E300/E350 engine powerful enough?
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Joined: Jul 2010
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From: on my way
2012 CLS63
Hello. New to the forum. Looking at getting a new E300 or E350. Da wife won't let me get a E400 or E450 due to $$$. For those that have the E300 or E350 how do you feel about the 4 cylinder engine? Being older now I'm not much of a speed racer but would like a little spirited drive every now and then. I've heard that the 4 cylinder has problems pass on the freeway? Hard to get a real world feel for this while test driving. Would like to know what E300/E350 owners feel or have to say about this. Thanks for any input that you can provide. FYI last E I owned was 2016 with V6. Currently own a 2016 Infiniti Q70.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Good luck to ya!!
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 473
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From: Texas, Northern VA
Porsche Cayman S, Mercedes W213, Nissan Titan, BMW X5, Chevrolet Suburban
I imagine it's on about a par with eliminating the spare tire. In general, fuel usage, for a given engine/transmission combination, is proportional to weight. Using 60 pounds as an approximate weight of a full size tire and wheel spare, 4000 pounds as a reasonable sedan loaded weight, and 25 mpg as a base mpg, adding a spare would be expected to reduce mileage by 0.38 mpg, something MB probably cares about but none of us will be able to see or measure. The Start/Stop will probably save more than that in City driving, much less if anything during longer trips.
I was hoping that could be shut off in Settings somewhere. What aftermarket device did you use, and can it do anything else?
I was hoping that could be shut off in Settings somewhere. What aftermarket device did you use, and can it do anything else?
An unfortunately Mercedes expects you to turn it off each time you start the car an extra task I decided I didn't want to memorize. YMMV -- the button is readily accessible. But I've eliminated that need altogether.
I had read about the device while researching the e-class and ended up ordering it the same day that I took delivery of my new car. I've had it so long it's why I didn't quickly recall that aspect of 4 cylinder vs 6 cylinder. Installation allows the feature to be turned off. But note it doesn't remove start/stop meaning that if you occasionally want start/stop the feature can easily be turned back on. Their device doesn't do anything else. I've driven rentals with auto start/stop and these vehicles had larger engines. While I am not a fan of the feature generally, the larger engines masked the experience much better. In the Mercedes the experience to my mind was awful. I've had no regrets whatsoever about doing it.
If you call them and give them your zip code they can recommend a place to have it installed. Cost me 75 bucks for the install. It comes with instructions and if you're so inclined you might be able to do it yourself.
Back to the OP, take a test drive in the 300/350. Then take a test drive in the 450. Take a drive in the e53. And finally take a drive in the e63. What you'll see is that there are in fact noticeable performance differences as you move to larger and more powerful engines. The question isn't is the 300/350 as powerful as the others. The question is, whether it is powerful enough? My experience is that it is. I say that as someone who presently owns a Porsche as well as a 390 hp V8 pickup.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 310
Likes: 57
e300
i own a 2017 E300. Its plenty powerful. For the size of the car, the 4cyl is impressive. I wouldnt think so much about the engine, think about how the power is delivered. The 9G transmission in 1st gear is a low ratio gear and instantly pulls you. Low end torque feels very nice. On the highway, it pulls ok, i would knock some points on the highway. The 4cyl is the engine we are given, if you want that extra power its going to cost you close to 70k. Test drive other vehicles....other brands.....try the Lexus GS, they have a V6. See what you prefer. I think all cars are going to have plus's and minus's. This is a good engine overall, if you want more power its going to cost you alot of money.....
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,048
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From: Long Island, NY
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
MSRP E350: $54,050
MSRP E350 4matic: $56,550
MSRP E450 4matic: $61,550
Comparing "apples" to "apples" it is the 4matic: there the difference in price is $5,000, which I agree is substantial.
As I lease, with a residual of 60%, the difference is 40% of $5,000, an additional $2,000, with interest and tax, an addtiionial $2340, $65 a month. To me the smoothness of the V6 was worth it.
MSRP E350 4matic: $56,550
MSRP E450 4matic: $61,550
Comparing "apples" to "apples" it is the 4matic: there the difference in price is $5,000, which I agree is substantial.
As I lease, with a residual of 60%, the difference is 40% of $5,000, an additional $2,000, with interest and tax, an addtiionial $2340, $65 a month. To me the smoothness of the V6 was worth it.
