BETO

Has anybody tried the biodiesel in the GL320 yet? I searched, but couldn't find info.

BETO

I found my answer here
http://www.mbusa.com/locator/jsp/dealer_state_list.jsp
Time to find biodiesel.
Has anybody used it anyways?

mbslk350

That link looks like ML500 accessories.

You can use up to 5% biodiesel. Anything more voids warranty. I've not knowingly used it, but I've only filled the tank once!

BETO

I guess I clicked the wrong link
Here:
Mercedes-Benz USA now approves the use of B5 biodiesel (standard automotive diesel with a maximum five percent biodiesel content) in all Common-rail Direct Injection diesel (CDI) engines. As biodiesel can be refined from a variety of raw materials resulting in widely varying properties, the only approved biodiesel content is one that meets ASTM D6751 specification and that has the necessary oxidation stability (min. 6h, proved with EN14112 method) to prevent damages to the system from deposits and/or corrosion.

Please ask your service station for further information. If the B5 biodiesel blend is not sufficiently labeled to clearly indicate that it meets the above standards, please do not use it. The Mercedes-Benz limited warranty does not cover damage caused by the use of fuels not meeting Mercedes-Benz-approved fuel standards.

BETO

Here is the MBUSA link
http://www.mbusa.com/locator/jsp/dealer_state_list.jsp

dunderhi

I haven't used biodiesel in any car, but I haved used it in my tractor for a few of years now. I have used many concentrations from 5% to 100%. Most manufacturers limit approved concentrations to 5 or 10%.

Positives
1) Better lubrication - your engine will run quiter
2) Bio - saves the world

Negative
1) Gels more quickly - be careful in the winter
2) More Solvent - will clean all of the dirt out of your fuel system and clog your fuel filter or introduce it into your engine - especially in older engines.

My personal reccomendation: Use 2% or 5% to maintain your warranty and gain some of the advantages, while minimizing the negatives.

P.S. The higher the concentration, the more the exhaust will smell like french fries.

RichardS

Resurrecting this old thread to see if anyone here has started using biodiesel yet. We just bought a used 320 and I am considering B20 despite the fact that MB only approves up to B5.

Has anyone been running something higher than B5?

StevethePilot

I'd be exceptionally careful about using something other than an approved mixture of biodiesel unless you're prepared to pay to replace the engine; from what I've seen and read, it can be quite caustic to certain engine parts and will move any accumulated crud into the system, where it can clog anything from filters to injectors.

Just my 2 cents' worth!

midnightz

I'll be using biodiesel in our 320. I firmly believe that there shouldn't be any worries long as the fuel was purchased from a ASTM certified processor, ie, not "home-brewed", SVO, WVO...etc. It is the main reason for us to purchase this car.

I've been running B99 in a 83 diesel since I bought it a year ago and I have not had any clog or accumulated crud issue. I too was concerned with it being an 83 with 160K and with more solvent content in B99, it would clean the dirty fuel system and clog the fuel filter; however, the only stall incident I had was in the early fall that the B99 gel'ed one morning on my way to work. Fixed that by "diluting" it with petro-diesel.

Unfortunately, the price of biodiesel went up recently and most of the biodiesel retailers around us would only offer B20.

Brocktoon

I think the biggest risk is to the common rail pump, but that being said most cars manufactured in this decade use solvent resistant plastics. I think I would ramp up to B20 rather than hit it all at once if you are dead set on giving it a try, you don't want the solvent action to break all the guck free at once. Fuel filters ar like a three hour job on a GL, or so I hear...

lkchris

Just so you're aware ... this engine is NOT like your father's diesel. Fuel injectors are $750 each, fuel pump is $1500. Etc.

dgiturbo

I asked this same question in the ML section. Click this link. https://mbworld.org/forums/m-class-w164/237782-biodiesel-cdi.html
I agree that as long as it meets the ASTM standard, there should be no issues. There must be someone in the world that has or is using this. If I could find it, I would, but the nearest pump is over 200 miles from me, and cost MORE!!
Oh well.

Brocktoon

you can always give Willie Nelson a call next time he's on Alex Jones...

dgiturbo

If only...
I am actually considering the home made alternative. Just can't find a raw material source yet. Found a good Government report that indicates no damage to the DPF or other systems. See this. http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels...pdfs/40015.pdf

Also Mercedes has been testing a C class CDI in India running on biodiesel made from the Jatropha plant. Click this. http://www.daimler.com/dccom/0,,0-5-...-0-0-0,00.html

Soon we diesel owners will have our day. 20c per Gal. made at home, grown at home. Then all will be right with the world..

wmhjr

Good luck with that - not likely. Have you heard the more recent news about Biodiesel in germany, the UK and the US? Thus far it has not even remotely met expectations in terms of environmental impact and cost. Strong likelihood that among other things, tax incentives will be removed.

StevethePilot

I would be very interested in reading up on that. Because of the long history of biodiesel use by farm equipment, city busses and certain other industrial or government equipment in the US, I had assumed that the way to go would be recycled used cooking oil. What are some of the problems they're coming up with?

wmhjr

Several problems - and interestingly enough there were several discussions about over the past few days on NPR. In some cases it actually emits higher emissions than gasoline or normal diesel (ultralow). More importantly, after finally getting some actual historical data it appears that biodiesel often actually consumes more energy to create than it results in. When factoring in all the costs there is a heck of alot of fossil fuel involved in every gallon of biodiesel that is created. Another issue is that where you find heavy investment in biodiesel you also find higher food prices as a result of the competing demand for the same natural resources. Finally, for those who are purely ecologically minded, biodiesel has resulted in relatively large amounts of deforestation in order to create land to grow the natural ingredients for fuel.

