Ok, Ok, Ok....

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Mar 12, 2026 | 03:32 PM
  #26  
Quote: In each case, did you move away before or after they retracted or did you stay near the car the whole time and then just move around again once they retracted? I suspect that if you don't move away from the detection zone they will not extend again as I believe it's the entering the zone that triggers the behavior. By the way, thank you for taking the time to do some actual testing and sharing your results.
I moved out the extension zone each time after opening the door, closing the door, and locking the door. I went back into the house and worked on vacation planning with reasonable confidence that the handles would stay extended for four minutes each cycle. The handles do seem to have consistency in the amount of time they stay extended. The events that trigger the handles to remain retracted are still mysterious and thus predicting if the handles will extend is still guesswork.

I do believe that you are on to something with the phone and watch in passive entry mode causing the handles to stay retracted after multiple cycles of premature extension. If I could predict when the handles would stop extending, then that would be the final piece which could be used to confirm your theory on E handle extension and lack thereof. We are so close, but yet so far away from getting the last piece.

In the first round of testing, I tested two variables simultaneously: the number of extension cycles until failure to extend, and the length of time between not opening the door and failure to extend. Since the extension time was consistently 4 minutes and the handles failed to extend on the fifth cycle, I took a guess that the handle algorithm is "extend 4 cycles for 4 minutes each cycle, then stop extending if the door hasn't been opened." It seemed like something engineers would come up with. But then on the subsequent test where I activated the handles immediately after they retracted, the handles only extended for 3 cycles. The next test, with zero wait time after retraction, the handles extended for only one cycle. I'm obviously missing some piece of the handle extension logic, but don't have any good guesses as to what I'm missing.
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Mar 12, 2026 | 04:17 PM
  #27  
Quote: I watched the VLE class unveiling with excitement and anticipation of the US market getting an Asia-style luxury min-van. The unveiled unit has retractable handles, some physical buttons on the steering wheel, and physical buttons below the entertainment screen. While Amazon music and Spotify were shown on the music apps, Apple Music was notable in its absence.
Here is a link to a MB write-up of the VLE van.
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Mar 12, 2026 | 04:19 PM
  #28  
Well, since it's continued on, I'll answer a question i've been asked in the past now that i have real data:

I'm in Ottawa, ON, for business this week and we had an ice storm into yesterday morning. When i went out to the car there was 1/3-1/2" of ice on the entire car. The door handles popped right out, broke through the ice no stress at all.
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Mar 12, 2026 | 05:40 PM
  #29  
Quote: I moved out the extension zone each time after opening the door, closing the door, and locking the door. I went back into the house and worked on vacation planning with reasonable confidence that the handles would stay extended for four minutes each cycle. The handles do seem to have consistency in the amount of time they stay extended. The events that trigger the handles to remain retracted are still mysterious and thus predicting if the handles will extend is still guesswork.

I do believe that you are on to something with the phone and watch in passive entry mode causing the handles to stay retracted after multiple cycles of premature extension. If I could predict when the handles would stop extending, then that would be the final piece which could be used to confirm your theory on E handle extension and lack thereof. We are so close, but yet so far away from getting the last piece.

In the first round of testing, I tested two variables simultaneously: the number of extension cycles until failure to extend, and the length of time between not opening the door and failure to extend. Since the extension time was consistently 4 minutes and the handles failed to extend on the fifth cycle, I took a guess that the handle algorithm is "extend 4 cycles for 4 minutes each cycle, then stop extending if the door hasn't been opened." It seemed like something engineers would come up with. But then on the subsequent test where I activated the handles immediately after they retracted, the handles only extended for 3 cycles. The next test, with zero wait time after retraction, the handles extended for only one cycle. I'm obviously missing some piece of the handle extension logic, but don't have any good guesses as to what I'm missing.
While it's great you are doing some testing to learn the exact parameters around the handle logic, I suspect you may be over thinking this. The handles will pop out if a valid key comes within range and will retract after some time if not used. They will continue pop out if a key comes in and out of range even if nobody opens the door, but will eventually stop responding to preserve battery and likely the handle mechanism. If that happens, you have to hit the unlock button on the key fob or touch the handle, preferably at the dimple to extend them. The solution for people who park their car close enough to their living space is to not carry a key in the house if possible and if using a digital key on phone to disable the passive unlock feature when at home. Absent doing that in those situations will result in the handles not always popping out automatically when at home.
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Mar 12, 2026 | 05:42 PM
  #30  
Quote: Well, since it's continued on, I'll answer a question i've been asked in the past now that i have real data:

I'm in Ottawa, ON, for business this week and we had an ice storm into yesterday morning. When i went out to the car there was 1/3-1/2" of ice on the entire car. The door handles popped right out, broke through the ice no stress at all.
That squashes all the naysayers that the handles will not work in freezing temps. I gotta imagine the Germans tested this before settling on the design.
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Mar 12, 2026 | 06:01 PM
  #31  
In my experience, when my W214 E450 sedan has been unused and parked in the garage for a few days, the handles will not extend automatically the next time when approached with a key fob but will extend only by touching/wiping the handles. Even though my garage is attached to the house, it is separated from the main living quarters by 20+ feet and the signal will also be blocked by a steel door. As such, it is unlikely that the handle extension/retraction mechanism will be triggered by the presence of the key fob/iphone/watch inside the house. May be the car disables the automatic extensio/retraction mechanism when the 12V battery level drops below a certain level.
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Mar 12, 2026 | 06:37 PM
  #32  
Quote: In my experience, when my W214 E450 sedan has been unused and parked in the garage for a few days, the handles will not extend automatically the next time when approached with a key fob but will extend only by touching/wiping the handles. Even though my garage is attached to the house, it is separated from the main living quarters by 20+ feet and the signal will also be blocked by a steel door. As such, it is unlikely that the handle extension/retraction mechanism will be triggered by the presence of the key fob/iphone/watch inside the house. May be the car disables the automatic extensio/retraction mechanism when the 12V battery level drops below a certain level.
Unless your walls are made of steel the door is of little consequence to the radio frequency the key fob or phone uses. At even 40-50 feet away and blocked by a wall if you have a key and are moving around the house in that proximity you are likely triggering the handles repeatedly and causing the car to eventually time out and stop. I have left my car for weeks and when I approach with a key, it always extends the handles. It has even done so when I got a warning on my phone app that the starter battery is low. The issue is not having a key within range. It's having a key that moves in and out of range repeatedly without ever operating a door handle. If you are not doing that then maybe your car is timing out like you suspect, but that has not been my experience in 2 years with a W214 in the garage.
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Mar 12, 2026 | 07:12 PM
  #33  
Quote: I watched the VLE class unveiling with excitement and anticipation of the US market getting an Asia-style luxury min-van. The unveiled unit has retractable handles, some physical buttons on the steering wheel, and physical buttons below the entertainment screen. While Amazon music and Spotify were shown on the music apps, Apple Music was notable in its absence.
That's interesting, because it's being reported that China has banned retractable handles starting in 2027. Doors must be openable (is that a word) mechanically from both inside and outside, or words to that effect. Will MB be making a different version for the Asian (Chinese) market?
https://www.npr.org/2026/02/03/nx-s1...r-door-handles
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Mar 13, 2026 | 06:21 PM
  #34  
Quote: While it's great you are doing some testing to learn the exact parameters around the handle logic, I suspect you may be over thinking this. The handles will pop out if a valid key comes within range and will retract after some time if not used. They will continue pop out if a key comes in and out of range even if nobody opens the door, but will eventually stop responding to preserve battery and likely the handle mechanism. If that happens, you have to hit the unlock button on the key fob or touch the handle, preferably at the dimple to extend them. The solution for people who park their car close enough to their living space is to not carry a key in the house if possible and if using a digital key on phone to disable the passive unlock feature when at home. Absent doing that in those situations will result in the handles not always popping out automatically when at home.
What you say makes sense. But the handles still remained retracted randomly in testing, so I can't confirm what you say is accurate, even though I believe you are right. It could still be a bug where the handles don't extend.

