Roweraay

I agree. My current Merc is my first Mercedes experience, and unlike Lexus and Acura etc that I am more familiar with, the dealership experience at Mercedes leaves a LOT to be desired. For Lexus and Acura, a loaner is automatically given, for all service appointments, while Mercedes seems to make a big hue and cry about loaners…..charging extra for a loaner would be lowering the bar a LOT in my mind. Not impressed at all with Mercedes !

Holtgraver

I am always offered a loaner at my Mercedes dealer and don't have to pay (except $2 state requirement). (Bobby Rahal Mercedes Wexford PA). Service is great. Car is washed on return (thoroughly), Returned of completed car is fast, and no long wait for bill.

If you want to wait, waiting area is great, - TV, WIFI, magazines. Has free coffee and pastries.

ua549

Same with Lokey Mercedes Benz of Clearwater FL.
When l was shopping for a new MB GLS, I got a similar GLS as a loaner instead of a C or GLC.

Roweraay

This is exactly what I’d expect from a Luxury car dealership, and mirrors my experience at prior Lexus and Acura dealerships. However, my experience in 2 different Merc dealers in Columbus, OH, was disappointing to say the least. I am now in the Seattle region, and hope to see a better experience here, to change my mind on Mercedes.

BoMB

I agree with you. Two dealerships near me now offer one price if you wait, and another price if you drop it off and take a loaner. It's simply "dis-incentive" marketing, LOL.

BoMB

Believe me my friend, I wish I could. Simply, just can't. If I could -- I would! LOL.

JTK44

Not really:

To change the oil if you do not have a lift, then you must suck the oil out, dispose of it and then replace it. Not a job many want to do.

Changing the filter in the engine compartment is a snap: the one behind the glove compartment the exact opposite.

Draining, changing and bleeding the brake system without a lift is a pain as well.

Most of this can be done at an indy shop: You will probably save more than 50% and it will cost you less then $300 vs. $800 at the dealer. Do it yourself and your parts are close to $100. So the additional incremental cost of an indy shop vs. doing it yourself is $200. Since I do not have a lift, (I do have a mechanics creeper!) getting on my back to do the brakes and the cabin filter plus sucking out the oil, paying some $200 to do this and save me several hours of work, is well worth it to me.

Just my $.02.

PS: On my John Deere lawn tractor I change the oil, filter, air filter and spark plug myself. I also remove the blades and have them sharpened and greasing of fittings.. As compared to work on the "B" schedule above, work on the John Deere is a "snap". Unlike my Mercedes everything is easy to get to. I am not adverse to doing maintenance myself - but only when it is relatively easy and fast. Plus I save $85 pick up and delivery charge, $135 labor charge. substantially on parts which I get on Amazon and 3 to 4 weeks wait for the work to be done at the local maintenance shop!

Bfgslkman

It's a bit of a pain, but no you don't. You just need to be able to jack the car high enough to remove the middle and rear engine undercovers to get to the drain plug. Adds about 10 mins to the job but the engine is designed to drain down

SpeedracerZ

Any mechanic shop can do this work for you. There's nothing special about the general maintenance on later model Mercedes cars they can't handle.

I do all the work on my cars myself unless I don't have time at the moment. In NY auto parts stores are required to take the old oil for free so that isn't an issue here. I haven't tried the brake fluid flush on my w213 yet but it looks straightforward. I've done this on my Corvette many times back when I used to track it. With the right tool you can do it yourself without a helper. Brakes same thing, nothing special, any shop can do them.

Holtgraver

I know you have to have service done to keep the warranty valid. My warranty extends all the way to 2029. Has anyone who used an Indy for all/most of the service used their warranty? Did you have trouble with Mercedes honoring the warranty?

Here is the wording in the Warranty agreement:

4.3 You are required to service Your Vehicle at the mileage intervals
specified in the Service Information Booklet for the Vehicle. These
services help assure the proper operation of the Vehicle.

