one. new one just gets confused with the c-class and is too mellow and boring.
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Old 02-01-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbracer26 View Post
The rear of the w212 is years better looking then the new one. new one just gets confused with the c-class and is too mellow and boring.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Since 2017 I see Mercedes Sedans in Small, Medium and Large. They are not french fries MB, please change the design.
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Old 02-01-2019, 08:44 AM
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What is the point of this tread? For a relatively recent luxury (not sport, hence "smooth", a.k.a. S class like, relatively vague steering) W212 owner to come to W213 forum and praise W212 with totally outdated interior, even though facelift exterior still looks modern? It would be more useful in W212 forum for current W212 owners considering upgrading to W213.

I had 5 W212s (2 550s and 3 350s, all since new) and would not have move to '19 W213 E450 if did not think its a superior in every respect to my former '14 W212 E550, except for one - ventilation/climate system controls.
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by threeMBs View Post
What is the point of this tread? It would be more useful in W212 forum for current W212 owners considering upgrading to W213.
Well, not to hurt anyone's feelings. Also, I do not want to get on the wrong foot anyway. The reason I put here is, if someone already owns a FL W212 like me and contemplating to upgrade, they might find some of my points as their dealbreakers for them.
If power is a must, go for E400 or more, like I gave mustang example. Just want to go for bigger size than C-class but slower engine and better quality than C-class get the E300.
People come to the new car section to ask about the current car. No one would go to old car and ask for the new features may be?

I had 5 W212s (2 550s and 3 350s, all since new) and would not have move to '19 W213 E450 if did not think its a superior in every respect to my former '14 W212 E550, except for one - ventilation/climate system controls.
I did not drive or got into a E550, but I believe the interior would be same as my 350. being said that, the new Climate control is good and straight forward in the W213, not sure what mean by the climate controls.

For a relatively recent luxury(not sport, hence "smooth", a.k.a. S class like, relatively vague steering) W212 ownerto come to W213 forum and praise W212 with totally outdated interior, even though facelift exterior still looks modern?
For some, the relatively vague steering is a point to consider. For longer driving times and especially in City driving the steering is really tight.
I may agree about the interior being outdated (not necessarily - I added iOttie Wireless charger car mount - maps while charging; multi-contour seat with massage is still awesome), but yeah the Exterior (especially rear) W212 is better than the W213 or I was just lucky to score some head turns till date.
As I mentioned, I hate buying french fries from MB in SMALL, MEDIUM or LARGE sizes.

Congrats on owning so many MB vehicles of same kind, and congrats on getting the newer 2019 model too. I didn't mean to hurt or insult any new owner in any way. Have a nice day.
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:53 AM
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No apologies required. The discussion however is more appropriate in W212 forum in my opinion, as W213 owners here have already moved on.
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Old 02-01-2019, 10:41 AM
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You both kind of have a point. It's a W213 forum for owners. Seems the W212 forum for potential traders would make this thread more worthwhile. But, I can also see wanting to get 213 owners point of view, especially if they had a 212...like me.

Now that said, I disagree with almost everything asserted herein.

The exterior of the old wagon was boxy as hell at the rear. The new rounded look of the S213 is so much more pleasing to my eye.

The interior of the old S212 wagon always drove me crazy: those tic tac number buttons made out of cheap plastic, the small NAV display, lack of android auto, and a CD player dead center in dash (please). It was just dated. While I love my designo leather, the rest of the interior was just a little lacking. The new S213 with the swooping center console is just gorgeous. Yes, the black lacquer is a pain in the behind to keep clean and perfect but it looks solid. And, it's my guess that the swooping is why people think the interior "feels" smaller even though the dimensions are essentially identical.

The engine of the S212 350 wagon was so weak. It made me crazy. The was the singular catalyst for upgrading to the S213 450. Ah man, what a rush. Smooth, linear power with ooomph when pressed rather than the stressed whining engine of the 350. Same with handling: I love the tautness of the new wagon and the firmness around corners. It is crisp, poised and planted on the road.

Candidly, I can't think about one think I like less on the new wagon (maybe the lack of a spare?). Maybe the MSRP is a tad higher? But, that latter isn't apples to apples since the engine, interior, tech and materials are all so much nicer.

Anyway, if you like the 212, then no need to switch. You just saved yourself a lot of money. However, for me it was a very worthwhile upgrade.
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Old 02-02-2019, 03:23 PM
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I've had my share of 212's. Couldn't get me to switch back even if you paid me. The interior materials in the W213 are a quantum leap in quality and function over the 212 (IMHO). The 213 drives better too. If the OP wants to make himself feel better to not upgrade, that's fine, but I too don't see the point of this thread and think it would be better addressed in the W212 forum. As already said, we've all moved on here.

