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Firstly, thank you for responding in an open-minded, respectful way.
Here is my take, Your question seems either rhetorical, sarcastic, or overly critical. If you're trying to make a point, this seems like an extreme way to do it. The answer is obviously that it would be ethically wrong, and no interpretation of your question leads to a different conclusion. It feels like a loaded and unanswerable question with no positive outcome. This insinuation is either intentional or misguided because nothing in SW20S' post implied anything untoward. Honestly, the inherent point in your scenario and the connection to the post it was directed at just doesn't make sense to me. I am struggling to find a correlation. It's like the punishment doesn't fit the crime scenario.
Its virtue signaling:
the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
There is obviously nothing immoral or wrong about feeling a sense of accomplishment when you meet a goal, everybody's goals are unique to them. People try and pretend that they live only for others and the good they can do in the world, but its a bunch of hogwash. He has mentioned many times that he would like to own an S Class, but he can't bring himself to buy one because of his hangups over the environment, etc. He's just justifying his own choices as being "morally superior". Very common with ultra left type people who tend to villify successful people (hence the dig at Elon Musk) and have a hard time not judging others for being motivated by their own interests.
The concept that someone can't take pride in being able to purchase a vehicle they want and ALSO take pride in and focus on being a positive member of the world and having impact on others is small one sided thinking.
That's right, my friend. Luxury is relative. I do applaud you for your articulation; it makes the thread a satisfying read.
However on the note about accomplishment and luxury things, I feel that some or most people associate the two concepts to equate happiness. This, however is momentary, and not long lasting as you have noted with the change of times and different cars.
Like any healthy relationship person to person, you appreciate the other for who they are and not what they do for you or how they are associated to you. Likewise, you appreciate the object, in this case the car's design, features, and your opportunity to utilize it. But that does not give you the right to say that it is a product of your accomplishment just because it is in your possession; my friend(s), that is a selfish way of looking at the material world, and it is also a deteriorating relationship that often, if not aware, can lead to materialism.
For me, my accomplishment is knowing how many opportunities to help others that have come my way, and how I was able to help them achieve their goals in their own way. The things that I acquire or possess, for my use and enjoyment is only temporary. If someone happens to think it is a luxury, an awesome thing, I say thank you on behalf of the artist, engineer, etc. that created the thing. If I created a mod that looks or sounds good (exhaust system), and gets a compliment, then I do appreciate the compliment myself and see that mod as a self accomplishment.
I am a car enthusiast, and I do get excited with various car designs and features, but I have little attention to who actually owns the finished product. I do appreciate their experiences of the product.
I feel I addressed/acknowledged this sentiment here: https://mbworld.org/forums/eqs/89243...ml#post8985860. But since we are taking deep dives into the realm of the philosophical and psychology, which is my realm, here is my take on the sentiments from your post: I hear you, and I understand the sentiment behind your statement. It's a good reminder to keep things in perspective.
To put it in my own words, I think your inherent points are: 1. Valuing people for who they are: Just like we appreciate our friends for their personalities, not just for what they can do for us, we should appreciate things for their own qualities, not just as status symbols. 2. Not confusing ownership with achievement: Having nice things is great, but it doesn't automatically make someone successful. It's more about appreciating what we have, rather than feeling entitled because we own it. 3. Avoiding the trap of materialism: Getting too caught up in material things can make us lose sight of what's truly important in life, like relationships and experiences. 4. Changing how we see stuff: Instead of viewing possessions as trophies, we should see them for the enjoyment they bring us, whether it's a beautiful car or a favorite book.
Does that capture the essence of what you were saying?
I appreciate the spirit that the post was received and the level of introspection.
1) "Flashing crosswalk lights are no match for flashy cars, according to a new UNLV study which found that drivers of expensive cars are least likely to stop for crossing pedestrians." https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...%20pedestrians.
