M-B Deutschland Konfigurator (Build your own)
10-01-2007, 06:57 PM
#52
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'06 A6 & '08 GL550
Agreed Nish. Fahrer... I know I certainly appreciate the POV you provide. I love the debate!
As a first time MB owner, I am consistently amazed by the passion of the owners on these forums. Although the forums only represent a small portion of total MB owners, they certainly speak well for the brand. Consumers really love their MB's!
Personally, while I agree with the opinions expressed here on the ability to customize the vehicle down to the most minute detail, I also know that there is no way that I would want to pay sooooo much more for that flexibility (as Fahrer points out). An $85K SUV is plenty rich for me, but again, that is just my POV.
Life is all about choices... you make the best ones you can with the options you are given. Right now, if you want a SUV with a silky smooth transmission that is also large, but drives like a sports car, then the GL is your choice. The Q7 and X5 just can't compare with the size of the cargo area of the GL, or the 3rd row of seats.
As a first time MB owner, I am consistently amazed by the passion of the owners on these forums. Although the forums only represent a small portion of total MB owners, they certainly speak well for the brand. Consumers really love their MB's!
Personally, while I agree with the opinions expressed here on the ability to customize the vehicle down to the most minute detail, I also know that there is no way that I would want to pay sooooo much more for that flexibility (as Fahrer points out). An $85K SUV is plenty rich for me, but again, that is just my POV.
Life is all about choices... you make the best ones you can with the options you are given. Right now, if you want a SUV with a silky smooth transmission that is also large, but drives like a sports car, then the GL is your choice. The Q7 and X5 just can't compare with the size of the cargo area of the GL, or the 3rd row of seats.
10-01-2007, 07:52 PM
#53
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1972 Chevy Vega 2300 - Panel Express
I agree that the customer is always right..Afterall, I'm a customer too.
But we are not the "Normal" M-B customer. We are the 10% minority...the edges of the bell curve.
Believe it or not, 90% of all M-B purchases are sold from dealer stock (including pipeline). So 90% of all cars built for M-B must be saleable before the customer sets foot in the door. In fact, most M-B buyers are not interested in ordering a car at all, the prospect of waiting two months for a car is usually a deal breaker.
So while we are sitting here and spending time debating the "crapiness" of running boards, 90% of M-B owners are doing non-M-B things.
So we can debate "what the customer wants", but the reality is, we only buy a minority of vehicles. Most customers have no idea what options are offered in Germany or Belgium. But they are aware that DVD nav is cool, and that BMW has a $329/mo lease.
I'm not saying that M-B cares only for the 90%, but they cannot afford to cater to the 10% crowd when the dealers want cars that sell immediately.
250K 90% cars works better for M-B than 50K 100% cars.
But we are not the "Normal" M-B customer. We are the 10% minority...the edges of the bell curve.
Believe it or not, 90% of all M-B purchases are sold from dealer stock (including pipeline). So 90% of all cars built for M-B must be saleable before the customer sets foot in the door. In fact, most M-B buyers are not interested in ordering a car at all, the prospect of waiting two months for a car is usually a deal breaker.
So while we are sitting here and spending time debating the "crapiness" of running boards, 90% of M-B owners are doing non-M-B things.
So we can debate "what the customer wants", but the reality is, we only buy a minority of vehicles. Most customers have no idea what options are offered in Germany or Belgium. But they are aware that DVD nav is cool, and that BMW has a $329/mo lease.
I'm not saying that M-B cares only for the 90%, but they cannot afford to cater to the 10% crowd when the dealers want cars that sell immediately.
250K 90% cars works better for M-B than 50K 100% cars.
Last edited by GL Fahrer; 10-01-2007 at 07:55 PM.
10-01-2007, 08:14 PM
#54
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E550 4MATIC
I agree that the customer is always right..Afterall, I'm a customer too.
But we are not the "Normal" M-B customer. We are the 10% minority...the edges of the bell curve.
Believe it or not, 90% of all M-B purchases are sold from dealer stock (including pipeline). So 90% of all cars built for M-B must be saleable before the customer sets foot in the door. In fact, most M-B buyers are not interested in ordering a car at all, the prospect of waiting two months for a car is usually a deal breaker.
So while we are sitting here and spending time debating the "crapiness" of running boards, 90% of M-B owners are doing non-M-B things.
So we can debate "what the customer wants", but the reality is, we only buy a minority of vehicles. Most customers have no idea what options are offered in Germany or Belgium. But they are aware that DVD nav is cool, and that BMW has a $329/mo lease.
