E55Greasemonkey

Now we're getting closer.....

CyberBertie

Isn’t that a lemon?

E55Greasemonkey

They all are!

JD101b

I'd trust that truck if I had it from new, drove it like I do, obsessively take care of it like I do, etc.

Most people, even people who own nice cars, don't take great care of them. Assume this car has 150k miles of abuse on it and act accordingly.

CyberBertie

First positive person here maybe lol, what would you pay for it knowing what you do from this thread assuming it has been meticulously maintained?

E55Greasemonkey

Understandably, you don't want to insult your friend with a low offer, but keep in mind, most people think their cars are worth more than they are.

Another point about proper maintenance, if the transmission service hasn't been performed every 40k miles since new, you are nearing the end of it's service life. If it has, the 722.6 is good for around 250k miles, maybe a little less in a heavy G.

shiann

My view of the G is it's something that you have to want/love. Most won't ever be willing to make the compromises it takes to own one/live with one.

- It's not a practical car for it's size - it's big but it's pretty small inside.
- It doesn't drive well, steering wise at all.
- It's not comfortable - especially the G55 OE suspension. It's like an import with cheap coilovers stiff but in all the wrong ways. Replacing with Fox, King, Ohlin shocks with softer springs is a MUST.
- It's terrible on gas - think 13mpg at BEST
- Any drivetrain repairs will be costly - 10k+ to swap an axle, 3-5k for replacing bearings and seals, etc
- The M113k + 5G transmission are pretty good reliability wise, but still have their issues. The M113k is of course less reliable than the M113 (non supercharged)
- The interior is dated and just old looking/feeling. You may like this or not.
- The power is fun but not really useful. It's fast for what it is, but not fast overall. 0-60 is in the 5-6s range, and flooring it will cause swaying and lurching all over the place.
- Ergonomics are an acquired taste. Seats are uncomfortable, driving position is strange, pedal placement is weird, visibility is great but rear visibility is terrible, etc.

I think the closest vehicle would be something like a JK Jeep with a 500hp supercharged V8, and a nicer, more comfortable interior. And all repairs, service, modifications, parts are 2-10x more expensive.

The G55 I feel is the best G to get if you're ok with the old interior. The engine/trans is less capable than the newer 63 engines, but more reliable overall. At 140k miles, you're up for some heavy maintenance with replacing a bunch of seals, valve cover gaskets, coils, plugs, rear main seal, oil pan gasket, etc. Then bring into question the service history of the axles, transfer case, differentials, etc. This does not account for rust issues in all the common spots (under the doors, top of the doors, all around the windshield, lower rocker panels, around the tail lights, the rear shock and spring mounts, etc). And also your suspension and steering bushings are probably all shot also if they haven't been replaced.

I viewed it like this. I love the look of the G and needed a good all weather vehicle to get me anywhere and not get stuck. Needed a family SUV type vehicle and wasn't willing to compromise true 4WD. Locking Diffs are a plus. The cost was right in my wheel house of ~40k (pre-covid) and you don't get many fun to drive SUV's in that price range that won't depreciate like rocks in the next few years (thinking the Cayenne, Range Rovers, LR3's, BMW X cars, etc). The G's hold their value exceptionally well. This is probably due to the image and the normal expected buyers, but the value is still there if you can find one at a good value.

If the example you're looking at is a clean title, no accident, low owner count, has lots of maintenance history, checks out at a shop that knows G's, and tickles your fancy, then low to mid 40's may be a good place to start. That's what the going rate of the truck is today, regardless of what wholesale auction pricing is and/or what dealers offer for trade in. Zero chance you'll be able to land a G55 in the 20's or 30's given the current market unless it has 200k+ miles or a terrible history.

CyberBertie

Thanks for the transmission insight. Good point. Would I expect the engine to have a similar life expectancy? 250k? Definitely hyper focused on drivetrain, transmission, and engine in conjunction with everything listed in the below post. Sounds like a crap shoot and I need it looked at first to understand. I have a PPI Mercedes JSP that I will reach out to on Monday to setup a time. Seller said he’s all good with it getting checked out for easing my mind and setting a level of comfort. What should I expect from a PPI cost perspective?

chassis

@CyberBertie What is your willingness to fuel the expense needed for a 140k mile AMG G-Wagen? You haven't answered this.

It's a cool car. And will take cash to keep it going. Can you support the cash that will be burned by this vehicle? If yes, proceed. All of the warnings and cautions don't matter if money is no object.

CyberBertie

Thanks, for the detailed response and thought. Really appreciate everyone taking the time.

We are actually into the utilitarian/Spartan look and interior of the G Wagon even if dated doesn’t really bother us (can always upgrade the center screen to the extent that is relevant and important to us).

With respect to the suspension upgrade, I’ll ask the seller, but what would that generally cost? I’ve seen a lot of folks here who have the Fox installed. To the extent the suspension is shot, would it just be worth to upgrade rather than replace with OEM? In my response above, hyper focused on those big ticket items like rust, drivetrain, transmission, and engine in general. Im working on PPI this week.