4.4. Failure to follow the required Mercedes-Benz service maintenance
schedule using specified materials, fluids, and parts, at the
specified intervals could cause vehicle damage not covered by this
Agreement.

(Sounds like I could do far less service, I only drive 4000 miles per year).

cetialpha5

This is basically covered under Magnuson Moss which is frequently cited. There are other sites that are more explicit about what Magnuson-Moss covers or doesn't, but basically the dealer can't require you to get the work done at a Mercedes dealership, that's why there are still indy shops out there, otherwise they'd all go out of business waiting for the car warranties to expire. And that's why there's aftermarket parts which meet specs. And be careful with the intervals, it specifies both time and distance so if you only go 4k a year and the interval is 10k/1 year, you're still supposed to get it done within 1 year. Of course once the warranty expires, you can go longer on the interval. I basically change the oil at 8-10k but I've gone a few months longer when I wasn't driving as much due to covid. Mine are well past any warranty so it doesn't matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus...s_Warranty_Act

JTK44

This has been debated on other threads as well.

When I leased my car I put the pre paid maintenance, 20,000 miles or 2 years into my lease. (my lease was 36 months, 30K so I knew I would turning in car before the 30,000 miles service) Because the ppm was in my lease the cost was residualized, so my cost was was only 41% as my residual was 59%. So the ppm was at a 59% discount to MSRP.

Because of covid I did very little driving. At two years my car only had 12,000 miles on it - only 2,000 miles since the 10,000 mile, "A" service.

At 20,000 miles about 32 months of leasing I brought my car into the dealer for the "B" service, which they performed. A few days later the dealer called me and wanted me to pay for the service as I "failed to have it done at 2 years".

I told them they were absolutely nuts: I pre - paid for the service, I had not intention of paying for the service twice and I had the right to decide when to have it done: I told them I decided to have it done every 10,000 miles and not every year.

The dealer of course relented and that was the end of the story.

Others in other threads have taken the position to keep the warranty valid their car must be serviced every year or 10,000 miles which ever comes first.

I have decided to perform the service every 10,000 miles: If you look at the services to be done, oil, filter, cabin filters, etc. these are all mileage issues not time issues. (if you drive only 5,000 miles and change the oil every two years, synthetic oil will not go bad)

Bottom line: If cannot absorb any risk, and you want zero problems, then do the service every year. If you can live with a little risk, as I can (I ran my own business for many years and taking business risks happened daily) do the service every 10,000 miles and save yourself a bundle.

Remember to void a warranty claim during the warranty period, (50,000 miles or 48 months whichever comes first) the dealer must show that failure to change the oil and filter every year as opposed to every 10,000 miles was the direct result of the warranty claim.

IMO, this is impossible.

Of course there are exceptions: if you drive only 2,500 miles a year and after four years, 10,000 miles you first change your oil there might be a problem with a warranty claim. But again the failure to change the oil every year would have to shown by the dealer to be the cause of the warranty claim.

Under US law, a manufacturer cannot force you to service your car at their dealership. As long as the service is performed, it does not matter who does it: yourself, an indy shop or the dealer. That is the law in the US.

BTW, most warranty claims have nothing to do with the service: in my case it was in operative light switch and rear shocks. Oil and filter only effect a warranty claim about the engine. Engines and transmissions in today's cars are probably the most reliable components. It is the electronics, switch, AC, defrosters, etc. not the engines that are usually subject to warranty claims.

Hopes this helps.

OTEKAJ

FWIW, my extended warranty says nothing about dealer service being required to maintain warranty. Also, my local MB dealer in Kitchner Ontario charges $525 for a basic 'A' Service oil change and inspection for my 2018 E400 (Yes, it's only Monopoly Money to you US folks). I do this one myself for just under $100 using an oil extractor. Easy peasy.

cetialpha5

With the current exchange rate, that's about $387 which isn't too far out of line from US prices plus things tend to be more in Canada in general than the US.