I'm not saying that M-B cares only for the 90%, but they cannot afford to cater to the 10% crowd when the dealers want cars that sell immediately.
250K 90% cars works better for M-B than 50K 100% cars.
But we are not the "Normal" M-B customer. We are the 10% minority...the edges of the bell curve.
Believe it or not, 90% of all M-B purchases are sold from dealer stock (including pipeline). So 90% of all cars built for M-B must be saleable before the customer sets foot in the door. In fact, most M-B buyers are not interested in ordering a car at all, the prospect of waiting two months for a car is usually a deal breaker.
So while we are sitting here and spending time debating the "crapiness" of running boards, 90% of M-B owners are doing non-M-B things.
So we can debate "what the customer wants", but the reality is, we only buy a minority of vehicles. Most customers have no idea what options are offered in Germany or Belgium. But they are aware that DVD nav is cool, and that BMW has a $329/mo lease.
I'm not saying that M-B cares only for the 90%, but they cannot afford to cater to the 10% crowd when the dealers want cars that sell immediately.
250K 90% cars works better for M-B than 50K 100% cars.
I still think that it should be explored by MBUSA to look into a process to allow customers to spec non-US equippment. It can't be that hard for them to add options as someone else posted, that are approved, designed, and work perfectly with the models.
10-01-2007, 08:35 PM
#55
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I agree that the customer is always right..Afterall, I'm a customer too.
But we are not the "Normal" M-B customer. We are the 10% minority...the edges of the bell curve.
Believe it or not, 90% of all M-B purchases are sold from dealer stock (including pipeline). So 90% of all cars built for M-B must be saleable before the customer sets foot in the door. In fact, most M-B buyers are not interested in ordering a car at all, the prospect of waiting two months for a car is usually a deal breaker.
So while we are sitting here and spending time debating the "crapiness" of running boards, 90% of M-B owners are doing non-M-B things.
So we can debate "what the customer wants", but the reality is, we only buy a minority of vehicles. Most customers have no idea what options are offered in Germany or Belgium. But they are aware that DVD nav is cool, and that BMW has a $329/mo lease.
I'm not saying that M-B cares only for the 90%, but they cannot afford to cater to the 10% crowd when the dealers want cars that sell immediately.
250K 90% cars works better for M-B than 50K 100% cars.
But we are not the "Normal" M-B customer. We are the 10% minority...the edges of the bell curve.
Believe it or not, 90% of all M-B purchases are sold from dealer stock (including pipeline). So 90% of all cars built for M-B must be saleable before the customer sets foot in the door. In fact, most M-B buyers are not interested in ordering a car at all, the prospect of waiting two months for a car is usually a deal breaker.
So while we are sitting here and spending time debating the "crapiness" of running boards, 90% of M-B owners are doing non-M-B things.
So we can debate "what the customer wants", but the reality is, we only buy a minority of vehicles. Most customers have no idea what options are offered in Germany or Belgium. But they are aware that DVD nav is cool, and that BMW has a $329/mo lease.
I'm not saying that M-B cares only for the 90%, but they cannot afford to cater to the 10% crowd when the dealers want cars that sell immediately.
250K 90% cars works better for M-B than 50K 100% cars.
10-01-2007, 10:21 PM
#56
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1972 Chevy Vega 2300 - Panel Express
M-B just defines success in a different way than others. There is no doubt that they are different company than before the merger. But once they took-on the "C" and dropped the "B" they had to adopt a volume strategy to keep DCAG afloat.
The term: "corporate arrogance" implies that M-B in the U.S.A. is now conducting practices it knows to be detrimental. Let's be clear...M-B is conducting business to sell more cars than the year before, with a higher contribution of profit to DAG.
Maybe another topic, but true to this one, M-B (U.S.A.) is just a wholesale outfit which buys volume from DAG and sells cars to independant dealers. DAG basically tells them how many cars they have to buy and the dealers tell them how they must be built to sell them. The message from dealers is "Simplicity" and "price". In 13 years MB sales in the USA have grown 400%. There's just no incentive to change to a custom order shop.
The term: "corporate arrogance" implies that M-B in the U.S.A. is now conducting practices it knows to be detrimental. Let's be clear...M-B is conducting business to sell more cars than the year before, with a higher contribution of profit to DAG.
