MBWorld Editor

Let's try and answer that question by pitting some AMG turbo-powered V6 engines versus their V8 counterparts in a sound and acceleration test.

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PeterUbers

Arthrodesis

Amg should have stuck with v8s. I know many of us have followed amg and MB for a while. IMO, they have lost a lot of respect from a few enthusiasts when they released the cla45.

lseguy

change/evolution. Have to accept it. I remember when AMG's were considered very exclusive, borderline "rare", and highly, highly coveted. Prior to 1999 when Benz took over ownership. Even moreso late 80's when a sighting of something like an AMG SEC was something to behold, not an everyday type of thing to see

sliqdaddy91

Difference between the c450 and c63 becomes noticeable above 200 km/h...before that though it's quite close see for youself

Speedriven1

Are we ignoring the C36 and C32, then?

1ForcedBenz

Exactly what I was going to say. Most people here claiming to be long time AMG fans clearly don't know the history of them even back into the late 90s as seeing how the SLK32 was the quickest AMG of the lineup when they were out.

BerndV

No V6 for me thank you.

Arthrodesis

I am not a fan, but I'm a buyer. Anyone can talk the talk, unless you got money to buy multiple new amgs then your opinion doesn't really matter to MB or to other real enthusiasts.

Ejbrock

EJbrock
Every AMG finds its path in terms of desire,depreciation and market acceptance. Time will tell each models buyer acceptance and the value they place on it.

1ForcedBenz

Absolutely and I'm an advocate for it. MB nor any manufacturer is in the business of targeting second and third owner's. Your point being?

Speedriven1

Most of those guys are kids. They don't remember the 90's and the AMG Hammer was something that happened to their parents. Which- and this is terrifying in its own way- is us, I guess.

kuba.95

They're only "real AMG's" until they find themselves next to a C63

Speedriven1

I guess an AMG Hammer is only a real AMG until an E400 pulls up alongside it, then?

INS1GNIA

Bi-turbos....

Arthrodesis

Lol are you the same person who posted this crap on the amg pl? That site always gives me a good laugh.

kuba.95

Nope.

Migx27

I have a c450 amg sport. its quick, its fun. its also my first Mercedes, and NO its not an AMG. Couple of colleagues of mine with AMG's and I know the c450 is not an amg or trying to be one. I Jumped from an Audi s5 and the c450 its so much quicker. as above, its my first MB. next car c63S coupe. so the trick of getting people interested in MB with this new/dead lineup worked on me.

Socalrmb

As a proud owner of a C450 AMG I must say that its performance is very impressive! of course it is not going to sound or perform as a C63, but if you keep in mind that it does not count with those extra 1000cc or 2 extra cylinders you really get to appreciate its performance - AMG performance (c'mon...0-60 in 4.7 secs is not bad at all..). I understand purists when they complain about MB moving to turbocharged V6s vs traditional V8 engines, and of course the fact that AMG is not sticking anymore to its “one man, one engine” philosophy, but if you consider that the whole industry is moving towards the idea of smaller turbocharged engines that put out great power Mercedes Benz' approach is logical, and actually quite smart by calling the attention and bringing new buyers into its "AMG cult" (buyers that until know had only considered BMW or Audi as a viable alternative for fast/powerful cars within the C450 AMG's price range). In my view, AMG is (like the rest of the other sport divisions of car makers) adjusting/evolving to cope with new challenging times, and changes brought by such evolution are not necessarily going to satisfy everybody. However, considering what MB has managed to retain a good number of AMG characteristics on the C450 (like power, comfort and style) I consider it worthy of the AMG Badge.

Cheers,

BRBM

To make a long story long, having looked at all the posts on this issue - as a former C63 owner - I find Socalrmb's as one worth quoting. He makes some all-encompassing and very valid points to expand on. My take is that it really is both.

Forever unworthy of the AMG badge for one reason (no hand-built powertrain originating in Affalterbach)......while being absolutely worthy for 5-10 (count the upgrades from the C400 4matic, all done for only a couple thou. in base price increase). And no, I've nothing but the 450 on my rear; I like the barely noticeable baby AMGs only on the front fenders.

