Courthaven

Hi all,

So my mom ordered a new E and it just came in today. When she ordered it, the pricing wasn't established yet, so they have not yet agreed on a final price.

Now, with the limited supply of cars I know there probably isn't much room to negotiate on the price of new cars, but has anyone had any luck being able to negotiate anything?

When I got mine it was pre-Covid so a little different environment.

Thanks

The G Man

No discount on my CPO when I bought it a year ago and I tried a few dealers and they were all the same price wise. They will also sell you very hard at the back end of the deal too with things like the extended warranty or paid maintenance….among other things. The factories in Germany will go into a slow down soon because of the lack of energy, I would think the price of German cars will go up in the near future instead of down.

Courthaven

Thanks. I have been trying to get her to tamper her expectations of being able to negotiate.

Roweraay

I recently bought my new 2022 All-terrain wagon, off the dealer lot. Straight MSRP. Of course the wagons are a rare beast and even finding one on a lot nearby, was a miracle.

ygmn

seems strange a dealer would do a custom order without agreeing on price etc.

Courthaven

The order was placed in August before they had the 2023 pricing for the new models.

sgawiser

Just to be clear, you have delivery of a 2023 E class? I thought they were still held at the VPC as is ours.

Courthaven

My mom got a call saying hers is with the dealer so I am supposed to go with her tomorrow for pickup. That's all I know since as I said I got my car at the end of 2018, so haven't been following the processes today. I wonder if it helps that we live in Baltimore... So near a VPC

sgawiser

Hope that is the indication that the 23 E class is released.

Mikey53

These are strange times. With the low supply of vehicles, if the folks who place the order walk away, the dealer won’t have any problem selling it to someone else.

CincyMBGuy

Anecdotally from what I can see for our dealership, every E350 we have at the VPC was shoved onto a truck yesterday and this morning. I haven't seen movement from 450s or 53s.

As to the OP's question, your mother shouldn't expect anything better than MSRP. If she backs out there is likely a line of buyers who will be there the same day to buy her car. E-Classes in all flavors have been in very short supply for almost 2 years now.

Courthaven

Oh and yep to clarify, it is a '23 that is at the dealership.

DFWdude

Negotiation (on price) is five-syllable term not in the vocabulary of most Mercedes-Benz Dealers. Most dealer personnel know only 3 and 4 syllable words.

I had to swallow my pride 22 years ago to buy my first MB, as I had always gotten "deals" on all my previous car purchases. If mom wants a deal on a Mercedes, she should wait for a car coming off lease in 2-3 years. Given the high depreciation rates of all German cars, she will get her "deal" on a half-price car at that time.

Besides, even the wealthiest people nowadays rent (lease) their new Mercedes-Benzes, rather than buy them outright. I did buy outright years ago, but I was one among the few, and I came to feel like a fool for doing so. I've paid cash for my current E-Class, but that was to acquire a lease-return from a dealer who got it from an auction by MB Financial. And even then, I paid the dealer's asking price (heavily discounted as it was).

Courthaven

Yeah, I figured chances were slim. Since she ordered it months ago and has been waiting there is no chance she's going to go for a pre-owned. She is just going to have to take it at MSRP. In 2006, she bought a brand new S500 and she sadly thinks they will be nice to her because of that, but I doubt it, lol.
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DFWdude

LOL... With 95%+ of MBs leased nowadays, the average dealer will see the same customer every second or third year as they trade-in their rental for a new rental.

Roweraay

I am probably in the “fool” category, since I purchased mine outright, rather than leasing it. I don’t intend to take a depreciation hit, and then sell it at a steep discount, since I will be keeping her for the long haul.

Courthaven

Don't worry, I bought mine too instead of leasing for the same reason.

DFWdude

This is my strategy, too. I will keep my 2016 W212 well beyond 15 years if it doesn't become a repair nightmare. At six years old, the W212 has just under 40,000 miles and runs like a top. We've kept the 2001 C-Class for the same reason. 21 years, although it's now showing its age.

The difference is I patiently waited two years and bought a $68,000 E-Class with only 17,000 miles for $8,000 less than the list price I paid for the new C-Class.

JTK44

Do not know what the future will bring - nobody does.

What I would be concerned with is that by 2030, 7 years, Mercedes will have ceased production of ICE cars - everything will be electric.

No one knows how that will reflect the resale prices of ICE cars.

With such uncertainty, a lease will protect you, albeit with an interest expense. On the other hand use of money today must be figured in at a minimum of 5%. So if the money factor (interest rate) is below 5%, I think the better move is to lease. At the end of 36/48 months, if the market for ICE cars has collapsed, a real possibility you are protected. If the market continues the way it has since Covid, you can just buy your car at the end of lease, as I did.