Maybe another topic, but true to this one, M-B (U.S.A.) is just a wholesale outfit which buys volume from DAG and sells cars to independant dealers. DAG basically tells them how many cars they have to buy and the dealers tell them how they must be built to sell them. The message from dealers is "Simplicity" and "price". In 13 years MB sales in the USA have grown 400%. There's just no incentive to change to a custom order shop.
Last edited by GL Fahrer; 10-01-2007 at 10:51 PM.
10-01-2007, 10:35 PM
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1972 Chevy Vega 2300 - Panel Express
I think you hit the nail on the head, as sad as it is.
I still think that it should be explored by MBUSA to look into a process to allow customers to spec non-US equippment. It can't be that hard for them to add options as someone else posted, that are approved, designed, and work perfectly with the models.
I still think that it should be explored by MBUSA to look into a process to allow customers to spec non-US equippment. It can't be that hard for them to add options as someone else posted, that are approved, designed, and work perfectly with the models.
But in the end, how many options are really not available to U.S. customers?
There are many more standard features on U.S. models than on European models compared to the number of unavailable options.
10-01-2007, 11:05 PM
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'07 GL 450, '02 S 80 T6
Originally Posted by pmb600
I still think that it should be explored by MBUSA to look into a process to allow customers to spec non-US equippment. It can't be that hard for them to add options as someone else posted, that are approved, designed, and work perfectly with the models.
That can only add to the profits, the way I see it. Charge a premium for these cars but at least offer them.
10-01-2007, 11:43 PM
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Currently Driving a BMW 325 Sport Wagon
Regarding options that are not available to us in the USA, I am sure there are a number of posts on this topic… The options I want are available in the USA, they are available on the GL platform however, they are not available on my desired trim line (GL 320).
I like the communication here, I really do. I will again state that MB sales are up yes - so too are the rest of the pack (BMW, Lexus...) This is a luxury segment phenomenon not just a MB "win."
I agree that 75% of the customers driving MB's or high-end vehicles don't care too much about the content (i.e. they will buy off the lot) and I know dealers want to sell to the masses - I get it.
Now please don't take this out of context - what I don't understand is why MB and the dealers wouldn't work (a little harder) on behalf of some very passionate customers.
GL Fahrer to your points - and they are well taken, I don't see how a large production company can make a totally custom car for everyone that seems to be a bit of a stretch however, I am still not drinking the Kool-Aid on platform specific contenting that is available, approved, and engineered -- but not offered on a trim line or within a particular country.
It is my assumption that with the custom contenting changes BMW has made to my vehicles over the years that they made a lot more money on me than they did jamming some stock car out the door to someone who likes their car but doesn't spend time championing the brand like I do.
Now I am on a mission to do what ever I can to get a GL. I love the damm thing, I want a full size luxury diesel suv however, I am set on a few options that I must have or I won't feel the car is set up for me. Call me crazy but that’s what BMW got me use to.
*I have a bad back; I want the multi contour seats.
*I think the GL is a bit floaty at high speed and driving on I95 here in S FL during rush hour I need to have the sport mode (ADSII) active in case I need to quickly avoid some of my "wonderful" S.FL drivers.
What I am starting to get really frustrated with at MB - both at the dealer level and at the National level is the – story of, “It just can't be done…” and “It’s not worth your time to try…” To make matters worse, I usually get a "talking too" on why MB doesn't see the value in making minor changes for customers and how they "can't" do this it’s just not done...
What I would love to hear for once is, “You know what, you have a good point, let me make a phone call, let me talk to the factory, let me have the dealer owner get personally involved, lets talk to the HQ and really ask some questions.”
I am telling you -- when I want to plunk down a heavy $70 something for a luxury suv hearing this inflexibility doesn't make me feel all that warm and fuzzy over the possible upcoming relationship I could enter into with MB.
I’ll give a perennial example of consummate customer service. I went to Nordstrom’s last weekend and bought a pair of jeans. They are nice jeans not over the top nice but let’s call them “luxury denim.” Ok so I found the perfect pair of jeans but – hmmm the paint leg was just not working for me, they needed tailoring.
So the Nordstrom tailor visits with me, gives me about a dozen options to select from on how they could tailor my jeans then – now get this - I was asked if I wanted Nordstrom to custom order the unique stitching that was used for the jeans – from the original manufacturer - to make my alteration. OR they could use standard replacement stitching but from an aesthetics perspective that may only work for some people, lets call them the masses… Most would be satisfied with the standard option I took the custom option – go figure.