2) Personally the whole climate change issue has ruined it for me which is doubly frustrating now that I have more disposable income than in the past, but I have contributed my share to the climate crisis and can't pretend like it is not an issue, so I am willing to take some penance for that. Part of that penance is driving my wife's Kia Niro EV. It's certainly not the lap of luxury and trust me no ego strokes driving it but it is super efficient 4+ mpkwh and it's a good car, so there is that.
1 - When I am in one of the kids cars or one of our company cars LESS of the vagrants on the road waive their beggar sign at my windshield. Fact.
2 - Thank god for Global Warming, if not for Global Warming we would not have a midwest or Rocky Mountains. In your honor, I will do a few full redline pulls on my way to the clinic today, doing my part to be sure we have a long growing season (granted, as of yesterday Oil is no longer international traded in US dollars as our current POTUS has destroyed the value of the US dollar). - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shift...052445179.html
At the end of the day, if your “morality” involves passing judgement on the choices of others…you’re not actually moral at all. It’s all just about stroking your own ego. Talking about how you do penance and deny yourselves what you want because you care so deeply about others is no different than buying the car for the purpose of impressing others. Both are about trying to control how others view you.
I've really enjoyed the variety of perspectives shared in this thread. It's like a Rorschach test where everyone sees something unique in the same thing.
That said, I've noticed a bit of a pattern where some responses seem to focus more on questioning the motives behind a post, rather than the content of the post itself. While it's natural to be curious about why someone thinks the way they do, I think we can all agree that it's the ideas themselves that truly matter in this kind of discussion.
So, going forward, how about we try to focus on understanding each other's viewpoints, regardless of where they're coming from?
Think of it like a potluck – we might not always like every dish, but we can still appreciate (or at the very least respect) the effort and the unique flavors each person brings to the table.
And I have no problem with hybrids or EVs, I own a PHEV which we love, and I am seriously considering an EV to replace my S Class. Its just people who make such purchases to virtue signal that they are a morally superior person that is distasteful. Exactly the same as someone buying a flashy car and thinking that somehow makes them special to other people. Buy what is special to you.
Oddly, every place I have worked (for years now) including current (that I own)...I never, not ever ask anyone "How are you" or ask someone "Why did you get that" - end of the day, in both instances I generally do not care. As far as conspicuous consumption - some staff have over the years made joke about the fact that we have a cleaning person at the office who also cleans our home....the same people who complain about "having a maid" seem to not care that like them - I gave the maid a job (and she is a rock star!). If no one buys a Luxury Car or Super Car or boat, plane, bicycle or what ever....well, entire industries will die. The fact is, 100% of the US (and world) economies are "Trickle down" scenarios - no matter how much someone wants to pretend it isnt.
So if you fraudulently took Covid funds to get the money to buy it, owning it would be an accomplishment?
Originally Posted by MBNUT1
The message I am getting is that the ability to purchase something equals accomplishment. If that isn't the message, I'm happy to stand corrected.
Originally Posted by SW20S
Its virtue signaling:
There is obviously nothing immoral or wrong about feeling a sense of accomplishment when you meet a goal, everybody's goals are unique to them. People try and pretend that they live only for others and the good they can do in the world, but its a bunch of hogwash. He has mentioned many times that he would like to own an S Class, but he can't bring himself to buy one because of his hangups over the environment, etc. He's just justifying his own choices as being "morally superior". Very common with ultra left type people who tend to villify successful people (hence the dig at Elon Musk) and have a hard time not judging others for being motivated by their own interests.
The concept that someone can't take pride in being able to purchase a vehicle they want and ALSO take pride in and focus on being a positive member of the world and having impact on others is small one sided thinking.
To maintain a productive discussion, I'll focus on objective observations. However, I'd like to make a final point on this aspect of the thread that has been thoroughly discussed.
The statement '
Originally Posted by MBNUT1
So if you fraudulently took Covid funds to get the money to buy it, owning it would be an accomplishment?
