idrive

Fletcher Jones Las Vegas

I took my car in for a warranty issue. I tell the service advisor I'd like to get the oil changed while I'm there.(new car with 2000 miles) and tries to talk me out of it. I talk to him about lowering the car with star diagnostics. "We don't do that" "dealer doesn't recommend" was all he could say... about everything I asked him about. Very frustrating.
I thought the idea was to SELL. cars, parts, service. No one selling service.

as soon as I get my mbworld stickers I'm going to put one on their front door.

revstriker

On the oil change, I think it was good that he tried to talk you out of a foolish decision. You think your SA should encourage you to have unnecessary service performed on your car?

I don't know what "lowering the car with star diagnostics" means. I always thought lowering the car was a mechanical thing. Either way, I can understand the dealer not recommending such alterations to your car.

JDM

If a customer insists on having his oil changed, by all means, let him buy it...but in regards to lowering, I can see their point. They would have to void any warranty claims that related to any part of the suspension, puting their relationship with the customer at risk, and increasing their liability.

idrive

Having read thread after thread it appears that most change their oil at much shorter intervals than the service calls for. Especially on a new motor. 500, 1000 miles and replace at break in does not seem to be uncommon

imo it wasn't a foolish decision to want to have the oil changed, and I live where it is a full day and a pain in the *** to go to Vegas for service.

revstriker

It's a foolish decision because it flies in the face of research which proves that you do not have to change your oil that quickly. Your MB dealer knows this. Knowing this, I think the respectable thing for him to do, should someone request an oil change early because they received inaccurate information, is inform the customer it's not necessary, and advise against it. Now if the customer is indeed foolish and decides that they STILL want to part with the $100+ for an oil change, then by all means, the SA should schedule it. Might want to get your transmission fluid replaced as well.

E552006

Exactly
Everyone else who has posted on the thread needs to learn a little bit about their cars.
Lowering via Stardiagnostic is not a risk, just uneducated service departments at work.
As far as changing oil at 2k...great idea!
Do you have any idea what kind of metal content is in your oil after the first few hundred miles of engine breakin?

E552006

BTW
Fu$% the dealer, if you want your oil changed they should change it.
End of story. Who is paying for it, not them.
It's not uneducated to change your oil at this initial interval. Read up on this.

JDM

............and yet again, another dealer recommends to me, " If I where you, I'd have the trans flushed at about 50 k miles or so..." He tells me it's exactly the same trans thats been in the cars since '97, when they used to service them more frequently. Even the filter is the same paper/fiber filter. He did mention updates, but that they only involve reprogramming, and replacement of the valvebody and control unit assembly in approx '01. Now I'm no service tech, but when two mercedes dealers tell me that waiting forever to change the trans fluid "probably is'nt a good idea" I start to wonder if waiting 10-15k miles to change the oil is smart.

JDM

..Just for the record, I dont think it's smart. I change it every 5k. Especially after I noted sludge on the underside of the cap. Chrysler for example is loosing engines in 300m due to sludge. (2.5 engines) Late model cars, with a history of routine maint, engine failure before 100k.

E55AMG99

I change my oil for the first time when breakin is done. While I have not pulled an oil sample on a new MB engine at 1000 miles (I already know it will be very high in metals), I can tell you the metal content at the 5000 mile sample was greater than the 10,000 and subsequent samplings. This was true for both of my MBs and every new car I've owned. Even though the advancements in engine building techniques and oil quality minimize the amount of initial metal wear, there is still a significant amount of metal wearing off friction surfaces in the early stages of an engine's life.

Sealed transmission MY A$$! Change the fluid at 30-50K if you plan on keeping the car past the warranty.

JDM

......here's a thought, Manufactures have fudged about horsepower, either up or down, torque, towing capacity, fuel milleage, and so on, is it possible they might strrreeecchhh the service intervals ? after all, who keeps a car long anyway, right? (they'll never know the trans failed at 130k)

JDM

...we asked for it though. Consumers said, "give us maintenence free, trouble free cars"
.."and cup holders!"

E55AMG99

How have they "fudged" on these ratings? TUV in Germany has specific requirements about HP ratings, EPA in the US has very specific tests for mileage, etc.

While I disagree with your first statement, you are correct in stating that manufacturers want to stretch service intervals to lower (percieved or real) cost of ownership.

E55AMG99

Yes, the masses did want cup holders. Lots of them and big ones too. After all those Micky D super size drinks are huge!