I will say that the handles have been extending automatically when I go in the garage now that passive entry is turned off on the digital keys.

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Mar 13, 2026 | 06:25 PM
  #35  
And now with complements to my 5th grade haiku class, an E-Class handle haiku:

Handles retracted
Automatic extension
Is a hope denied
Reply 2
Mar 13, 2026 | 07:13 PM
  #36  
Quote: That's interesting, because it's being reported that China has banned retractable handles starting in 2027. Doors must be openable (is that a word) mechanically from both inside and outside, or words to that effect. Will MB be making a different version for the Asian (Chinese) market?
https://www.npr.org/2026/02/03/nx-s1...r-door-handles
It looks like the new VLE will fit right in as an executive transport mini-van in China. It has the large grill, comfy second row chairs and a refrigerator in the console. A massive ugly front grill seems to be a requirement for Asian executive transport vans. I believe that Mercedes toned it down a bit to appeal to the US market. Believe it or not, that grille is rather attractive compared with the competition.

Mercedes already has a V-Class executive van in China, so they know the market. One doesn't need a powerful engine to be shuttled in Beijing traffic at 10 MPH. To be cost effective to operate in a Chinese city, it needs to be an EV. Mercedes might need to change to traditional door handles, and they can substitute a less powerful motor and the VLE is ready for China. There are already $50,000 EV executive mini-vans in China that are really nice. Ten years ago, the Chinese luxury van market was led by the Toyota Alphard and the Lexus LM. The Chinese manufacturers copied the Alphard, then made the copies more luxurious and less expensive. As of 2025, Mercedes were more refined than the Chinese domestic market EVs, and the Mercedes sound systems were better. The Chinese are already better at software and making a very cool entertainment screen. If the Chinese van is $50,000 and the Mercedes van is $100,000 and the refinement of the Chinese EV's is improving rapidly, I'd be worried about Chinese market share if I was Mercedes. For most people, a small amount of refinement won't be worth the premium that Mercedes will charge. There will always be a market in China for Maybach, G wagons, the S Class and VLE's. I'm just not sure that Mercedes can maintain more of the "main stream" market since Chinese vehicles are getting better rapidly. Market share percentage for Mercedes is sure to drop. I would imagine that the Mercedes strategy is to try to keep the volume the same as the Chinese auto market grows.

On my trip to China last summer, I was first driven in BYD EV sedans. Those are amazing for the price. Once we "upgraded" to the luxury EV mini-vans, those became our preferred mode of transportation. Our ride of choice was the Denza D9 van, which is not the top of the top, but still a great way to get around the city. See: DENZA D9 EV. I would pay $50,000 for a D9.

Now that long wheelbase limo sedans are practically dead in the US, this is a good time to trial an executive limo van in the USA. I fear luxury vans won't get traction in the US due to the "soccer mom" image, similar to the fate of wagons in the US. I'd be happy to have a garage with a VLE and an E53 wagon. I'd probably go with the hybrid version of the VLE unless they can get the projected range of the EV VLE to 400 miles up from 375 miles.

The VLE is a Chinese market vehicle that is made US ready by making the grill less gaudy and offering more power from the motor. Otherwise, the Asian executive van concept can work will in the US if people can overcome the 1980's Dodge Caravan image and think of it more as an S-Class and E-Class competitor.
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Mar 13, 2026 | 08:37 PM
  #37  
The Buick GL8 was the king of Chinese transportation forever. Spent six years of my life in the back of one - it was great. Now Lexus and MB and others are moving in.
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Mar 13, 2026 | 09:04 PM
  #38  
I just did a restaurant run. The handles didn't extend in the garage. When I returned to the car in the parking lot, the handles didn't want to come out and play either. Turning off passive entry on the digital keys, helped, but the handles are still random as far as extending automatically.
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Mar 13, 2026 | 10:21 PM
  #39  
Quote: The Buick GL8 was the king of Chinese transportation forever. Spent six years of my life in the back of one - it was great. Now Lexus and MB and others are moving in.
In 2003 we had a long wheelbase Audi A6 as a company limo in Shanghai. That was a great ride at the time. The Audi and Buick era lasted for a while. Alas, it is no more. I did some Buick GL8 and Lacrosse rides in China back in the day. I was always happy when a GL8 showed up. I didn't see them last year, and I missed them -- almost had to shed a tear. It's now Toyota, Lexus, Mercedes and the Chinese makers in the minivan limo business. The automotive landscape changes really fast in China.

