vraa

I've let a little bit of things other than luxury influence my decisions, because what good is it when you get mad after giving the car to service or such, that isn't luxury. Or things when you don't get looks any more or get the wrong type of looks, that's either luxury or the absence of true luxury.

Guest0001

Porsche at 4? Porsche is not even close to being a luxury car

J Lucas

You should also be able to remove some of those makers off the list like infiniti and volvo...

RU_MATRX

You must be kidding. Ever researched or seen any of the current Infinitis' models?

Sorry to say that Infiniti would put a many of Mercedes models to shame in terms of quality, luxury, ride and features. I've said that I don't consider my FX45 as an opulent luxury vehicle because it wasn't designed to be (sports performance/handling orientated). It's still a luxury vehicle in every sense of the word and way beyond the average one in terms of technology. It has everything one would want in an SUV. One would be surprised at the quality of the Bird's eye maple and amenities found in the Q45/M45/QX56. Some of these models are right in line with Lexus build quality. Btw, when was the last time Mercedes an SUV offer a DVD-based 3-D GPS, back-up camera, DVD TV, Laser Cruise control, modular pod dashes, motorized hatches (except for the higher end Merc sedans), Bi-Xenons std, and many other details as luxuries? Yes, some non-SUV models have DVD GPS/and the sonar cruise but they are about 2/3 yrs behind Lexus and Infiniti. Ironically, I had to pay extra to even get the Bi-Xenons on my SL55 AMG and it still has the same GPS system that my friend's FLAGSHIP SL600 had back in 2001! That technology and graphics display would have been great in 1998. It's 2004 today right?

Infiniti was also one of the first to offer SAT/XM/Sirius radio. The definition of luxury encompasses a wide realm of amenities. Also, you should take a drive to your nearest Volvo dealership and see what they've been up to in the past 3yrs as well. High-end safety features are luxury as well which is what they've been known for since the 70's. Btw, Porsche is a luxury sports car (GT to true Porschephiles) . The myriad options and expense that you could invest in a custom (factory) 996TT could make it easily more luxurious than any vehicle out there. But then, what's the point for a true supercar created for performance not weight and gadgets? Also, you don't buy a Porsche for quiet comfort and an ultra-smooth, Lexus-like ride.

Also, why isn't GM (Denali, etc) or Hummer or Toyota (Luxury Minivan right there with Lexus) not on the list? Luxury vehicles have no bounds and are considered "luxury" relative to their own class and the industry.

My main point here is that all of these vehicles are "luxury" in their own right (non-standard grocery-getters) which people pay a premium for because they are outstanding beyond the calibre of your average Ford Taurus/Chevy Cavalier. Take out Porsche and Infiniti from the "luxury" market and we've lost a lot.

Guest0001

Only Infiniti I sat inside for a ride was the G35 Coupe. I will say i love the exterior design and power but thats about it. The interior looks and feels exteremely cheap. The ride is not luxurious or smooth but it is pretty sporty. I dont consider the G35 a luxury car by any stretch but it is a damn nice car for the money. I have not sat in the other models so i cant comment any further. But about relialibility... Isnt nissan/infiniti the worse of the japanese car brands?

RU_MATRX

This is embarassing to post for Mercedes though
J.D Power & Associates 2003 Vehicle Dependibility Rankings:

Infiniti #2
Mercedes #28 (9 positions below std average) Chrysler is 5 positions ahead of Mercedes.

There are a total of only 38 worldwide vehicle manufacturers listed. Suzuki, Daewoo, Land Rover (OUCH!) and Kia fill out the bottom #35-#38 respectively.

http://www.eletra.com/autospies/e_article000166266.cfm

http://www.eletra.com/autospies/e_article000134616.cfm

There are (2) other major global studies published by J.D Power & Associates: Initial Quality and Customer Service Study/Appeal next to Vehicle Dependability

For the "2003 Customer Service Index:"

Infiniti ranks #1
Mercedes #12 (Above Industry Average)

Click the "Summary Icon" for the 2003 Customer Service Index Study at the J.D. Power site.

http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/relea...ch.asp?CatID=1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the popular and well-touted "2003 Initial Quality Study:"

Infiniti ranks #3
Mercedes #15 (1 step from Industry average)

http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/relea...ch.asp?CatID=1

I believe that Mercedes is near the top on the 2003 Sales Satisfaction Study though.