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Super Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 641
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From: Charlotte, NC
2024 E450 AT Wagon, 2024 EQS450+ / Had: 2021 E350, 2019 E300, 2021 + 20 GLE350, 2019 E450 Wagon(s)
I had a 2017 E300 and now I have a 2019 E450. Honestly, about 90% of the time, the 4cyl was more than enough - around town with the 9g it feels downright quick. There were two things that bugged me - First, highway passing power from 50 to 80mph was pretty leisurely, it feels a bit gutless at those speeds. Second, the AC was not strong enough for a southern summer - it always felt overwhelmed by the heat and it took the car a long time to cool down. I strongly suspect that the 2020 E350 addresses both of those issue to some degree - I would not hesitate to get the 4cyl - I loved my 2017. The E450 - much much more powerful, but arguably much more than I need. The V6 plus the acoustic comfort package makes the E450 drive like a much different car - I love it, but the only reason I am in the 450 vs 350 is that wagons are V6 only. Drive what you like - the E350 is no punishment for sure - I felt good in mine every time I drove it.
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Joined: Oct 2019
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From: Bathurst, New Brunswick, Canada
2018 E400 Coupé
After these engines run their course, by 2026 at the latest Mercedes will be all electric.[/QUOTE]
WOW. All of a sudden I want an E63, I would love the music I could make with that.
WOW. All of a sudden I want an E63, I would love the music I could make with that.
Last edited by Arnold_R; Nov 3, 2019 at 06:54 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
My question is about the refinement aspect of the four cylinder. I would prefer a W222 because of differences in the exterior styling, ride quality, seat comfort, and quietness, however I really don't want that big of a car, in fact if the C was literally scaled S Class that is what I would want but if nothing else I find the ipad very inelegant. There has been much press that the E is a scaled down S so my question is is he four cylinder sufficiently refined that I wouldn't regret it from a NVH standpoint? While on this theme what about airmatic vs the luxury steel suspension?
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Joined: May 2018
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From: Long Island, NY
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Just my $.02.
I have driven both the C and E, but not the S. The S for me is out of the question: too big and too expensive. 80% of the time I drive alone, 18% with my wife and the balance 2% with a third or fourth person. So the E is perfect for me in. I am over 6'1: in height..
For me, the C is a Mercedes alone in fit and finish and exterior styling. The interior lacks the luxury of the E and S class and the ride is somewhat "jittery".. Frankly, I would rather be driving a fully equipped Honda Accord than a C class. It just does not drive like a Mercedes - there is no panache to it nothing that sets it apart. Plus the maintenance will be horrendous. Check out all the ratings and the C Class is the Mercedes that has the lowest repeat customer rating.
As to Air Suspension vs. Luxury styling: I believe the E class to have one of the best suspensions, if not the best, of any mid size car especially with the Luxury Styling which I have: to me the incremental difference that the air suspension may give is not worth the extra money.
Plus if you check the board there seems to be as many who like as dislike the ride with the air suspension and the air suspension seems to have mechanical problems while the Luxury Styling suspension is bullet proof.
My advice: If you want a truly "Mercedes ride" stick with the Luxury Styling and save money and avoid the air suspension. If you want "sporty" then you have Sport and Sport+. Also the Luxury Styling gives you more than a 1/2 of extra ground clearance vs. the Sport which is important in bad weather (snow) and parking with concrete stops.
Hope this helps.
I have driven both the C and E, but not the S. The S for me is out of the question: too big and too expensive. 80% of the time I drive alone, 18% with my wife and the balance 2% with a third or fourth person. So the E is perfect for me in. I am over 6'1: in height..
For me, the C is a Mercedes alone in fit and finish and exterior styling. The interior lacks the luxury of the E and S class and the ride is somewhat "jittery".. Frankly, I would rather be driving a fully equipped Honda Accord than a C class. It just does not drive like a Mercedes - there is no panache to it nothing that sets it apart. Plus the maintenance will be horrendous. Check out all the ratings and the C Class is the Mercedes that has the lowest repeat customer rating.
As to Air Suspension vs. Luxury styling: I believe the E class to have one of the best suspensions, if not the best, of any mid size car especially with the Luxury Styling which I have: to me the incremental difference that the air suspension may give is not worth the extra money.
Plus if you check the board there seems to be as many who like as dislike the ride with the air suspension and the air suspension seems to have mechanical problems while the Luxury Styling suspension is bullet proof.
