jhpmbusa

Additionally, you will not get KBB values. Dealerships do not go by KBB values, they go under (wholesale) as they need to make a profit.

Also, if you get into an accident during your 3 to X years of ownership, whether your fault or not, your trade in value is going to be even worse...

JTK44

Yes of course!


I had forgotten about that as well. Thanks for posting and of course you are correct.

Another point: It is extremely difficult to sell a 3 to 5 year old Mercedes because of the price being, for most people, about the same as a new mid level new car. There are few and far between people who can afford a $30,000 to $40,000 for a used car. The last thing I want is for strangers coming to my house to look at a Mercedes. What you wind up doing is trading the car in and there you are going to get "whacked".

When you run a business for office space you have either the choice to buy or rent. Unless there is a clear economic advantage, you are always better renting than tying up your money in a non income producing asset.

The same should be true with a car: buying, because you are putting money in a non productive asset and have taken on the risk of depreciation should be substantially cheaper, not more expensive than leasing. Even if leasing is slightly more expensive you are better off because of the uncertainty of the value of the car and the if in an accident the rapid depreciation of the car.

This from a financial, businessman's point of view, not an accountants who unfortunately often do not see the forest through the trees.

A decision to lease or buy should be made upon the cost over a period of time, not how GAAP would classify the lease for accounting purposes.


Just my $.02

teksurv

I always enjoy these lease vs. purchase discussions. Each have their advantages. Leases offer certain protections as has been stated. For several years I have leased as my wife insisted, with me always looking to move to the next in 2-3 years. In that case it makes no sense to purchase. Now, I just completed my three year lease of my E400 Coupe and I bought the car. There isn't anything (all brands considered) I care to get into. At the end of the day (tax benefits aside) it's an easy comparison. Always have a car payment and you are always under warranty (Lease). Buy it and keep it for six plus years, you could purchase an ELW ok.. Buy it and move on within 4 years and it seems to me money is being thrown away.

ua549

First, I am not an accountant and never was. My education is economics, finance and computer science. My expertise and work was consulting on treasury operations, banking and data communications. My clients ranged from Federal Reserve & Justice Department to banking & foreign governments.

Your cost of money figures are more than double at 2%. (I didn't check other calculations.) Current Federal 10-Year Bond interest rate is 0.78%. The Federal Fund Rate is 0.25%. I can borrow money for 1%, but I never borrow money for personal use.

Here are mainstream cars that have very long powertrain warranties six of which have bumper-to-bumper warranties longer than 4 years or 50,000 miles.

Code:

Brand B to B Powertrain
Acura 4/50,000 6/70,000
Buick 4/50,000 8/100,000
Cadillac 4/50,000 6/70,000
Genesis 5/60,000 10/100,000
Hyundai 5/60,000 10/100,000
Infinity 4/60,000 6/70,000
Jaguar 5/60,000 5/60,000
Kia 5/60.000 10/100,000
Lexus 4/50,000 6/70,000
Lincoln 4/50,000 6/70,000
Mitsubishi 5/60,000 10/100,000
Tesla 4/50,000 8/unlimited
Volkswagon 6/72,000 6/72,000

Edit - the table was in neat columns until forum formatting removed the spaces,

JTK44

Cost of money, or use of money, in the business world (do not know about a similar term where you worked - government and banks - would be) is the cost of using your money: If you have your money invested in a preferred stock that pays 5%, and you sell that stock to buy for cash a Mercedes, than your use of money is 5%: the 5% you no longer get. If you have it in a bank with a long term CD at 2%, then your cost of money is 2%. If you have your money in Treasury bonds at .78% then your cost of money is .78%. If it is "under a mattress" earning zero, then your cost of money is zero.

I think that except for those who have their money in Treasury bills, notes and/or bonds we are all getting at least 2% and probably higher.

We are not financing the car. But if we were, then the interest you pay is the cost of money.

I stand corrected: I see that bumper to bumper warranty on Kia, Hyundai and Genesis are 5 years/60,000 miles. The balance are 4/50,000 miles. Listing warranties for engine and/or drivetrain is not the bumper to bumper warranty I was writing about.

ua549

Of the 13 cars listed 6 have a 4/50,000 mile warranty and 1 has a 4/60,000 one, not the 10 you indicated. As usual you misrepresented the data with "The balance are 4/50,000 miles" to further your own point of view. Go back and review the warranty coverage. Do you see Volkswagon, Mitsubishi, Infinity and Jaguar? They do not have a 4/50,000 mile warranty.