Biodiesel just does not scale for more common use.

StevethePilot

Is there a site you could point me to that could tell me what kind of emissions they're talking about? Also, are they talking about "new" biodiesel when they say there's a lot of fossil fuel in it, or recycled stuff which is already used and is just headed for the landfill (where it will do no damage as its biodegradable)? I think this sounds a lot more like anti-ethanol arguments (which I completely agree with) than anti-biodiesel arguments. Ethanol is a waste of resources, energy, and so forth, whereas reused oil either refined into biodiesel or simply burned with its solids intact (which can be done in the right pre-heated environment) doesn't seem to fit the argument you're presenting. I'm sure I'm just not understanding it properly.

STP

Brocktoon

+1 everyone gets this one confused. You can even make biodiesel outta soylent green.

dgiturbo

I think WMHJR is confusing the Ethanol argument. Ethanol does have its drawbacks, but most of the bio diesel being generated is waste vegetable oil from restaurants, (hence the "french fry" smell) and the I have yet to find ANY data to support that it produces more harmful emissions than fossil fuel.
The food stock that is grown for fuel, corn/soy etc is from existing farmers not from deforestations, thus the recent rise in food prices. In my view, the Jatropha plant, which is a non edible weed, is the way we should be looking towards. High oil yield per acre, non competition with food, and the best, it grows best in the worst places.
I think there must be someone in the world that is running their 07+ CDI on higher than B5. If so please respond... Else, I will be the first when I find/make some.
Wish Willie Nelson would jump in here

dunderhi

I believe most commercial biodiesel is soy based. The french fry smell is actually caused by the vegetable oil and not the potatoes. I'm lucky enough to have commercial source of B100 only 3 miles from my home, so I have had plenty of opportunity to play with bio. I have used it straight and in numerous blends since 2002 in my tractor with no problems, well other than gelling in initial winter. If I had a diesel car, I personally wouldn't worry about it. Then again, I don't worry about break-in periods either.

Also the biodiesel websites claims cleaner emissions than fossil diesel.

Below are pics from B100 and B0 seasons.

dieseldel

On the diesel truck forums this is a favorite topic.
It seems that emissions is mostly better from biodiesel, but its not all that simple. If there is a catalytic converter, it can be harmed by some bio-fuels, but not all, as far as I know.
An old diesel engine may have problems with it, as even a small percentage of bio will cause the old type gaskets to shrink. Leaks and more leaks. The cummins guys who run bio are seeing quite a bit of this problem. The new engines, however mostly use different gasket materials so this is not an issue with them.
The new clean common rail systems require the fuel to be VERY clean. That means you have to strain out the french fries (I couldn't resist)
Anyhow, cummins says the percentage of biodiesel to regular diesel must be low, else it can affect the pump and injectors.
The lubricity of biodiesel is mostly better than the ultra-low sulfur we get forced on us that has 20% less energy per gallon than we used to get 5 years ago.
The detriments may be $$$:
1. If you cook up your own fuel in the garage, its really hard to tax it. (how terrible...hahah)
2. Violates most warrantees. (oh well)
3. What to do with the sludge you strain out. (mulch for neighbors flowers?)
4. messes up some kinds of seals (older engines mostly)
5. variable gel-point of fuel. When it gets cold, it could turn to jelly and plug up your pump or fuel lines. This could be very expensive. It will ruin a pump pretty fast as a gel. The gel point is not consistent like fuel from a refinery.
6. Overall, not as much energy per gallon as petroleum diesel
7. kids could get addicted to fast-food while you're picking up oil

Benefits are:
1. clean burning
2. super cheap for you to make (kinda messy though)
3. better lubricity than standard fuel
4. kids can play at McDonalds while you're pumping out their used oil

Lots of guys running bio successfully, but usually low percentage like 5%.
We have 2 guys locally making biodiesel from french fry juice, and they swear by it. So far both have no problems at all.

wmhjr

I am most certainly NOT confusing ethanol with Biodiesel. Also, you are very very much mistaken about the source of "most biodiesel". You really need to do some research about it yourself.

StevethePilot

Whatever happened to that "offal-to-crude" machine some guy was making? He could take just about anything, apply heat and pressure, and come up with a heavy crude (something good for like generators and such) with burnable by-products that helped generate the power the machine needed.

StevethePilot

Those guys over at GreaseCar have some good information on using veg oil in cars. They also have fuel heating methods that prevent gelling of even straight vegetable oil (aka "SVO"), though that system requires stopping and starting on regular diesel so that's what is in your lines to begin with.

They also have a little information on the differences between BD and SVO.

From another source;
And again;
So I cannot find anything saying that Biodiesel has more emissions than petrolium diesel, [correction: see NOX info above] but the use of SVO isn't technically legal as a fuel. Means you've got to remove the glycerine before loading up! It's interesting. Lots more research to do.

STP