In regards to the G35, it's the "entry level" Infiniti right on par with the BMW 330i sedans. There's no way that a nicely-loaded or even BASE G35 appears "cheap," especially compared to the C320s/BMW 330i. The base version offers much more features, better ergonomics/fit/finish, technology than both the base BMW and Merc. I truly believe that the new 2005 C-Class is now catching up to what's already available through other luxury marques today. Kudos to Mercedes. Also, I'm sure that anyone here who owns a G35 Coupe/Sedan can attest to the excellence of that vehicle that makes no excuses in it's class. They are also getting a 20hp bump this fall to 280HP and 300HP (Coupe) this fall. The "luxury" vehicles to compare against Lexus and Mercedes should be the Q45/M45/QX56. Wait until the new redesign of the M45 comes out this year.

I never imagined that J.D. Power conducted so many in-depth tests in the automotive field alone. They even have extensive studies on "Seat Quality," "Tire Replacement," and "Road-side assistance" comparing all manufacturers. Have fun perusing the site.

Big Terry

MB, Jag , Lexus

Guest0001

Matrix, I like there new cars. But I dont give too much credit to infiniti. Not yet atleast, since they have been making some nice cars for...what 2 years??? Before the G35 and FX came out Infiniti was not even on the doplar radar. They need to pay there dues, then I will pay more attention to them. M45 is a old car and dated chassis. Q45 is not close to the Calibers of the S500, A8, 745, and LS. But I do looks forward to there up and coming cars. Its a good car, nothing wrong with it, but no where in greatness of the other models its competing against.

Mustard

And it was less than $50,000! Thats the bit I couldn't quite believe.

That's less than I paid for a BMW 320d!

I thought the whole execution of the concept was just brilliant, especially in terms of size/features.

S55inPA

hi guys,

this is kind of on and off the topic.
i just received a survey from jdpowers.
i get them usually about 3 months after i
buy a new car. in this case it is for the M5
i picked up right before Christmas. the survey
asked about service visits, road side assistance,
dealer treatment, tire info, etc. this is about the
10th one i've had to fill out. what pisses me off
is they only give you a dollar for filling out the
survey. they should up it to 5 bucks once you
fill out a survey completely at least once.

also...when it comes to jdpowers validity....i trust
their surveys. i sometimes wondered though if people
who purchase MB's are more critical of their cars
because of unrealistic expectations. just a thought.

my picks,

1-MB
2-BMW
3-Audi
4-Lexus
5-Cadillac

Incendiary

You got a new M5 three months ago? Was this an E39? I'd have thought all the 2002's would have sold out long ago, since another one wasn't due for another two years... Anyway, congrats!

Ah, the first Cadillac to crack the top 5. And still, no Porsche. Everyone's hating on them. Interesting...

S55inPA

hi incendiary,

the M5 is a brand new 03. last one the dealer was to receive
before the model change over. knock on wood it should be a
proven trouble free auto. i only have 1500 miles on it so far.
i'm enjoying the 6 speed stick. kind of a treat.

as for porsche....i view them as a high performance car brand.
sportiness comes to my mind before luxury when i think of porsche.

RU_MATRX

Well Noble I've driven the Q45 and it IS highly comparable to the S500. If I were to choose though, my preference would be the Mercedes over an Infiniti sedan for the driving experience alone though that doesn't take away any luxury merits from Infiniti. I would rather buy the E55/E500 rather than the S500 though. I'm sure that the upcoming Q45 is going to be more inline with the best of the luxury marques just like the M45 will. My friend's 2001 S600 was the smoothest, most balanced large sedan which I'd ever driven back in 2002. It was the consumate balance of luxury, handling and smooth V12 NA power.

Infiniti has raised the bar in basically the last 3yrs although their previous models were great cars for their class though not stylishly appealing to me. Regardless of their great intrinsic values, I thought they were boring and mediocre in styling. Different for the sake of being different. Not bold. Not exciting to look at.

vraa

Porsche seems to have a lot more overall luxury than other companies such as Volvo, Saab and the likes. True they are sporty, but they are also very rich in terms of heritage and such.

Hakk403

Heritage and such yes, but is the interior up to par with luxury vehicles from BMW and Mercedes? NO.

I'd love to own a Porsche, one of my favorite cars, but it isn't total refined package that I would consider a luxury car, it's a sports car.

revstriker

The government (until 2003) levyed a luxury tax on vehicles over the price of $40,000. I'm not sure that price alone defines a luxury car though....

I got this from the website of New York Exotic Car Rentals:

What Is a Luxury Car?

A luxury car is defined by the federal government as a vehicle that exceeds a $55,135 price tag. It is traditionally a four-door sedan that is brimming with technology, safety and prestigious amenities to make your trip almost effortless. The style is built around exceptional grace and sophisticated class. Quite simply, whatever you want, you've got it in a luxury vehicle.