My advice: If you want a truly "Mercedes ride" stick with the Luxury Styling and save money and avoid the air suspension. If you want "sporty" then you have Sport and Sport+. Also the Luxury Styling gives you more than a 1/2 of extra ground clearance vs. the Sport which is important in bad weather (snow) and parking with concrete stops.
Hope this helps.
Member
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 225
Likes: 32
From: Sweden
2019 E200 sedan
I have an e200 with even less power than the e300/350, but if I lived in the US I would choose the 450. The e220d and e200 are the mass sellers in Sweden making the prices on them reasonable. The 450 is nearly 50% more in price and combining that with increased taxes and fuel being very expensive it is not reasonable to go with it. But in the US where fuel is relatively cheap and the 450 is only a couple of thousand dollars more expensive its a no brainer. The 4 cylinder is smooth enough but pretty noisy, and my e200 is pretty slow. But I am used to weak cars because I live in europe, the 200 is not even seen as weak just average here... But you live in the country of v8s and cheap petrol so a v6tt is kind of your only option. Skimp a little on options and get the 450 I think it would be worth it, the low down torque, highway accelarating and just general smoothness and silence of the v6 is worth it.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2019
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From: SW Desert USA
2014 Jag F-Type vert, 2004 Volvo V70R
Its all up to you and what you will be comfortable with under your circumstances. The 2010 240 hp E was inadequate for us. The 2012 302 hp E was adequate. The 2019 360 hp E is more than adequate.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,975
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From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
Just my $.02.
I have driven both the C and E, but not the S. The S for me is out of the question: too big and too expensive. 80% of the time I drive alone, 18% with my wife and the balance 2% with a third or fourth person. So the E is perfect for me in. I am over 6'1: in height..
For me, the C is a Mercedes alone in fit and finish and exterior styling. The interior lacks the luxury of the E and S class and the ride is somewhat "jittery".. Frankly, I would rather be driving a fully equipped Honda Accord than a C class. It just does not drive like a Mercedes - there is no panache to it nothing that sets it apart. Plus the maintenance will be horrendous. Check out all the ratings and the C Class is the Mercedes that has the lowest repeat customer rating.
As to Air Suspension vs. Luxury styling: I believe the E class to have one of the best suspensions, if not the best, of any mid size car especially with the Luxury Styling which I have: to me the incremental difference that the air suspension may give is not worth the extra money.
Plus if you check the board there seems to be as many who like as dislike the ride with the air suspension and the air suspension seems to have mechanical problems while the Luxury Styling suspension is bullet proof.
My advice: If you want a truly "Mercedes ride" stick with the Luxury Styling and save money and avoid the air suspension. If you want "sporty" then you have Sport and Sport+. Also the Luxury Styling gives you more than a 1/2 of extra ground clearance vs. the Sport which is important in bad weather (snow) and parking with concrete stops.
Hope this helps.
I have driven both the C and E, but not the S. The S for me is out of the question: too big and too expensive. 80% of the time I drive alone, 18% with my wife and the balance 2% with a third or fourth person. So the E is perfect for me in. I am over 6'1: in height..
For me, the C is a Mercedes alone in fit and finish and exterior styling. The interior lacks the luxury of the E and S class and the ride is somewhat "jittery".. Frankly, I would rather be driving a fully equipped Honda Accord than a C class. It just does not drive like a Mercedes - there is no panache to it nothing that sets it apart. Plus the maintenance will be horrendous. Check out all the ratings and the C Class is the Mercedes that has the lowest repeat customer rating.
As to Air Suspension vs. Luxury styling: I believe the E class to have one of the best suspensions, if not the best, of any mid size car especially with the Luxury Styling which I have: to me the incremental difference that the air suspension may give is not worth the extra money.
Plus if you check the board there seems to be as many who like as dislike the ride with the air suspension and the air suspension seems to have mechanical problems while the Luxury Styling suspension is bullet proof.
My advice: If you want a truly "Mercedes ride" stick with the Luxury Styling and save money and avoid the air suspension. If you want "sporty" then you have Sport and Sport+. Also the Luxury Styling gives you more than a 1/2 of extra ground clearance vs. the Sport which is important in bad weather (snow) and parking with concrete stops.
Hope this helps.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 473
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From: Texas, Northern VA
Porsche Cayman S, Mercedes W213, Nissan Titan, BMW X5, Chevrolet Suburban
Great feedback on the suspension selection. That is what I had hoped. The remaining question is the weather the level of refinement of the four up to the standard of the rest of the car in terms of NVH? I would prefer it for the improved fuel economy but not at the expense of it notably diminishing the driving experience. I'm sure I would be satisfied with the power.