Think I'm talking crazy? Note the upgrades or enhancements placing it squarely between the 400 and 63:

1. Engine (increased boost/power upgrade),
2. Exhaust (performance & sound upgrade + quad tips),
3. Brakes (C63-spec 14.2" front upgrade for sure, 12.5" rear...I think; not sure what the C400 has)
4. Added 4matic unavailable on the C63, as well as the 67/33 tweak from the C400's 55/45,
5. C63's hand-me-down variable ratio steering, (NOT COMPLAINING!)
6. C63's hand-me-down 3-stage adjustable dampers,
7. C63's hand-me-down body work/cosmetic sport package - front & rear,
8. Diamond grille upgrade
9. Suspension: From the C400, it's retuned with more negative camber to enhance roadholding. Also, stiffer springs, bushings and steering knuckles tighten its body control and sharpen its response.

(What did I miss?)

TRANSLATION: Love it or hate it, accept it or bash it, it is a "Paradox" using the Mirriam-Webster definition:

• Something (such as a situation) that is made up of two opposite things and that seems impossible but is actually true or possible;
• A statement that seems to say two opposite things but that may be true.

So, while I miss the brutal shove, overall performance and insane V-8 sound of the M156 in the old 63 - and the original front bucket seats in the 2008-2011 models (changed with the refresh), I lose only 15-20% of the power but also lose 200 lb. from my fat 63AMG butt.

Then, add a little brains + some cash $1,000 to about $2,500 depending on tune, then all of a sudden my power is up in the 400s (402 hp/454 lb. ft. from RennTech @ the high end price) or 400-500s (448 hp/533 lb. ft. from OE in the $11-1200 range).

Therefore, while I may not be driving a true AMG that scares the s--- outta me from time to time and often attempts to kill me, I'm still driving an AMG that will keep my happy *** alive to dust off S4s, S5s, 340Is, and an occasional M3, ATS-V or RS5 with the right tune.

Yes, we were provided V-8 power to essentially mimic that of a 4.5 liter unit, and it feels like it. Despite what some clown said on another thread, that he got smoked by a Lexus GS350. Either the boy can't drive, bought a lemon, or lied by omitting his own "driver error" screw-up.

Now get off our case! We love our 450s/43s regardless of what we aren't, even though we are. That's right, dawg. Legit AMGs. Kind of. But not really. And around and around the debate goes.

Any questions?

SCTinkering

What IS AMG but the ultimate expression of any given model of MB? No the CLA45 isn't a V-anything, but it IS the ultimate expression of a CLA. Personally it's the only CLA version I'd even consider.

I would have liked to see the CLA45 in WRC, but honestly it wouldn't really be fair to the other manufactures.

But to the question posed, no the AMG Sports aren't AMGs because they aren't hand built in Affalterbach. If an MB doesn't go through there, it's not an AMG.

CarolinaBluetec

The SLK32 was a blown V6 and it is a monster. AMG all the way.

Speedriven1

Technically, AMG is a distinct tuning company that was bought by Mercedes-Benz in the 1990s for the purpose of cashing in on the market's desire to tune their Benzes. It's not the ultimate expression of anything, then- it's just a car that was tuned by AMG.

BRBM

Uh, not quite the way you're stating it, essentially saying AMG is some run-of-the-mill, garden-variety tuning company that Mercedes bought off as some greedy money grab scenario. No.

AMG was started by two MB technicians that didn't have time to work @ MB and tune customer cars during their off time, so they branched off while at the same time maintaining the strong connection to MB. Hell, to this day the man who provides the A (Aufrecht) still tunes DTM engines using his next company - HWA (his initials).

When Aufrecht moved AMG to larger premises in Affalterbach, the M guy (Melcher) left the company to work independently in Burgstall, his hometown. There, he and his small company MKB (Melcher-Konrad-Burgstall) continue supplying engine designs and parts to AMG, e.g. for the Mercedes Formula 3 engine that dominates the Formula Three Euroseries......as well as being actively involved in GT3 series engine production. (Although as of today I believe he has sold MKB according to Merc Enthusiast magazine).

Is there any truth to the MB being in the business of making money? Sure. But that's what the customer's want, so love it or hate it, they made a decision to - arguably - make the brand more mainstream with the mid range models, the 43s. (Read: diluted if someone want to have that debate.)

Here.......bone up on your pre-1990s AMG history; having been founded in the late 60s they were actually of drinking age by the beginning of your timeline:

bobbyj

Just Really only want to hear that V8 sound Turbo but non-Turbo if possible.