South Ocean1

xxGenericSNxx and BlownV8:

Thanks you for the info. My dealer is one of Renntech's authorized retailers so I presume they would be accepting of a Renntech mod purchased through them (but would of course find out).

I was thinking about this in the context of whether to spend the $6,500 for the performance package or the $2,900 for the Renntech tune when the GL63 comes out. I like the idea of the tune coming from the factory but think MB is just plain greedy with that price tag and am having troubling paying what would be almost pure profit to them (after what would already be a hefty bill). I am still of the view that if you buy an AMG version, the engine (except for Black Series) should have one state of high tune (like BMW M cars) and not follow the Porsche cash-rich model of "regular" turbos and turbo "S"s. And the Renntech tune would seem to coax even more hp and torque out of the engine then the performance pack tune. Then again, wouldn't the stock 536 hp be enough. I am not sure what I would do.

BlownV8: Could you tell if it was reflashed to stock?? I would think the difference between very fast and very very fast is very hard to tell by the seat of the pants. Then again, I have never had a tune on a turbo/superchared engine where the difference may be obvious.

Kind regards,

BlownV8

When I had my CL600 ECU/TCU tuned by Renntech, it completely changed the character of the car. The change in power was huge. I gained over 120 RWHP with the tune. Took the car from having adequate power to being very quick and much more fun to drive.

I would save the money and go with the Renntech tune and get the extra 110+ HP on the 63 over and above the performance package tune. As long as your dealer is mod friendly, you should be OK if you purchase the tune from them. They are going to be much more likely to back you if you ever have any issues. I highly recommend Renntech.

justthebest

Nobody picked this up yet?

http://jalopnik.com/5899832/did-merc...he-2013-gl-amg

justthebest

xxGenericSNxx

Two things tell me immediately why that ISN'T the GL AMG. 1, the brakes 2, the fenders.

http://www.carblank.com/wp-content/u...AMG-Wheels.jpg

As you can see, the new trend for AMG cars is to have the beltline of the car come back and create a crease around the area where it says "V8 BITURBO." The GL lacks those.


What's puzzling is how the GL63 will look different than the GL w/ sport pack because on the ML, the bumpers aren't as aggressive as the AMG. Whereas on the GL, the sport bumpers look very similar to the ML63. Makes me wonder how the AMG will be differentiated, if at all.




@South Ocean. I was thinking the same thing as well. If you take a look at Renntech's webpage and read up on the ECU tune for 63 cars with and without the AMG performance pack, the end result is the SAME horsepower! That means all AMG does is a mild software change for the performance pack. You basically end up paying $6k for red brakes, higher top speed limiter, alcantara edged steering wheel, and CF engine cover. So you can determine if that's worth it to you or not- all of those things can be fitted ex-factory. The way I look at it is that I'd get the Renntech tune regardless if I had the performance pack or not. I'd probably want red or other colored brakes so I'd have a shop paint them for ~$500. I don't care about the alcantara steering wheel since it'll get dirty from sweat and everyday use easily and the top speed limiter is automatically raised with a Renntech chip. This just leaves the CF airbox which I haven't found yet for the new engines.
Maybe save the $6k and get the B&O sound system instead? (and also get the Renntech chip and call it a day)

BlownV8

Yes, that is correct. Renntech tune takes the twin-turbo 63 engine from 518 hp to 669 hp. The performance package has 550 hp and it too goes to 669 hp with their tune. Save your money and just get the tune. Will make for a very fun GL.

Trimmer2

Regarding your dealer question, RennTech puts a sticker on/near the ECU plug that says that it has a different program and to contact the owner if they need to change it. Fortunately, my dealer is RennTech friendly and has sold a number of RennTech tuned cars brand new off the showroom floor. If by chance the dealer needs to do something to the program, I can either drive to WPB to get it flashed again at no charge, or Renntech can email the program to the dealer and they can do it. It takes all of 30 seconds...or less.

...and yes, anyone who knows their car will DEFINITELY feel the difference if the dealer reflashes to stock program. There's a significant difference in throttle response at least with my old SL600. And remember, it's an upgrade of 100hp or 25% so, no mistaking that!

Trimmer2

It would be hard for me to believe they'd put the V12 in the GL. I noticed a SIGNIFICANT difference in handling in my SL600 vs SL55. The V12 is a VERY heavy engine and I felt it on every corner. Putting that engine up in the air in a GL would really affect handling. On the other hand, I can see needing the V12 when people start adding aftermarket armor to the vehicle which can add 1000's of lbs to the weight and needing the grunt of the V12 to get moving. Maybe a GL65?? I don't think so but, I'm wrong a lot too....