Make sure you test drive leaving the feature on so that you can experience it yourself. If I couldn't permanently defeat the feature I probably would have gotten an E400 or maybe even a Jaguar XF. After nearly a year and a half without that feature, nothing about the NVH concerns me. The car gets plenty of compliments and a few people that I've let drive it tell me that it feels powerful and sophisticated.
Pick what works for you.
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 677
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From: South Carolina
2020 MB E450 Estate, 2019 Kia Niro Touring
Concerning the Stop/Start "feature", I borrowed a 2018 E300 for a day from the dealership I'm buying from, never thought about this feature, and to my knowledge, it never stopped and restarted at stops. I'm certain the dealer wouldn't have done anything special like the mods described to eliminate this, as it appeared to just be a car from their loaner fleet. You're sure it can't be switched off somewhere (and remain off on restart)?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2018
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From: Long Island, NY
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
I know I am in the minority, but I love the stop/start: with the E450 the restart is not as jarring as it is with a 4 cylinder. I save gas, but most important I am polluting less which, at least to me, is important especially in a suburban/urban environment where I drive.
I want to help the environment when and where I can and a 1/100 of second delay in re-starting to me is an extremely small price to pay to help our environment.
I want to help the environment when and where I can and a 1/100 of second delay in re-starting to me is an extremely small price to pay to help our environment.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 473
Likes: 110
From: Texas, Northern VA
Porsche Cayman S, Mercedes W213, Nissan Titan, BMW X5, Chevrolet Suburban
Concerning the Stop/Start "feature", I borrowed a 2018 E300 for a day from the dealership I'm buying from, never thought about this feature, and to my knowledge, it never stopped and restarted at stops. I'm certain the dealer wouldn't have done anything special like the mods described to eliminate this, as it appeared to just be a car from their loaner fleet. You're sure it can't be switched off somewhere (and remain off on restart)?
The auto-stop function will therefore only be initiated if a number of conditions are met:
- 1. The combustion engine must have attained the necessary operating
parameters (e.g. the minimum coolant temperature). - 2. The relevant conditions relating to the vehicle must be met (e.g. sufficient voltage in the on-board electrical system, the interior climate has been regulated following the key start, the accumulator for the air suspension or brake system is sufficiently full). And the vehicle must be stationary, of course.
- 3. The relevant conditions relating to the driver must be met: the transmission selector lever must be set to D or N; no movement of the accelerator or the steering wheel; the driver's foot must be on the brake or the HOLD function must be active; the doors must be closed, the driver's seat belt must be fastened and the bonnet must be closed.
- 4. The ECO start/stop must not have been switched off via the ECO button.
- 5. Relevant speeds must have been exceeded after starting with the ignition key or during manoeuvring, for example.
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 677
Likes: 126
From: South Carolina
2020 MB E450 Estate, 2019 Kia Niro Touring
Concerning the Stop/Start, I just have to think it's tough on the starter and battery. Especially for short trips with frequent stops. I have to think that the alternator will not have had time to put the energy back in used to stop multiple times, and in the meantime, the air conditioner is not operating (except for fan and such, all using electrical power). While I normally wouldn't care about the delay, the idea that the car may hesitate to start at exactly the wrong time also bothers me. The fuel/pollution savings appears to be real, averaging 5-10%, but less if the car includes an electric motor to keep air conditioning and such operating, which I imagine MB does, only about 3%. Alternators take real power to operate and recharge the battery after high battery usage for such items.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2018
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From: Long Island, NY
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Actually No:
If you go to Mercedes research you will find that the starter motor has been specifically redesigned to accommodate the frequent start/stop built in.
Your Mercedes has been designed to run off the battery - in fact I believe there are two batteries. At a stop, the a/c will run for a few minutes before the motor turns back on. All of these have been programmed by Mercedes so as to eliminate worries about the battery running down.
This is my third car with auto/stop/start: my prior BMW 535i, my Mercedes E350 and my present E450. In over 90,000 total miles, the auto start has never failed, not even once, to start when either I took my foot off the brake or turned the steering wheel. It is as pretty "fail safe" as possible.
Remember that even without auto/stop/start, the accelerator, not mechanical, may not work, so I for one am not worried about that either - but you might be, but I hope not.