Agree on price, I was envisioning something in the low to mid 40s at most. Depending on what materializes from the PPI (what does this even cost, is it CPO checklist level of detail), I may start in the low 40s and gauge his reaction.

Has anyone had the new steering wheel installed on their G55 and had complications from a power/12v perspective and no having the buttons work? Also, anyone have LED installed in exterior that prop malfunction notifications on dashboard?

CyberBertie

That’s a good question. It would be wise to just buy another Jeep Rubicon with lifetime warranty and call it quits for $70k all in. That would be the smart play no doubt.

From my understanding of what has been communicated so far from seller, in the last 5 years, he has replaced the following with no other known issues:

• Battery Alternator
• Radiator
• Motor Mounts
• Oil Transmission
• 2 Door Regulator
• Steering coolant and change oil
• Brake Rotors and Pads

Upgrades include:

• 2019 G63 Steering wheel
• 2018/13 G63 Brakes and pads and calipers
• 2020 G63 rims (plus OEM 18s)
• LED exterior lights
• Brabus exterior body kit (aftermarket)

Maybe he’s gotten lucky on the repair costs and everything is going to fall on me like has been discussed in this thread or perhaps this is a well maintained and taken care of G55k and lll get lucky. But then again, I’m probably living in fantasy land. If I purchase for a reasonable cost and have $10k off selling price for repairs post purchase, is it that bad? Understanding that transmission, drivetrain, and other big ticket items would balloon that $10k easy.

chassis

@CyberBertie Are you able to answer the question about flowing money into this old high performance German vehicle? Your profile lists the G55, did you buy it? Let's see pics!

CyberBertie

I have not purchased the vehicle yet. Maybe this week unless you guys or PPI convince me otherwise.

To answer your question, I am willing and able to pump monies into the vehicle whether be for additional upgrades (e.g., new shocks/suspension or center console screen) or repairs, within reason. Of course, it would feel bad to have a big ticket item repair materialize within 2 years of ownership or 30k miles (170k at that point) but I’m hoping items like that will be fleshed out from the PPI. Is that an unreasonable expectation?

E55Greasemonkey

The engine should be ok if the proper MB spec oil and OEM filter were used it's entire life. At this mileage however those are questions that likely cannot be answered.

What I'd really be concerned about is spending this kind of money and living with the things that cannot be fixed. Driveline wear, clunks, rattles, vibration at speed, steering wheel shimmy, transfer case slop. G's have all these things when new and there's no telling how much worse it will be at 140k, 160k, 180k miles. You plan on driving this thing, right? I can't stand constantly chasing the steering wheel going down the road with these....and it can't be any better as the mileage goes up.

shiann

Key will be to finding a local Mercedes G expert or shop that can guide you around issues/repairs. Dealership book prices for maintenance is sky high but in line with what a top-of-the-line Mercedes is expected to cost. Where are you located? My guess is west coast/rocky mountain area if you require a Class E 10 ply tire.

- 250k-300k miles is what I have also heard about the M113k and 5G combo before needing real work. Fortunately, a new M113k or 5G trans aren't that expensive to purchase, although the G-Wagon variant is slightly different than those from your E/S/CL55.
- For suspension, look to spend about $3k to replace with Fox/King with G500 springs (or lift springs if that's your flavor). Another $1-2k if you want to go with Ohlins. The ride ends up significantly better but still roughly the same as a JK with Fox Shocks. DO NOT replace with OE G55 shocks/springs. They're terrible. Absolutely terrible.
- You will for sure have to replace all the rubber bushings and ball joints. This is ~$2k for parts alone. Service will be another $1-2k on top unless you DIY, which is possible.
- Your front swivel ball swipe seals are most certainly failing, which means removing the axle shaft out of the axle. This is a $3-5k service since they usually go in and replace all the bearings and seals at the same time. You'll need a specialized shop to do this as most places won't know how to measure clearances, preload, shim size, etc.
- Interior plastics and trim are probably in rough shape. Factor in ~$1k to replace all the AC vents and random plastic pieces. I just repaired mine, sanded, and repainted to save some money
- The stereo in the early interior models is garbage. I replaced all 9 speakers with aftermarket but had to design and 3D print all my own speaker adapters (off the shelf ones won't work). Then all custom wiring as there are no plug and play solutions (besides the head units).
- Oil leaks are a tough one but valve cover gaskets, breather tank gaskets, oil filter housing gaskets, oil pan gaskets, rear main seal, all seem to be common items around 100k miles. You can tackle all of these if you're a DIY'er but look for a $2-3k service fee for this
- Driveshafts are usually up on their life at around 150k if they've been semi-taken care of. Replacement is your only option at $1-2k
- Door locking solenoids and window regulators are almost common replace items. $2-300 each time these go


The newer G63 steering wheels are nice and there are kits made now to retrofit them. They do look out of place to me though.
The G63 larger breaks are great but you're options for 18" wheels are very limited. The 18" OE wheels will NOT fit over the G63 brake calipers.
The Brabus kit is probably crap, so if you plan to do any off roading it probably won't hold up.
Almost all LED bulbs on the exterior will pop up warning lights unless there are load resistors wired up in series, or the bulbs have a load circuit built in. I purchased better quality 'error cancelling' LED bulbs for the front markers and turn signals from superbrightleds.com and they still trigger errors sometimes.
Aside from service records and a good PPI, look for rust in all the areas I described above. Also of course on the underside of the frame and other areas. Body rust is the killer of any G and I listed all the common areas in my post above.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

CyberBertie

Arkansas Ozark mountains, good point on the Rotors are going to be too big to put stock 18s back on. Didn’t think about that. I’m going to setup the PPI tomorrow and take all this into account.