Trimmer2

This is what is confusing me. I read in one of the GL links from this board that the GL550 will come with 429hp which is up 47hp from '12. So, is this the smaller V8 TT tuned to 429 or the larger V8 TT not tuned? I believe there are two different twin turbo V8's that MB offers. Which V8 will come in the 450?

Also, I had a SL600 tuned by Renntech (engine and transmission) saving a LOT of money compared to buying a SL65...$60k+). I talked with Hartmut quite a bit about he differences between standard and AMG models. Remember, AMG engines are built/assembled by AMG and there are a number of other behind the scenes tweaks, mods, attention and etc that AMG gives the car vs regular models. Some items could be the type of brake lines, to number of calipers in the brakes to size of rotors to reinforced this to reinforced that to suspension tune to exhaust tune to ..............???? much of which may not be published. You're still paying a premium for the AMG badge but, I believe there are a number hidden gems that make it a superior product over the standard car. It's not all about horsepower.

My next MB's will be AMG's because of the little things ...and my budget is allowing it too. On the other hand, if the AMG's keep depreciating as much as they have in the first two years, my budget will have to adapt too! I'm sure MB is well aware of how their AMG customers have been taking it on the chin/wallet so, they'll either have to come out with a FAR BETTER product (ala standard Designio interiors, limited production or..........?) to help keep their value or they'll loose their premium customers to competitors.

I believe a few years ago, there was a LOT more discretionary money flying around and many were wanting/buying AMG's which caused MB to up their production considerably and almost flooding the market (I say that loosely because of the South Florida market vs say midwest) where there were more AMG's in a restaurant parking lot than in possibly the whole state of Minnesota. That loose money is no longer here in the US but, maybe now in China, India Russia? Maybe MUCH smaller allocations to US dealers which would prop up the AMG's used value becoming more dear? MB Ft Laud thought they'd only get 2-3 GL63's IF they became available. That is NOT very many for this market and would surely keep the used value strong.

I've always had the philosophy that it's a LOT easier to cancel an order than to get on a list for a potentially desirable car/product. If the car comes, I'm first. if it doesn't nobody is harmed. If I decide not to take delivery, there's always the next guy on the list. Everyone wins assuming I don't' build a custom lavender car with a pink interior. The key is keeping in tune to what might be coming down the pike regarding new models, changing models (7 year cycles) or........?

I did the same thing with my SL600 and my Audi Q7 (I was first in So Fl to take delivery May'06 and I still have and love the Audi BUT, the '13 will only have minor styling changes, lost a lot of weight but, also lost a lot of HP. I was hoping for a nice big turbo diesel V8 or V12 which could be tuned with a LOT of grunt and speed and great gas mileage. Audi has disappointed thus my quest for a GL63 At the time, there was a 2-3 year wait list for the SL55 and a 1-2 year wait for the SL500 (I was late to the party) but, I heard in the wind there was the possibly of a SL600 coming in '04. The dealer knew nothing about it nor could they get any information (the V12 was a brand new engine and I believe was only offered in the S and Maybach). I asked to be first on the list if it indeed came to the US. Less than a month later, I got the call from the dealer MB would be selling the car in the US but, I was 2nd on the list. I asked "how was I 2nd when I told them about the car??" Well the owner of the dealership wanted one too (VERY HIGH PROFILE owner will be nameless). I spec'd the car in Aug '03 and took delivery late Oct '03 and actually took delivery one week before the owner got his Within the week, I had her in WPB for the first SL600 tune for RennTech. They'd tuned a few S and CL600's and hoped the SL would be very similar. We used the CL mapping but, it was unclear how/if the drop top would or would not affect the computer. The top can only operate of car is not moving for safety and no one knew how the the software would deal with that. Also the weight of the cars were different and I'm sure other minor details. I had ZERO problems but, as RennTech got smarter and smarter, they upgraded my flash a couple of times to keep current (I didn't feel any differences) and then flashed my transmission computer to match the SL65 AMG's shift points about 6 mos later.

So, I'm looking forward to some new AMG's and adding some RennTech magic powder. My biggest concern now, is enough space for all the badging!! ...or do I debadge and keep them wolves' in sheep's clothing

xxGenericSNxx

Nah, don't overbadge or else you'll end up like this:

dbtk

Correct. The photos above are of the GL550, and not the GL63. I don't think they have spec'd the exact body kit and alterations for the GL63 yet. At least that is what I was told at the 2013 GL walk-thru at the NYIAS on Thursday. It would be cool if they added some carbon fiber to the mirrors and front splitter.