As you correctly point out the gas savings are not insignificant and of course the environmental concerns of idling for several minutes while a light turns from red to green are real and significant.
If you go to Mercedes research you will find that the starter motor has been specifically redesigned to accommodate the frequent start/stop built in.
Your Mercedes has been designed to run off the battery - in fact I believe there are two batteries. At a stop, the a/c will run for a few minutes before the motor turns back on. All of these have been programmed by Mercedes so as to eliminate worries about the battery running down.
This is my third car with auto/stop/start: my prior BMW 535i, my Mercedes E350 and my present E450. In over 90,000 total miles, the auto start has never failed, not even once, to start when either I took my foot off the brake or turned the steering wheel. It is as pretty "fail safe" as possible.
Remember that even without auto/stop/start, the accelerator, not mechanical, may not work, so I for one am not worried about that either - but you might be, but I hope not.
As you correctly point out the gas savings are not insignificant and of course the environmental concerns of idling for several minutes while a light turns from red to green are real and significant.
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Joined: Nov 2014
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.
99% of the time the start/stop feature never activates when the A/C is running which is 99% of the time. On that rare occasion that the A/C is not running start/stop doesn't engage unless my trip is longer than 2-3 miles (also rare).
I'm not sure what the exact requirements are for start/stop to engage, but the service manager once told me that there are 19 things that must be met. Perhaps one of the MB employees that post here can list them.
I'm not sure what the exact requirements are for start/stop to engage, but the service manager once told me that there are 19 things that must be met. Perhaps one of the MB employees that post here can list them.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 473
Likes: 110
From: Texas, Northern VA
Porsche Cayman S, Mercedes W213, Nissan Titan, BMW X5, Chevrolet Suburban
I know I am in the minority, but I love the stop/start: with the E450 the restart is not as jarring as it is with a 4 cylinder. I save gas, but most important I am polluting less which, at least to me, is important especially in a suburban/urban environment where I drive.
I want to help the environment when and where I can and a 1/100 of second delay in re-starting to me is an extremely small price to pay to help our environment.
I want to help the environment when and where I can and a 1/100 of second delay in re-starting to me is an extremely small price to pay to help our environment.
As for "our" environment, please note I am doing everything I can to "enlarge" my carbon footprint. With 4 cars in our household and 11.5 tons of HVAC in our home I hardly ever have to run the fireplace and the Air Conditioning simultaneously to offset others efforts to "help our environment"......except on Earth Day.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 574
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From: New Jersey
MB W213 E300 4MATIC Luxury Model
Great feedback on the suspension selection. That is what I had hoped. The remaining question is the weather the level of refinement of the four up to the standard of the rest of the car in terms of NVH? I would prefer it for the improved fuel economy but not at the expense of it notably diminishing the driving experience. I'm sure I would be satisfied with the power.
once I saw some of the posts on the little difference the airmatic had vs the luxury suspension I felt a whole lot better. I even went one step further and replaced the run flat tires with non run flat tires. Now that’s a sweet riding ride
Love my car, I stop and look back at it every time I get out of it. I have been a MB fan boy for almost 20 years now. A couple watches, couple jackets, 10+ hats, shirts and model cars of my previously owned ones. I need to get the E to add to my collection. I even have the very 1st MB license plate holder almost 20 years old and has transferred to each car. Still looking fairly new
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 473
Likes: 110
From: Texas, Northern VA
Porsche Cayman S, Mercedes W213, Nissan Titan, BMW X5, Chevrolet Suburban
99% of the time the start/stop feature never activates when the A/C is running which is 99% of the time. On that rare occasion that the A/C is not running start/stop doesn't engage unless my trip is longer than 2-3 miles (also rare).
I'm not sure what the exact requirements are for start/stop to engage, but the service manager once told me that there are 19 things that must be met. Perhaps one of the MB employees that post here can list them.
I'm not sure what the exact requirements are for start/stop to engage, but the service manager once told me that there are 19 things that must be met. Perhaps one of the MB employees that post here can list them.
99% seems very high but maybe things are environs are different in Florida. I purchased my E-Class in Houston in the spring (around 80 degrees or so temperature) and it auto stopped/started about half a dozen times before I got home. My friend in DC has a 4Matic 300 and he says it used to activate all the time before he added the device allowing him to turn it off. Having ridden with him when it happened at the first stop light after leaving his place I can attest to this.