JDM

.
.I will admit, I have no proof..But I seem to recall a time when horse power was marked down on paper (U.S.) to please insurers, or advertising horsepower ratings at the crank, although truthful,not everyone knows you loose some at the wheels...The big bold fuel milleage numbers on window stickers highlight an optimum average, while down below in fine print is a more likely avergage (forget how it reads)..alot of prius customer state that their car gets nothing of what they expected..but there is nothing unethical about making your product shine, it's business..and we love it! But I just want the truth about about taking care of it.

JDM

..
...I think I counted 14 in an 8 passenger mini van once.

E55AMG99

Yeah, back in the 1960's US makers would sometimes rate their engines lower. Funny thing is that when compared to engines made today, they had LESS horsepower back then! I think it was 1970 that the US standardized HP ratings to stop that practice.

EPA numbers are a joke if you actually think you can ever attain them in the real world. However, like standardized HP ratings, they are a good for comparison between different cars.

revstriker

Let's set the record straight here. Lots of misinformation going around.

The poster was complaining because his service adviser recommended against an oil change at 2000 miles. All of the research done on these engines show that this is NOT necessary. If a customer comes in and asks for something that is PROVEN to be not necessary, then the service adviser should advise against it. I think the fact that he is complaining about this is crazy. Would he rather have his service adviser recommending things that are not necessary??

Now you can "feel good" all you want about changing your oil at 2000 miles. You can be proud of yourself for protecting your engine. You can tell yourself anything you want to justify the money you spend. However, it doesn't change the results of the research which shows that you are not helping (or hurting) your engine by doing this. At least, not to any significant degree.

Also, Mercedes cars are equipped with a Flexible Service System which includes a very sophisticated oil quality monitor. The system looks at driving speeds, cold starts, short-distance trips and other factors that can negatively affect oil life. It also monitors the quality of the oil – particles in suspension and other factors – and it can judge when the oil has deteriorated to the extent that it needs to be replaced.

As to the accusation that they are lying about service intervals..... Now why would they want to do this? The fact is, MB has a vested interest in making sure their cars are reliable. We're also talking about the wear in a New car which is almost always under warranty.

revstriker

Including you.

First, this isn't about the dealer refusing to do unnecessary work, it's about them advising against it. I don't know about you, but most customers want to be advised by their service adviser (hence the title), not just have them take their money.

And it most certainly IS uneducated to change your oil at the point stated. Again, research proves this is not necessary. Maybe you should read up on it and see for yourself.

JDM

Revstriker, I do not disagree with you regarding changing the oil when the car has a mere 2000 miles on it, and I do agree that a service advisor (and I am one, myself) tell the truth, and look out for the intrests of the customer...An engine certainly should wear in properly...I do not agree with the lack of trans service requirements, and based on what I see, I am concerned about the long oil change intervals.

E552006

Revstriker
I have read up on it and opinions vary greatly. There is data that shows high metal content in the oil of new engines after the break in period. Furthermore this only makes sense. All the little (micro) particles of metal that come from breakin have to go somewhere. The idea is to not have them become destructive to rings and any other part of your engine.
I will admit that I am cautious when it comes to maintenance and would rather be safe than sorry. I also would like the dealer to listen to what I want done. Like I said, it's my penny not theirs.
Don't qualify my knowledge of engines based on my educated opinion on this subject.

E55AMG99

Hey, Rev,
There are many studies on the subject of automotive mainenance and engine oil specificaly. While I resepct your opinion greatly, the results of these vary widely leaving me to my own experience. It has taught me that there are higher levels of metal debris in an engine for several hundred or a few thousand miles of new. Why not get it out ASAP?

My statement WRT extending service intervals is not meant to call them liars. I am only stating that I don't see the direct correlation of extended service intervals lowering long term cost of operation.

idrive

I say to the service writer, and I want to get my oil changed while I'm here.
His answer (imo) should have been, "No Problem, is there anything else you would like us to do?" I did not ask for his oponion, advice or "recommendation" just service.

E552006

Exactly

revstriker

E552006 and E55AMG99, I respect your knowledge, and your position on this issue. I apologize if my comments seemed harsh - maybe it's just dealing with one too many people "advising" members that the FSS is wrong, or that the info that MB is giving them is not valid.

I too have see quite a bit of research on engine oil (although I am no oil expert). I have seen a lot of reports of how modern engines no longer produce the level of metal particles during break in as they did only a few years earlier. Also, with the newer, modern, synthetic oils, they can handle more particles with less risk of damage.

Anyway, there are varying opinions on this matter, but the fact that MB has no issue with it, and considering that most engines would be covered under a factory warranty during this period, I am comfortable following their service schedule.