' misrepresents the original point, which wasn't about equating purchasing power with accomplishment but rather exploring the personal significance and emotions tied to owning a luxury car. The argument then veers off into unrelated territory, making assumptions about the motivations of others. This is irrelevant to the original discussion and creates a divisive and unproductive atmosphere, intentional or not.
Focusing on the actual content of someone's message rather than attributing motives or generalizing their beliefs. That is what should happen. (This is my Thread and I can if I want to!)
Oddly, every place I have worked (for years now) including current (that I own)...I never, not ever ask anyone "How are you" or ask someone "Why did you get that" - end of the day, in both instances I generally do not care. As far as conspicuous consumption - some staff have over the years made joke about the fact that we have a cleaning person at the office who also cleans our home....the same people who complain about "having a maid" seem to not care that like them - I gave the maid a job (and she is a rock star!). If no one buys a Luxury Car or Super Car or boat, plane, bicycle or what ever....well, entire industries will die. The fact is, 100% of the US (and world) economies are "Trickle down" scenarios - no matter how much someone wants to pretend it isnt.
Love it! I appreciate the honest perspective. My take: You bought it; it's your money, your reasons, your risk, your reward. Win or lose, the choice was yours.
When ever I want to "Save the Earth" I ride one of my (many) bicycles. The image attached is my "Hybrid". It costs more than most used cars...it produced in what is most certainly a terrible slave labor filled factory in China where global pollution is not even an after thought. The batteries are even more filthy than the carbon frame...strip mines in multiple third world nations with even worse labor laws than China. Then, when I did charge it up I know for a fact that the electricity comes from coal....coal that is shipped in via train from far away places as the Enviro-Nuts are so hell bent on getting rid of the very clean and safe nuke power plants...... :-)
I was only responding to the comment "you earned" and by way of an extreme example showing that there are those who roll in an S Class we can collectively agree most certainly didn't. That doesn't mean that there aren't those who drive them didn't make contributions that entitled them to the privilege.
Focusing the the car I think the EQS is the best luxury car available today.
It is quiet, has a smooth powertrain, rides well, handles well, safe, I have grown to like the styling particularly with the hyper-screen, love the versatility of the hatch and it has much lower carbon emissions over it's life cycle than it's equivalent ICE powered car (particularly true if the electricity is renewably sourced). I showed one to my wife on the showroom floor and she laughed at how big it is (she thinks my E- Class is too big) and I tend to agree that it is too big for our needs but never say never.
I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Think I may go back and reread Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. By the way...l.don't know if I've told you, I love my EQS!
Focusing the the car I think the EQS is the best luxury car available today.
It is quiet, has a smooth powertrain, rides well, handles well, safe, I have grown to like the styling particularly with the hyper-screen, love the versatility of the hatch and it has much lower carbon emissions over it's life cycle than it's equivalent ICE powered car (particularly true if the electricity is renewably sourced). I showed one to my wife on the showroom floor and she laughed at how big it is (she thinks my E- Class is too big) and I tend to agree that it is too big for our needs but never say never.
For me (as I have mentioned) the issue with the EQS is styling. I have to love the way a car looks, I love how my S Class looks, but I just don’t like the EQS styling.
I think classically elegant looks are a big part of what would make a luxury car the best one on the road. Not a lot of people dislike the looks of an S Class, lots of people dislike the EQS. This is an issue with the 7/i7 as well.
For me (as I have mentioned) the issue with the EQS is styling. I have to love the way a car looks, I love how my S Class looks, but I just don’t like the EQS styling.
I think classically elegant looks are a big part of what would make a luxury car the best one on the road. Not a lot of people dislike the looks of an S Class, lots of people dislike the EQS. This is an issue with the 7/i7 as well.
Personally, I like the styling....but it is different. No question the W222 if fabulous. Too bad you can't spend some quality time with an EQS. It really is a fabulous car to drive around in. My DD experience is second to none, although I did love that M550!