Did I know this special stitching option was available – nope – was I happy to hear that my “luxury denim” would be fitted out to a very high level for my personal use – yes – will I repurchase at Nordstrom – yes they will continue to be my store as long as the product and willingness to serve remain at their current high levels and I’ll always tell everyone where I shop and why.
I am sure this debate will rage on… Many industries and customer facing companies are embracing a more individualized connected relationship with their customers. Why – because it works – it pays for itself – builds brand equity and connects with customers in ways that a print or TV campaign never will. It makes me an emotional brand advocate and invaluable to companies that focus on my needs.
I like the communication here, I really do. I will again state that MB sales are up yes - so too are the rest of the pack (BMW, Lexus...) This is a luxury segment phenomenon not just a MB "win."
I agree that 75% of the customers driving MB's or high-end vehicles don't care too much about the content (i.e. they will buy off the lot) and I know dealers want to sell to the masses - I get it.
Now please don't take this out of context - what I don't understand is why MB and the dealers wouldn't work (a little harder) on behalf of some very passionate customers.
GL Fahrer to your points - and they are well taken, I don't see how a large production company can make a totally custom car for everyone that seems to be a bit of a stretch however, I am still not drinking the Kool-Aid on platform specific contenting that is available, approved, and engineered -- but not offered on a trim line or within a particular country.
It is my assumption that with the custom contenting changes BMW has made to my vehicles over the years that they made a lot more money on me than they did jamming some stock car out the door to someone who likes their car but doesn't spend time championing the brand like I do.
Now I am on a mission to do what ever I can to get a GL. I love the damm thing, I want a full size luxury diesel suv however, I am set on a few options that I must have or I won't feel the car is set up for me. Call me crazy but that’s what BMW got me use to.
*I have a bad back; I want the multi contour seats.
*I think the GL is a bit floaty at high speed and driving on I95 here in S FL during rush hour I need to have the sport mode (ADSII) active in case I need to quickly avoid some of my "wonderful" S.FL drivers.
What I am starting to get really frustrated with at MB - both at the dealer level and at the National level is the – story of, “It just can't be done…” and “It’s not worth your time to try…” To make matters worse, I usually get a "talking too" on why MB doesn't see the value in making minor changes for customers and how they "can't" do this it’s just not done...
What I would love to hear for once is, “You know what, you have a good point, let me make a phone call, let me talk to the factory, let me have the dealer owner get personally involved, lets talk to the HQ and really ask some questions.”
I am telling you -- when I want to plunk down a heavy $70 something for a luxury suv hearing this inflexibility doesn't make me feel all that warm and fuzzy over the possible upcoming relationship I could enter into with MB.
I’ll give a perennial example of consummate customer service. I went to Nordstrom’s last weekend and bought a pair of jeans. They are nice jeans not over the top nice but let’s call them “luxury denim.” Ok so I found the perfect pair of jeans but – hmmm the paint leg was just not working for me, they needed tailoring.
So the Nordstrom tailor visits with me, gives me about a dozen options to select from on how they could tailor my jeans then – now get this - I was asked if I wanted Nordstrom to custom order the unique stitching that was used for the jeans – from the original manufacturer - to make my alteration. OR they could use standard replacement stitching but from an aesthetics perspective that may only work for some people, lets call them the masses… Most would be satisfied with the standard option I took the custom option – go figure.
Did I know this special stitching option was available – nope – was I happy to hear that my “luxury denim” would be fitted out to a very high level for my personal use – yes – will I repurchase at Nordstrom – yes they will continue to be my store as long as the product and willingness to serve remain at their current high levels and I’ll always tell everyone where I shop and why.
I am sure this debate will rage on… Many industries and customer facing companies are embracing a more individualized connected relationship with their customers. Why – because it works – it pays for itself – builds brand equity and connects with customers in ways that a print or TV campaign never will. It makes me an emotional brand advocate and invaluable to companies that focus on my needs.
Exceptions are made often. Sometimes it's just a matter of perseverance or name dropping.
But in the end, how many options are really not available to U.S. customers?
There are many more standard features on U.S. models than on European models compared to the number of unavailable options.
But in the end, how many options are really not available to U.S. customers?
There are many more standard features on U.S. models than on European models compared to the number of unavailable options.
10-01-2007, 11:58 PM
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10-02-2007, 07:30 AM
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THANK YOU Jlight!
I would only add that all luxury auto manufacturers have seen healthy profits in the past decade but the market is going to continue to increase in competitveness. Those that survive will be able to offer individuality, quality, and performance. Does anyone here think that we would have considered Lexus, Infiniti, Audi etc. to be in the same realm as MB 20 years ago?