Roweraay

I am a bit old-school, and change my oil every 5000 miles, disregarding the duration it takes to get there (I typically get to 5K miles in around 6 months, and 10K in a year). I just feel better when doing such 5K interval changes, since this is a turbo, direct-injected car. I know it is probably a complete waste of money, and the dealers are making a killing from a gullible customer like myself, but I do this for my personal peace of mind…..and also since I am old-school.

The car currently has around 8K miles on it, and my next change will happen in another 2K miles. The first service I did at the 5K mile mark was serious overkill…..the typical oil and filter change, plus the engine air filter change and a cabin air filter change. The next one at the 10K mile mark will be strictly A-service…….and by the time I get to the 20K mark, for the official B-service, I will already have done 3 services (a pseudo B-service at 5K, and 2 A-services at 10K and 15K).

JTK44

Without getting into a turmoil, suggest your review post #29 above.

What OTEKAJ was quoted is about double the going rate.

JTK44

I remember when cars were so inefficient we almost never had to change the oil: we just added a quart every 500 miles!

Then back in the 80's, oil changes were every 2,500 miles. When Synthetics came out that was extended to every 5,000 miles.

Today's engines run so much cleaner and efficiently that almost all manufacturers recommend an oil change every 7,500/10,000 miles - some even more like my Boxster.

Can you do any harm to you car changing the oil every 5,000 miles? Probably no. But like you I am "old school" and believe there is a fixed number of times a bolt or a drain plug can be removed before groves wear out, or it is improperly replaced stripping the threads, leaks begin, etc.

There was a recent post about the dealer forgetting to tighten the oil cap after an oil change, oil spilled out and the engine caught on fire and the car was totaled.

Again old school: the more times you do something - the greater the chance of something unplanned happening:

Remember the old saying: 'If it ain't broke don't fix it".

So I will continue to change my oil every 10K miles, limiting the number of times something can be done improperly on my car!

BoMB

I hear you, and believe me, if I could do even the most basic thing, I would. OK, maybe change a filter that's located in the glove box, I guess I could do that. However, I am very limited as to what I can do. I live in a condo and do not have my own garage. They are very strict as to people working on cars and doing things in common areas (parking lots, assigned spots, etc.). In addition, I have some health and mobility issues. My legs simply don't work like they used to. Couple all of that with the fact that I am simply just not mechanically inclined, LOL. For me, it's just easier, more convenient, and more comfortable to have a professional do it. I just find the experiences with the MB dealer horrible (bait and switch, different prices, no straight answers, etc.). Thanks again!

Roweraay

Stripping the bolts etc are of course possible. But especially since these kinds of wear-and-tear items are cheap and easy to replace, I would think it is improbable that a qualified mechanic would not easily spot a thread stripping, and hand the car back to a customer, post-service. I am paying premium prices to an MB dealership to do the service, and my expectation is that they are doing their due diligence before handing the car back to me.

And yes, changing the oil every 5000 miles in a Direct injected car, as opposed to the older port-injected versions, would not hurt the car one-bit, other than the owner spending more for those extra oil changes (essentially 10 more oil changes, by the time the vehicle gets to a 100K miles). I am personally willing to swallow the extra cost in those 10 extra A-services, by the time the car gets to 100K. Unlike their port-injected brethren, the more efficient direct injected engines, get real dirty, real fast, due the carbon deposits that are inherent in the direct injection process, and which would not have happened in the older, less-efficient, but cleaner port injection method. The whole engine sludge thing revolved around this, and despite any engineering hacks since then, this is still a problem in DI engines.