Personally, I like the styling....but it is different. No question the W222 if fabulous. Too bad you can't spend some quality time with an EQS. It really is a fabulous car to drive around in. My DD experience is second to none, although I did love that M550!
Oh I have no doubt I would love how it drives. I’ve driven them. I feel the same way about the i7, I like its looks but lots of people don’t. I’d like to in general not be driving around in something a large proportion of the public thinks is ugly, even if I like it lol. That’s what always brings me back to a W223.
Hopefully the next generations of these cars will be less polarizing.
I feel I addressed/acknowledged this sentiment here: https://mbworld.org/forums/eqs/89243...ml#post8985860. But since we are taking deep dives into the realm of the philosophical and psychology, which is my realm, here is my take on the sentiments from your post: I hear you, and I understand the sentiment behind your statement. It's a good reminder to keep things in perspective.
To put it in my own words, I think your inherent points are: 1. Valuing people for who they are: Just like we appreciate our friends for their personalities, not just for what they can do for us, we should appreciate things for their own qualities, not just as status symbols. 2. Not confusing ownership with achievement: Having nice things is great, but it doesn't automatically make someone successful. It's more about appreciating what we have, rather than feeling entitled because we own it. 3. Avoiding the trap of materialism: Getting too caught up in material things can make us lose sight of what's truly important in life, like relationships and experiences. 4. Changing how we see stuff: Instead of viewing possessions as trophies, we should see them for the enjoyment they bring us, whether it's a beautiful car or a favorite book.
Does that capture the essence of what you were saying?
Thank you, JBoxer, for the summary. Additionally, perhaps I should have preface my discussion to let some people check their ego at the door before entering. I shoot from the hip, and if one's ego is offended, so be it. Let me tell you a story:
In our US culture, and perhaps other cultures around the world, we reward our children's accomplishments with hugs, love, and that which is quantifiable, material things such as a paper certificate of achievement, or a toy or a piece of candy. As our children grow up, the rewards become more complex such as a vacation or even a car. You see, we condition our children's accomplishment with, among love and healthy relationships, material thing. That's not to say there is anything wrong or immortal about accomplishment = reward of a material thing.
However, there's a small side note I want to raise before I move on to the next chapter. Few of us teach our children to respect, and take care of the material things that are given to them. Some tree huggers may even extend that to mother Earth, but I will leave that for another discussion. Therefore, they fail to appreciate the creator of those things be it a remote control car, a Barbie doll or doll house, an iphone, etc. We tell them, it's a "thing" and not a person; therefore, it does not deserve the same treatment. This is true that we value people over material things, and I don't think anyone would disagree. However, the lack of respect or appreciation for the "creator" of those finer things often times lead to disrespect for other people's properties and manifest themselves in envy as seen in "haters" and vandalism. I hope you get the idea.
In this next chapter, the chap is on his own. He has dreamed of finer things in life, and he finally has accomplished his goals and some bucket list items. He has resources (money). He rewards himself with the finer things, an S-class, an RR, or a McLaren. He is entitled to think on his own, has his POV, and no one is going to tell him otherwise. The things he has possess is a testament to his hard work and his accomplishments. He experiences all the details and emotions that JBoxer has explained in detail in many different ways and more.
Capitalism recognizes this and capitalizes on it. The luxury car market is not stupid. The marketing materials aims squarely on making a buck off of this psychological paradigm. If you are not seeing it, then you need to do more reflection and introspection. We are all guilty of what JBoxer has described in his responses. Why? Because we were conditioned as children to respond that way. It is not wrong or right, good or bad. It simply is the environment in which as children, teens, and some into adulthood, we were conditioned to respond to such behavior. However, life has another chapter after this.