DiDi which is like a Chinese Uber, now makes it easy to get a ride in a current model year, mid-sized BYD electric sedan. It is amazing how nice a $25,000 EV is in China. It is so much better now than riding in the 2010 Taxi Korean Corolla clones. But even better than DiDi, are the higher end ride services with the Denza D9 minivans. The last trip to China, I almost didn't want to leave. Although the Chinese have some doubts about their economy, as an outsider it is obvious how much normal living conditions are improving there. I first experienced a hotel robot in Beijing last year. It worked well. We tried a robot at a Marriott in Florida last month and the robot got stuck with our luggage cart in the elevator. When we freed it, the robot gave up at our hotel room and just stayed out in the hallway. If I had to bet on if China or the US wins the hotel robot race, I'd have to bet on China. It's a little sad considering that the US started the semiconductor and computer business and we had an ample head start on robotics.

One of the craziest car rides I experienced was a ride in a Corolla way out in the Chinese countryside. It was probably around 2012. We were on a long and straight two-lane road where you can see a mile ahead. The driver moves into the oncoming lane. There are two cars on the road as far as the eye can see. One is traveling towards us in its lane, the other is our car, in the same lane on the wrong side of the road driving straight at the other car. I was wondering why our driver was deciding to commit suicide by head-on collision. Then with a good three seconds to spare, he returns to our lane. We calmly inquire as to why he was driving the in the opposing lane. He responds that there is a toll camera in our lane and he avoided the toll by moving into oncoming traffic.

Some Chinese cars that I'd like to buy in the US are the extended wheelbase BMW 3 series and Audi A4. But it would have to be a long wheelbase S4 or 340ix, which probably doesn't exist in any market ...yet. Wouldn't an extended wheelbase S4 or 340iX be cool?

I'd really like the Mercedes VLE to come in AMG Lite form as in a VLE 53 PHEV, but we're lucky just to get the E53 wagon. The black Alcantara seating with red seatbelts in the VLE AMG Line preview provides some hope that a VLE 53 PHEV reaches the US shores someday. One thing I don't need is extending the VLE wheelbase another 6 inches in a VLS. The VLE is already 4 inches longer than a GLS.
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Mar 13, 2026 | 10:40 PM
  #40  
Selecting between a BMW X5, a Lucid Gravity and a Mercedes VLE is a toss-up. Add an AMG VLE 53 PHEV to the mix and the AMG VLE is a must have.
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Mar 17, 2026 | 08:32 PM
  #41  
Quote: The Buick GL8 was the king of Chinese transportation forever. Spent six years of my life in the back of one - it was great. Now Lexus and MB and others are moving in.
Here is the new Buick EV: A 646 HP Buick Minivan Arrives Overseas, And The U.S. Gets Left Out | Carscoops at about $70,000. *
Here's the similar extended range Buick: The Flagship Buick Minivan You Never Knew You Wanted | Carscoops. starting a little below $70,000.

Here is the Carscoops article on Lexus LM 2026 updates. It starts around $100,000: Lexus’ $100,000 Luxury Minivan Picks Up A Few Strange New Tricks | Carscoops

In the US, the market of Luxury minivans may be the Mercedes VLE only, which is too bad. These luxury vans make excellent sedan limo substitutes.
Reply 1
Mar 18, 2026 | 10:25 PM
  #42  
not sure if this is useful to any at all but tried it digital key with Google Wallet does not function as long as the following isn't met: location isn't on, bluetooth isn't on, flight mode is on. not sure if it is the same for apple wallet but it might be. The thinking is for those who have the handle constantly popping out at home moving with the phone, perhaps turn on flight mode and use wifi calling to deactivate digital key if don't want to turn off passive mode. Set a routine so that the phone automatically turns off flight mode when disconnected from wifi.
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