raymond

Buellwinkle

Yeah, it's like most other things in life. One (read I) always tends to generalize based on one's own experience with a manufacturer's products or services and the perceived experiences of others. Something that I've noticed over the years of driving everything from MB to Nissan (in South Africa, Nissan rates near the bottom of the pile, and I've never owned a Korean auto), people very seldom admit when they have problems with their cars, hence my misguided idea of how reliable German cars are in general. I like to be honest about my car troubles. I hate having to drive - I cannot wait for teleportation.

BTW, what loaner did they give you this time? I liked the C320 Wagon best of all. When we dumped the C230K, I looked hard at the C320 wagon, but the dealer claimed not to know of the $4000 factory rebate that was mentioned on this forum at the time.

I find what you say about American build quality interesting. I agree with you. What generally puts me off about American cars is not the build quality but the lack of engineering (not always that case but ofetn is in my price range) and the lack of longevity. As a consumer, I would like more longevity, but as an engineer I admire the "engineered lack of life" where things break just when you've finished paying the car off, reminding you it's time to play your part in the economy and get a new car.

Robert ...RAB

One way to gauge the value (i.e. superiority) of a particular car mark against another is to look at it's lease residual data. Banks are usually accurate on how they judge a cars value after X number of years and Y mileage. M-B's consistantly hold their value much better than BMW, the lease residual tables confirm this. As the old adage goes, "Money talks, ...". ...RAB

raymond

The value of a used car is what someone is prepared to pay for it. It again comes down to perception, and is not a scientific measure of quality.

Quality of a car is a very broad term, and raw speed, although a small part in my opinion, obviously means a lot to most people. Simply witness VW and Nissan's recent attempts to gain market share by dumping loads of horses into the same old cars.

Boo2

Exactly. The residuals are based on market value. And market value is a function of demand. When it comes to cars, it is not true that the value of a vehicle is equally representative of it's quality. The association of "Quality" to Mercedes comes from PAST reputation.

ezsc

Look at their current F1 standings: (1) Ferrari (2) BMW/Willams (3) McLaren/Mercedes. Mercedes=Prestige, Comfort, & Safty. BMW=Performance, driving excitment, & value.

dasMafia

oh man, why do I always miss the good flam wars!!!!! stinking virus!

dasMafia

time out tonto... then why did MB crank-down the lease residual on their starmarked cars and on the C230 to keep the "exclusive" niche happy??? BMW has higher percentage residuals accross the board! try leasing a C230 and a 325Ci and see which has a better residual...

that is again using a poor indicator of the market though, MB cranks the residual down to keep the cars exclusive (somewhat), and BMW is busy trying to put a car in every driveway. it is a different way of doing business.

and MBs have as many problems as BMWs, likely more, but which has more little gizmos to break??? so it becomes a game of percentages.

bottom line, both are fine cars, and the new E class and CLK are going to rock the world in more ways that i can imagine. but in the meantime, my wife's new 5er touring and my new E36 3er are on the way, and my mom doesn'y like her 7-month old ML320 and wants an X5 (she paid for it, its her perogative).... so what have we established??? that each individual person has a different set of values that shapes their decision process and that each can and may come to a different conclusion based on those value structures.

Felix

i like mercedes more because of beautiful cars like the SL and CL which have no competitors from BMW.

KnightRider

Quote:

Faster, by itself, does not mean better. There are many items to evaluate to select the better car and speed is just one of them. And remember, while some of these items can be quantified, many are subjective.

I agree totally with that by Lynn.

Quote:

If the only important thing is the 0-60 time or top speed, don't buy a MB - you're missing the point.

And with that by jswedberg.

There's more to Mercedes than even objective figures. It's the whole feeling of the car and it's totally different from BMW. I like them both and I'll disagree with Felix on beauty topic too. I reckon BMW (past and present models, hate new Z4 and 7) are beautiful in their own way and so are recent Mercedes cars. The proof is below

KnightRider

And I totally love new Mercedes (SL/E/CLK) styling too.

GeaKana

What I'm obssesed with:the fan-boy attitude that we get on almost every forum out there in the world concerning B.M.W........every 12 year old who has never driven a Bimmer talks like he has 3-4 cars......every dumb kid who sees a movie or an ///M3 on the streets becomes a true conoisseur of the brand......on the other hand.....most Mercedes fans r also clients of the brand....& their opinion on it is based on drivin' the car.....I'm not dissin' B.M.W. or B.M.W. fans but it's the attitude I get everywhere....

rgiorgio

Only in America is BMW recognized as highly as it is. Yes, they are sporty, fast and fun to drive, but that does not make them better, just more fun. In most countries around the world, Mercedes Benz is considered the best. Even better than Rolls. Ever wonder why Japanese cars look like Benz's. Is is a from of flattery. Even the Jap's consider Mercedes the best. That is their goal. To be equal or better than Benz, not BMW, Cadillac, Audi, Rolls etc. Now that BMW has Rolls, watch what Mercedes will do to them with the Maybach. Just better quality and better engineered. I have had a number of BMW's and Benz's so I am not talking out of my *ss. The quality of the leather, dash, door panels & paint just do not hold up over time like the Benz. Ever bring a BMW to service? Unaffordable. If it was not for America loving the automobile as a status symbol like we do, who know's where BMW would be today. If you trade your car every 2 to 3 years it does not matter which one you have any more. All cars are built much better then just 5 years ago. Keep a car for 5 years or more and see the difference. the Benz will always hold up better.

GeaKana

I agree with ya in everything.....too bad ppl like u & me r hard 2 find on "general forums"

karl k

40-30 years ago, BMW cars were for the "nouveau riche", and MB for the "farmers" in Germany.

Today the lines are blurred.

Frank Wiesmann

thats 300km/h!