Luxury cars are divided into three categories for your needs and desires: compact, medium, and large. Prices generally become steeper as the engine's horsepower increases, with price tags ranging from $50,000 - $70,000 for compact luxury cars, $70,000 - $110,000 for medium luxury cars, and over $110,000 for the large cars. Features go beyond anything you could ever dream of wanting in a car.

Guest0001

thats a good definition IMO

JoePaluch

Porsche's are NOT luxury cars.

... or at least the should NOT BE luxury cars.

As a Porsche purist I would rather them focus on the sporting aspects of car rather than the luxury aspects.

Leave luxury to others. That said there is no reason have cheap 20k interiors in 70k cars.

Luxury is not in my opinion all the bells and whistles. I consider many of these as gadgets rather than real usefull stuff.

I prefer things like ride quality, interior material quality, noise levels, safety, adequate power levels (not always super hp, but brisk), a good list of common type features such as nice audio systems, automatic climate controls and such now that they common place.

One gadget that I could do without on my ML is the auto on/off headlights. Heck I can do that myself. I don't have rain sensing wipers and don't want them. Just another thing that could break.

Anothing that bugs me is these auto sensing entry systems that opens the car as you approach. Just mindless gadegtry to me. Sure maybe they are worth while, but after a few years of development. Give me better interior materials in its place and i'd be happier.

J Lucas

HEy Joe
Just curious, do you own any 1990 or 2k porsches?how do you feel about them?

Incendiary

Okay, I'll clarify. I included Porsche because I was thinking of "luxury" more of as "prestige." Everyone has his/her own opinion as to what luxury is, though, so I guess that backfired.

If you're wondering why I didn't include Bentley, Ferrari, etc., it's because I only wanted to include the more "affordable" luxury/prestige car makes.

So how about re-ranking them based on perception of prestige?

JoePaluch

Well it is really all a value thing to me.

I picked up my 88 944 Turbo S in 1997. It was what I could afford at 12.5k and with 250 stock hp was a match for any new boxster and not that far off a boxster S. Nice thing is that in these few years the value of the car is may by 10.5 to 12k. Not bad.

From a purist stand point I do like the boxster/boxster S. I think they are fine cars, but I can get past the value of the earlier ones. I can have muiltiple 80's 944's for one boxster.

I think the 993 was the pinicale of the 911 series. Great cars, but not yet in my price range. I have never been a fan of the 996. To heavy and not really sporty enough. Fine car, but more like the 928 than a 911. My parents have a 91 928. That is fine GT / Luxury sports car. I really like that car, but perfer the lighter weight and tossability of my 88 Turbo S. The 996 line is really a 928 in 911 cloths. Fine if you ask me, but not really a 911.

I do think the GT3 is really what the 911 should be. Raw and fast with purity of spirit and purpose and can easily belong on the track. While boxster's are fine cars they are not raced very much. Not sure why. I have heard about a long time Porsche racer trying to club race a 996 (no the GT3). He ran into many issues the basicly showed the car was not quite up to racing duty. It needed more work than a 993 to make in to solid fast club racer. The GT3 however is an entirely different story. Since the 996 and boxster share many parts I think that the reason alot folk's dont race boxsters is that they are also a suspect on the track.

Sure the 944 line has its track issues, but their low cost means there plenty of guys willing to give them try on the track and have lots of success. In PCA club racing for example my 88 944 Turbo S and Boxster S run in the same class.

People complain about the lack of certain luxury features in the boxster & 996, but forget that these are sports car first with a few luxury touches added in here and there. Problem is for 75% of the new car market they just care about status and luxury.

Find the guys with an older Porsche in the garage and you will probably find a purist. Sure he may have a new one too, but...

1SICKLEX

Bet u didn't know the luxury car the government picked to buy was a Lexus GS 300.

J Lucas

1siclex

do you still own a lexus GS? Last I heard you crashed your car, did you buy another one?

1SICKLEX

Not yet. I want to drive the next GS (due next Spring) before I make a decision. If I get the same GS I had, it will be a 300 more than likely to turbo. Others in mind
GTO is looking nice as is the new C6.
I think the new SLK is simply gorgous with the AMG kit. 3.5 V-6 with 268hp, very solid.
2002 M3
996 Carerra
LS 430 (driving my ES now, I am getting used to the floaty ride )

In December, I came really close to a G35c (got a great deal) but that interior broke the deal for me, I just could not get past it.

Which makes my mission a lil harder is mods. Since whatever I get, I will slap on mods that same week. So I am doing research on all sorts of cars and mods for them. Which makes being on all these boards helpful.