PS: Remember, that any kind of problems that Mercedes has to remedy in their cars, we need to separate into the warranty and post-warranty buckets. The post-warranty repairs/parts are revenue to the automaker, while the repairs/parts during warranty, are an expense. As an automaker, why would I curtail the future revenue from my installed base (the sold cars), by making them bullet-proof for 100s of 1000s of miles ? From a future revenue perspective, as an automaker, I would just want the car to get to the warranty-ending 50K mark (ending the period that any problems manifest as an expense for the automaker) and then it becomes a revenue-generator. These less frequent oil changes will manifest as future revenue generators, once we cross the 50K mark, and I bet there are such projections within the board-rooms of MB.

cetialpha5

That was a good price in #29, definitely below the going rate at other places. I'm not sure how familiar you are with Canada but everything seems more expensive over there vs the US. I think oil is almost double the cost in the US so I figured that was fair for Canada. Remember, they have to charge more to pay for their health care system. It's cheaper for stuff in the US but you pay through the roof for health care.

JTK44

Actually I think the opposite.

OEM have moved a great deal of their production to Canada: the main reason is the Canadian health care system which for employers is far less expensive than health care for union workers in the US.

cetialpha5

We're probably saying the same thing but you just thinking of it in the opposite way. Canadian health care is cheaper per capita than the US. But you pay for the US health care system separately. Canada pays for their health care through higher taxes so things are more expensive to pay for their health care even though their health care is cheaper than the US. The US just doesn't pay for health care through higher taxes on goods and services so things appear much cheaper in the US than Canada.

JTK44

To keep the record straight and apples to apples, the employees at the dealership who change the oil and not the same "professionals" who work on your care.

At the present normal rate of $200 plus, that is an additional $2,000 you have spent. To put that in perspective that is what I paid for my extended warranty from MB!


I really do not know what you are talking about. This is way above my pay grade. What I do know is that in today's engines, the tolerances are tighter, efficiency is greater and the engines run far cleaner that even 10 years ago. The interval of changing oil from every 2,000 miles to every 10,000 miles reflects this. [/QUOTE]


What you are not taking into consideration is that dealers love to do warranty work: dealer's make money on warranty work. If a dealer refuses to do the warranty work, you will take the car to an indy. So by not doing warranty work dealer's lose money.

Yes obviously the OEM prefer not to do warranty work. That is a loss for them.

But to jump to the conclusion that auto makers want their cars to last 50,000 miles and then fall apart: That makes no sense at all.

You are old school so you must remember how the Japanese auto makers "cleaned the clock" of the Big Three in the 80's and 90's: Why? Their cars didn't break!

Where I do agree is that present day Mercedes are no where as reliable as cars made in the 60's, 70's and even the 80's. Those Mercedes were built like tanks and lasted.

The fact that those Mercedes lasted was reflected in their resale value. That is no longer true.

Sorry to have gotten off the topic of this thread.

JTK44

Here is the way I look at it:

To run the Canadian health care per capita is under $600 per person.

In the US per capita is over $2300 per person.

see: https://www.latimes.com/science/stor...e-payer-system

and:

https://time.com/5759972/health-care...trative-costs/

In the US, OEM are unionized to a great degree. The cost of health car is a direct cost to the OEM in the US.

In Canada that health care cost is not a cost of the OEM.

Simply, the cost of labor in Canada to produce a car is significantly less than in the US, even if the hourly wage is higher because the cost of health care is not an expense.

Roweraay

The trick, for an automaker, is for the car to not “fall apart” right after the 50K threshold. That would be too blatant, and would deny them the alibi of plausible deniability….the trick is to do it in drips. The problems themselves may not leave us stranded on the side of the highway, but the little random things that go bad, all around the car, and will need to be replaced.

Even if the work is done by an Indy shop, most MB customers will opt to get OEM parts. MB/BMW OEM parts are not cheap by any means. Typical aftermarket/spares margins (unlike the much lower margins when selling the original car) are well ahove 80%+, fully burdened. All revenue generators. What one can clearly see is a steep dip in the value of German cars in particular, right after the warranty wraps up……not a coincidence !