This chapter, perhaps not the final chapter, is a chapter that motivates him to seek a greater good for himself and for humanity as whole. He questions his own existence and what he can do help others see not the shadows but the forces of reality. If you have gotten this far in my boring story, thanks for tuning in. In JBoxers last paragraph of his original post, he is looking for something in this chapter of a man's life. "There you have it. The luxury car buyer isn't just purchasing a car; they're buying into a fantasy, an escape, a way to express themselves, and perhaps even indulge in a little harmless vanity. And who can blame them? After all, life's too short to drive a boring car. So, where do you stand? I bet you're thinking about it now!" He knows that all men have experiences mentioned, and if you didn't, you're lying to yourself. However, JBoxer is is interesting in what others have to say. For those that name call or label, you really need to check your ego at the door in this thread because you're not at this chapter yet.
If we didn't realize the environment in which we were conditioned growing up, it is that much harder for us to realize the current environment in which we are experiencing. So while we all have experienced luxury car buyer paradigm at one or more points in our lives, no one is judging that it's a bad thing. Everyone is entitled to the way they feel, act, and do. Just like a teenager who is crying her heart out and thinks the world is ending because she can't go to her favorite concert artist. However, I realize that not all of us are at the same chapter.
You don't have to be part of the solution, that's often futile, but you don't have to add to the problem. If you aren't furthering the conversation you are detracting from it. Don't do that!
Silence 🤫 is golden, negativity is lead!
Feel free to insert your favorite Saturday morning, life-lesson commercial!
Sorry, calling someone out for a holier than thou attitude is not “contributing to the problem”; the problem was the attitude in the first place. “Check your ego at the door before you talk to me” is all ego lol.
Someone hasn’t “not yet reached a higher plane of maturity” because they feel a sense of accomplishment in reaching the goal of being able to buy a car they want. It’s just ego stroking BS.
If someone isn’t motivated by a purchase of a car and doesn’t feel a satisfaction or a sense of accomplishment when they are able to buy it that’s fine. Just say so. A 3 paragraph diatribe about how that’s immature and how a poster is “beyond such things” is just all the things I already described it as.
Sorry, calling someone out for a holier than thou attitude is not “contributing to the problem”; the problem was the attitude in the first place. “Check your ego at the door before you talk to me” is all ego lol.
Someone hasn’t “not yet reached a higher plane of maturity” because they feel a sense of accomplishment in reaching the goal of being able to buy a car they want. It’s just ego stroking BS.
If someone isn’t motivated by a purchase of a car and doesn’t feel a satisfaction or a sense of accomplishment when they are able to buy it that’s fine. Just say so. A 3 paragraph diatribe about how that’s immature and how a poster is “beyond such things” is just all the things I already described it as.
So, look, I get it; knee-jerk reactions happen. When someone posted a message that misrepresented your reasonable and honest opinion, I jumped in to defend your message. Look, we may not be singing campfire songs together any time soon, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize a blatant misrepresentation when I see one. Disagreeing is totally fine, and defending yourself when you're being twisted is human nature. Heck, I've disagreed with plenty of folks in this thread alone, and they've all responded respectfully. We've even had some heated debates in the past, which could have been handled better – on both sides.
I'm not here to be the arbiter of truth, justice, and the American way, and I'm sure you'll have a snappy comeback ready. But it's how you deliver your message that sometimes rubs others the wrong way. Your response to me was fairly civil, just a minor disagreement, but with others, you tend to show less restraint, and things can get a little... heated and down in the mud. There have been times when I've responded off the cuff when someone was in disagreement, but when I reflected on how I handled the situation, I realized that I often ended up looking like a defensive A-hole who always thought I was right. Anyone in defiance of my perspective, especially when the message seemed pointed, I felt like they deserved a strong tongue lashing instead of an objective retort.
You do you, and I doubt my two cents will change much. But I know you're capable of thoughtful and respectful discourse because I've seen it from you before. Let's try to keep things constructive, yeah? We can challenge each other's ideas without needing to scorch the earth in the process. #donthatecongratulate
06-14-2024, 11:26 AM