Is this just a better option? Latest 2011, low miles.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...G&LNX=VDPCCEML

Gene Gorman

With all the questions you have you should probably look for a different truck. There are plenty of low mileage well maintained G class cars. They may take time and patience to find but in the end well worth it. You don’t want to buy your friend’s car. If you do and have problems it will be uncomfortable for both you and your friend. Sometimes the hunt is just as much fun as the purchase. I looked for a year and found a very well maintained 2011 G55 with only 5 thousand miles on it and it was only 10 miles from me. I know that you can find that unicorn if you keep looking.

CyberBertie

Is this the way? Low mileage, 2011 last model year. A lot more money though.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...G&LNX=VDPCCEML

shiann

That low mile 2011 looks very nice. The price is high, but not out of this world, especially given the last production year of the G55, King shocks and springs (will save you $4-5k) and low miles. Of course all the same inspection points apply to that G also.

Spending a little more $ on a G now in better condition will save you headache down the road if you plan to keep it for a long time.

This one comes with the AMG 19" wheels, which are very nice, but there are basically no all terrain tires for 19's, which means downsizing to 18" or up to 20's. 18" is the smallest size you can run on the G55 due to larger calipers/rotors.
Also take into account swapping to larger tires will force you to stop using the OEM tire carrier as it won't fit anything larger than the OEM spare size.

CyberBertie

Id have to buy 18s, Load E 10 Ply is a must. Lets just call the delta $30k. Would I spend $30k in repairs buying the 2011 vs 2005. I understand it’s hard to say but $30k is a lot of additional cash but I get it (100k delta in mileage). I guess the question is, is 100k miles worth $30k?

Is reasonable to say, well I put on 25k miles a year, so over a 3 year period, would I spend $30k on repairs on both vehicles? Keep in mind the 2011 would have an additional 75k miles so let’s say 125k vs 215k miles. Sounds like an easy decision but I would think 125k miles on a G Wagon will start running into those repairs whereas perhaps the 2005 already had some of those meaningful repairs done post 100k? Sounds like a pipe dream. Just trying to do the math.

shiann

I think most G's that get to the 125k mark will all need the standard maintenance items (oil leaks, new bushings, new steering components, new axle seals).

I think your overall costs for the 2011 will be well under 30k for the next 3 years (probably in the 10k range). In 2024 with 125k miles on it, you can chose to do all those maintenance items (at once or along the way), or not as pass the vehicle along. Going on the pre-covid market, there's a good chance your 2011 with 125k miles in 2024 will still be worth somewhere in the $50-60k range (based on current prices for 2008 G55's)

For the 2005, you'll probably have to put in 25k of work over the next 3 years to address all those issues, but you'll be left with a truck that has 215k miles in 2024, that should be good to go for several more years before needing major work. The pre-covid market would put a 2005 with 215k miles in 2024 in the $30k range.

Overall both seem to be pretty comparable in terms of depreciation, but will depend on if you plan to keep it after 3 years and/or want to take on all those maintenance items.

For my situation, my 2005 only currently has 107k miles on it. It will need a lot of the maintenance items, but I know the previous owner took care of some of them already within the past 20k miles, and the rest I plan to DIY (driveshaft seals, all bushings, steering components, address any rust areas, etc). This already has and will take a ton of time over the next few years, but it's something I enjoy so I think it's worth it. Your situation may be different. When I was shopping for my G in 2018/2019 and looking for comps, I found that 1 year newer generally meant ~$2k in asking price, where every 10k miles lower, the askign price was ~$2000 higher. So applying that to your 2005 vs 2011 choice above, the price difference should be something like ~$30k. So the 2005 truck for $40k will make (some) sense compared to the 2011 at $70k.

But compare this to getting something like a new Defender or Range Rover. You'll be out $50k just for depreciation in that time alone, not to talk about maintenance costs. You can also throw in a 4Runner, Land Cruiser/LX460 in that convo and depreciation will be considerably less across the board, but they also don't have the same feel and aura as a G. There's also the new JL 392's that will feel a lot like the G but may be more in your comfort zone (good or bad thing) in the Jeep world.

CyberBertie

I increased my budget and splurged. Looking for another G for me or wife. Off-road ready. Need to do some work on this one for my 10/12 ply tire (Can see the mountains in the background).

CyberBertie

Really appreciated all the guidance and advice on this thread. Thank you all again. Time to do some enhancements to get ready for my road!

streborx

Never realized Colorado could be seen from that far away! (lol)

CyberBertie

Hah - Arkansas, Ozark mountains. We got out of Colorado after law school at DU in 2015.