I do not see the downside of leasing. Preserving capital in uncertain times has real value and when possible should be done.

Hope this helps.

Alan Smithee

^ I am a proponent of leasing, but have zero concern about loss of value in the near term (5-10 years) due to ICE production ending. Eliminating supply does not eliminate demand; simple economics. With EV adoption in the US predicted to be 20-50% by 2030, Mercedes will effectively be surrendering up to 50% of potential new car sales by eliminating ICEs. Either Mercedes continues to sell ICEs beyond 2030 (note that in their press release on the subject, they leave this option open), or many of those 50% will look to a used/CPO Mercedes as an alternative, keeping resale value strong.

JTK44

I do not understand what you mean by losing 50% of the market and/or sales.

As I understand Mercedes, and all other manufacturers, they intend to convert their production of ICE to EV: Mercedes, Ford, etc. does not contemplate a reduction in the number of units produced but rather switching from ICE to EV.

As to your statement:That reminds of the story about the investor who in market turmoil says "he is not concerned as he is in the market for the long haul."

When translated into English, that means his portfolio is down 50% and he has no choice but to remain and hope that his positions recover - and hope is not an effective financial strategy.

In all due respect, I cannot imagine anyone who would have "no concern" about their the value of their car dropping by over 50% in 2 to 3 years. We are talking about a $75,000/80,000 investment in a car. I do not care how much money you have or how wealthy you are, no one wants to see their investment worth half in a few short years.

Addendum:

By 2030:

Ford 50% EV
GM 100% EV
VW 55%
BMW 50%
Volvo 100%
Honda 40% to 50%
Toyota 50%
Mazda 25%
Mercedes 100%

This can be verified by Googling "What percent (fill in manufacturers name) will be electric by 2030.

M. Schneider

Roweraay,
We're of a similar practice when it comes to autos. Execute the auto purchase as efficiently as possible which is often Paid in Full. .. And hold for 8 to 10 yrs or better. . Paid in Full is one of many time-honored purchase practices. . Autos are more an expenditure and less an investment... My .02 cents

A member of the Hurry Up & Wait Game. .. On order since June '22 a 2023 E450S4 All-Terrain USA. .... Selenite / Beige Nappa

Alan Smithee

First of all, the cars we are talking about are not investments. You and I lease, which means we fully expect they will depreciate roughly 50% in 3-4 years (54% RV for my All Terrain); in fact we are paying for exactly that, plus interest. So, no, not investments.

I will try to clarify: Mercedes can try to "switch" from ICE to EV by 2030 without "reduction in the number of units", but if ICEs represent 50% of US car sales in 2030, and Mercedes only sells EVs, it will have effectively cut themselves off from half of the new car buying public.

JTK44

I agree with you: Once the chip shortage is solved, and like all shortages and supply and demand, the shortage will be solved, all Manufacturers will increase their production of autos to pre Covid levels.

Where you and I disagree, and maybe not, is that I believe regardless of present intentions to be 50% to 100% EV's by 2030, , no manufacturer will sacrifice production to only produce EV's. The number of units produced will be either all EV's or a combination of EV's and ICE to achieve pre Covid levels.

Because I consider a $75,000/80,000 car an investment, I lease (as you do) to limit by loss. This is risk management which I use in all my investments - cars included. Again we may be saying the same thing.

I had a similar situation with the Ford MachE: I placed my order early for a First Edition. I have been leasing Ford Edge's for several years and Ford leases were extremely aggressive - favorable to the lessee. When it came time to take delivery for my FE, Ford did not offer a lease, only financing, thus shifting the burden of depreciation onto the buyer. Not knowing either the reliability of the MachE or what other competitors would be offering in 2/3 years, I decided to not take delivery.

Turned out, for many reasons but primarily the chip shortage, I made a mistake in not taking possession and just buying it outright. However, if I had to do it all over again, I again would not take possession on an unknown car in the first year of production. But that is me: I always try to manage risk.

Alan Smithee

You missed some important ones when discussing Mercedes: Lexus is planning to be 100% electric in the US by 2030, Audi is planning to be 100% electric by 2033, and of course Tesla is 100% electric.

Not to mention strong new players like Rivian, Lucid, Apple, etc.

Again, the most optimistic predictions are for only half of US new car sales to be electric in 2030. These manufacturers can't all maintain or increase sales volume from pre-COVID levels and sell 100% EVs in 2030. The numbers just do not work.

To bring this back on topic, it is my opinion that, with all of the aforementioned premium car manufacturers committed to a 100% EVs by 2030, and maybe half of the new car buying public buying EVs by 2030, there will be a very strong market for used ICE luxury vehicles in the near term.