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Old 02-03-2019, 07:41 AM
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I skipped around the W212 series.
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by raja777m View Post
The Ugly:
1. Power is so weak, but if you are a slow driver and want a nice Mercedes with good space etc. this is good enough. It is like buying a V6 or EcoBoost Mustang for the looks, not to crowd control
2. Eco mode sucks, when you have to floor it to avoid some distracted driver the engine stays on high revs and doesn't come easily, defeating the purpose of ECO.
3. Comfort is the mode that comes on default, but it isn't that comforting either in any way.
MB should combine ECO and Comfort and make it a Normal mode, Sport and Sport+ mode.
4. The steering wheel is no where near comfortable. It is hard to turn I guess.
5. the factory tires suck, I lost confidence on them (I have to see which ones they are I would like to stay away from them), brand new tires with less than 500 miles are prone to hydroplaning. I'm much more confident on my old 35k miles worn in Bridgestone potenzas on my 2014 than these.
6. What's up with the doors lately? They just go full swing when I open them? The old ones used to stop at every few inches and stay there. What am I missing here?
7. The seat warmer button for passenger near the driver side is kind of stupid. Why don't you just give the control there itself instead, I have to press the 'R' and then change the seat settings.


I cannot help thinking you are a troller because your negative feedback is flimsy at best
1. Power is weak - this is very subjective and reflects your unrealistic expectations. 0-100 in 6.2 is plenty. Plus, surely this is not a criticism of the W213 itself, more the engine.
2. Over taking is fine in Eco mode but you need to apply common sense and avoid situations where the power you need is not enough.
3. Comfort mode is not comforting makes no sense to me
4. Why isn't the steering wheel comfy ? and why do you GUESS it's hard to turn? there must be something wrong with the car you have
5. Which factory tires suck ? W213's in EU come with P7's but others Primacy 3's. I've tested both tires and think they are fantastic . Tires are tires, not the car.
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mister__p View Post
I cannot help thinking you are a troller because your negative feedback is flimsy at best
1. Power is weak - this is very subjective and reflects your unrealistic expectations. 0-100 in 6.2 is plenty. Plus, surely this is not a criticism of the W213 itself, more the engine.
2. Over taking is fine in Eco mode but you need to apply common sense and avoid situations where the power you need is not enough.
3. Comfort mode is not comforting makes no sense to me
4. Why isn't the steering wheel comfy ? and why do you GUESS it's hard to turn? there must be something wrong with the car you have
5. Which factory tires suck ? W213's in EU come with P7's but others Primacy 3's. I've tested both tires and think they are fantastic . Tires are tires, not the car.
Agree!

btw - my new 2919 Estate came with Hankooks as standard tyres on 245/18 on my Estate in UK. They are fantastically quiet and reportedly very good grip, economy and wear.
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Old 02-04-2019, 02:58 PM
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Thought about trading in the W212 (2012 E350 4M) with 49,000 miles for a new (CPO) W213 but honestly I like the looks, feel, sound, power and quality of the W212 more. The new E is a real nice car but the 4 banger engine is weak for a car of its size. The tech is better no doubt but that is about it. Engine is way too loud as well.
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:17 PM
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See, here is where you need to clarify so you don't flame bait folks.

It sounds like you're saying that the 212 E350 is stronger than the 213 E300, and that's presumably correctly. However, the actual competitor for the E350 is the 213 E 400 and E450. They are priced very similarly here in the states. Consequently, you're comment about feel, sound and power is going to ring hollow unless you specify your price point and model.

Now, as to looks and quality, you're clearly entitled to your own preferences. But you need to specify how so. Looks, you've offered the tail (which is admittedly rounded on the 213 sedan vs the 212). But your quality arguments sound like a bit of a cop out to validate why you don't want to or can't afford to upgrade. Witness the difference of the interior center consoles in particular from two stellar representations of the cars (and courtesy to Rod for his interior...note the blue key). That clumsy button layout always made me crazy...and the small NAV screen (though kudos to them in both cars for not stapling the display to the dash like in the C class and Audis). Also look at the window buttons, the door locks, the seat controls, the LED mood lighting, the smooth dash as opposed to the angular one, the vents, etc.

The W213


The W212


This is not to disparage the 212 in any way. I liked it a lot. However, times change. The 213 is just better.
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nycebo View Post
It sounds like you're saying that the 212 E350 is stronger than the 213 E300, and that's presumably correctly. However, the actual competitor for the E350 is the 213 E 400 and E450. They are priced very similarly here in the states. Consequently, you're comment about feel, sound and power is going to ring hollow unless you specify your price point and model.
Actually this is not correct. There was 2015-16 W212 E400 which is a "competitor" to W213 2017-18 E400, as W212 2012-14 E550 (2010-11 just no the same V8) is to W213 2019 E450 (...yes it is, as per mbusa.com, E450 is quicker 0-60) and as W212 E350 is to W213 E300 (and again as per mbusa.com, E300 is quicker 0-60). Also 2019 W213 E450 is priced as 2014 W212 E550 TTV8 was or well above (by about $6K when similarly equipped) 2014 W212 E350.
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