I would only add that all luxury auto manufacturers have seen healthy profits in the past decade but the market is going to continue to increase in competitveness. Those that survive will be able to offer individuality, quality, and performance. Does anyone here think that we would have considered Lexus, Infiniti, Audi etc. to be in the same realm as MB 20 years ago?
10-02-2007, 04:48 PM
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2007 GL450
We can yell at each other all we want about what we would like MB to do, but basically they are not going to change because of what we post. We are a very small sample of the national feeling and needs about automobiles. MB has professionals helping them figure out what will sell and what will make money for them. We are enthusiast's, not automobile design and marketing specialists.
I live in Alabama and my dealership doesn't even know how to call Vance if they had to. It's a big company, it's compartmentalized, there is a chain of command for ideas, changes and problem solving.
Jlight, it looks like you won't be able to buy a GL320 this year because they don't offer the 2 things you really want, ADS and Multicontour seats. Oh well, maybe they will offer it in 2009, maybe in 2010, or maybe NOT. Or maybe they will remove some feature or option you really like now and then you will be annoyed in 2009 or 2010 because it is no longer there. You can't out guess MB-USA, they have totally differnet priorities.
I have a 2008 GL320 on order without multicontour seats, even though I have them in my present 2007 GL450. They are just OK in my opinion. If they were still available in 2008 I probably would have ordered them again, but I am "over it" the fact that MB decided to pull them.
It's like computer technology, you can keep waiting for the fastest processor and memory, best graphics card and newest techology hard drive, but eventually you have to jump in and buy something or go without a computer. But you do so knowing the 4 to 6 months later there is going to be something better.
MB might have some great ideas for 2009. GLFahrer has already posted that in 2009 they will have a dual DVD dual screen RSE. That would be great, I had to go with a after market system in my GL450 because I wanted dual DVD's.
There is a rumor out there that there will be an upgrade to the Navigation in 2009. You guys have probably seen it on the internet, it has to do with Apple being involved with MB to design the next generation of NAV for MB (I repeat: a rumor). I don't think the NAV is great now, but I am not going to wait and see if MB decides to improve it next year or not.
It's like Rumsfield said "you go to war with the Army that you have." We have to hit the road with the vehicle that MB builds now, or we don't hit the road.
Jlight, I suggest you buy a 2008 GL320 and enjoy the economy, comfort, convenience and SAFETY features for you and your family. There a plenty of aftermarket lumbar supports for your back. The lumbar support in the MC seats is not designed that great, I have been using them for 6 months now.
Thanks,
Gordon
I live in Alabama and my dealership doesn't even know how to call Vance if they had to. It's a big company, it's compartmentalized, there is a chain of command for ideas, changes and problem solving.
Jlight, it looks like you won't be able to buy a GL320 this year because they don't offer the 2 things you really want, ADS and Multicontour seats. Oh well, maybe they will offer it in 2009, maybe in 2010, or maybe NOT. Or maybe they will remove some feature or option you really like now and then you will be annoyed in 2009 or 2010 because it is no longer there. You can't out guess MB-USA, they have totally differnet priorities.
I have a 2008 GL320 on order without multicontour seats, even though I have them in my present 2007 GL450. They are just OK in my opinion. If they were still available in 2008 I probably would have ordered them again, but I am "over it" the fact that MB decided to pull them.
It's like computer technology, you can keep waiting for the fastest processor and memory, best graphics card and newest techology hard drive, but eventually you have to jump in and buy something or go without a computer. But you do so knowing the 4 to 6 months later there is going to be something better.
MB might have some great ideas for 2009. GLFahrer has already posted that in 2009 they will have a dual DVD dual screen RSE. That would be great, I had to go with a after market system in my GL450 because I wanted dual DVD's.
There is a rumor out there that there will be an upgrade to the Navigation in 2009. You guys have probably seen it on the internet, it has to do with Apple being involved with MB to design the next generation of NAV for MB (I repeat: a rumor). I don't think the NAV is great now, but I am not going to wait and see if MB decides to improve it next year or not.
It's like Rumsfield said "you go to war with the Army that you have." We have to hit the road with the vehicle that MB builds now, or we don't hit the road.
Jlight, I suggest you buy a 2008 GL320 and enjoy the economy, comfort, convenience and SAFETY features for you and your family. There a plenty of aftermarket lumbar supports for your back. The lumbar support in the MC seats is not designed that great, I have been using them for 6 months now.
Thanks,
Gordon