Due to your fast and loose way with facts, I've added you to my ignore list.

JTK44

VW 4 year/50,000 miles not 6 years/72,000

see: https://www.vw.com/en/models/atlas-c...%3D11050%22%7D



Jaguar is 5/60,000 and I should have acknowledged that with the Korean brands.


I did not bother with Mitsubishi.

jhpmbusa

To each his own! i think this became more of a philosophical debate than a financial debate! It's whatever decision that let's you go to sleep at night at the end of the day.
Additionally, i think the concept of leasing is very new even in some parts of the world and still does not exist in some places.

I think we are all saying the same thing in different ways.

obviously the most popular 36 month lease would be cheaper than financing, but if you finance a vehicle for 60 - 72 months it will be cheaper, possibly.

but if you wanted to compare apples to apples, no one leases a vehicle for 60 months so both are correct!

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas !!!

ua549

I keep my cars for 6 years or when the warranty expires. Here are the last 3 cars I purchased for family members or myself.
2019 VW Jetta 6/72 factory warranty.
2018 MB E300 4/50 factory warranty + 2/20 bumper to bumper dealer warranty negotiated as part of the purchase price - 6 years total.
2018 MB S450 4/50 factory warranty + 2/20 bumper to bumper dealer warranty negotiated as part of purchase price - 6 years total.
2016 Hyundai 5/60 factory + 10/100 powertrain.

I'm buying 2 more cars (for cash) in 2021 when the kids get their licenses - probably Hyundai.

megaoctane

i live in Norway as well and ended up leasing the cars. Had a C class, then a Passat GTE estate and now E300de estate.
If you drive responsibly and the car hasn't had any weird reoccurring issues then keep it until the EQS or EQE arrives, or W214.
My personal experience is that a car driven responsibly and maintained correct will seldom give you problems. As long as you have had the car since it was new or when it had less than 50.000km driven.
Cars with high mileage or >1 previous owners can be tricky because you never know if they drove it as if they had stolen it.

mobster600

I don’t drive much. Why get rid of a car you bought brand new, only put 3k-5k per year. Serviced regularly. In 6 years, I’ll probably have 25k-30k miles. Seems insane to trade a car in for a new one with this little mileage. But I’m an outlier.

if you drive 12-15k miles and get to 75k+ miles then yes, trading in is a very reasonable thing to do. the downside is trading in any MB with high mileage that is 6 years old, your not getting much money in a trade in. I’d say you’ll get less then 20k for a E class, probably 15-18k. Food for thought.

JTK44

You have raised very valid points and really there is no "correct answer":

The problem, as I see it, are the cost of repairs out of warranty. For example my 2008 Boxster had 9,000 miles on it when the check light came on. I took it to the Porsche dealer and then said a pully and bearing on the Tiptronic wore out. This was the gear shift lever. Only 9,000 miles but out of warranty. Repair was $3,100. The oil change was $325. I had the work done and sold the car!

So if you drive only 3 to 5K miles per year as you do, and intend to keep the car 5 to 6 years, then leasing is not for you.

I just went to KBB.com and priced the wholesale value of the following car: 2014 E350 4matic, color silver in excellent condition: This is your 6 year old Mercedes.

• with 25,000 miles the value was $20,000
• with 50,000 miles the value was $18,000
• with 100,000 miles the value was $13,000

So unless you have very little mileage, as I did on my Boxster, whether your car has 25,000 miles or double that 50,000 miles the are worth pretty much the same. There was a big drop with excessive mileage, 100,000 miles.

Food for thought

JTK44

Just found this article and I found it interesting but depressing:

The 10 car brands that crash in value the fastest

The 6th worst was Mercedes and in particular the E and S Class.

see: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/1...160000840.html

mobster600

I can’t put a price on new technology and safety. In the last 6 years, collision systems can prevent accidents. I don’t think any 2014 car can detect a pedestrian walking or a car in front of you slamming on their brakes?

It’s unfortunate most German cars depreciate heavily but I’m not going to buy a 75k mile 6 year old E class for $20k. I’d buy a brand new Camry, Accord or Hyundai any day because of new technology and safety on new cars.