BlownV8

Both the GL450 and 550 will use the 4.7 L engine. The 550 will have 429 hp and 516 lb-ft while the 450 will have 362 hp and 406 lb-ft of torque. Judging by the hp and torque both engines will be twin turbo. The power difference from the 550 will likely be from a better ECU tune. If this is actually the case, there would be no reason to get the 550 unless there is a huge appearance or trim difference.

xxGenericSNxx

I was thinking the same thing regarding purchasing the 550. If we see the ECU tune on the 450 and 550 to result in the same hp afterwards, then we know the 550 is pointless. The only advantages will be if they have better interior appointments/ more options/ slight exterior differences.

South Ocean1

xxGenericSNxx:

Your point about the AMG performance pack containing mostly cosmetic updates is a good one. It seemed like MB had to think hard about what they could add to that "potpourri" option package to make it's price point more palatable. And I am sure some may prefer one or more of those cosmetic upgrades (as you mentioned about the painted calipers). I guess at this point I would lean towards not purchasing that package and waiting to find out whether the "standard" 536 hp engine is enough or not. As others have pointed out, adding a Renntech tune would be easy to do at any time and result in even more power and torque. I will be curious to see if there will be a torque limitation on the GL63 as there is on the ML63. In performance pack guise, the ML63 is limited to "only" 560 ft-lbs of torque. I understand that has something to do with how much torque the front differential can/should handle (no issue with the transmission which is the same as used in the upcoming SL65).

As to the questions about what the GL63 will offer over the GL550, if the NY show scuttlebutt is accurate about the GL63 coming in +/-$110,000, which would put it at about a $25k premium over the GL550, then I think we know what we will get. The exterior (save for maybe some additional carbon fiber pieces) will be the same as the GL550 save for the V8 Bi-turbo badges on the fenders, the 21" AMG wheels from the ML63 and AMG twin exhaust tips. I think that is all that will be different on the exterior. The rest of the important differences will be the larger hand built AMG engine (tuned to match the horsepower and torque as the S-Class version if there is no torgue limitation), louder exhaust, better brakes, improved suspension tuning (too the extent possible on this large a beast) and the upgraded designio leather as standard. For a $25k premium over the GL550, those upgrades are enough for me to justify the GL63. As Trimmer2 noted, all those changes make the AMG version more special (to at least those of us who care about these things and are financial fools at the same time). I can't see MB making more changes than that with that price point difference. For me, that would be great because I don't need to spend any more for the GL63. I will be curious to see whether they limit production or not on the GL63. I suspect that MB will build as many as people want to order, just that dealers won't order than many without customers - much as happens now with the E63 wagon. I don't think there is any limitation on the numbers for the E63 wagon (could be wrong - just speculating), but there aren't too many that are ordered and only a few dealers will stock one without an order - resulting in a slim 50 to 75 shipped to the U.S. each year.

I do think the GL550 with the Renntech tune would make better financial sense - it will look almost identical to the GL63, with the same great presence, and it will be more than sufficiently fast with the tune. I am sure that is one of the questions MBUSA wrestled with when debating whether to bring/build a GL63 or not. That said, I am glad they have decided to bring us the GL63 because I am one of the few or us on this board and elsewhere who value (again foolishly) what the AMG version will offer.

Kind regards

South Ocean1

Sorry - I meant to add my thanks to BlownV8 and Trimmer2 for your feedback on your experience with a Renntech tune. It sounds like Renntech delivered on its promise to you without issue. That is great to here. Trimmer2, if you get a GL63, will you add a Renntech tune again as well???

While it is a more expensive tune than what others offer in the marketplace, I would be hard pressed to want to take any chances in reliability when purchasing a tune given how significant (in terms of engine affects) this upgrade would be. I know there are other newer tuners out there that are also good, but I would be looking for that piece of mind that comes with a long reputation.

Kind regards

dbtk

I understand from OE Tuning that their 5.5 TT tune is showing 560+ at the wheels. Now, that would make for a crazy GL63!
(Boy, do I feel sorry for all those with the old 6.2 engine.)

dbtk

Correct.

GL350 BlueTEC
6 turbo
2,987
240Hp @ 3,600
455lbs.ft. torque @ 1,600-2,400
0-60mph 8.3 (est.)
top speed 130 mph

GL450
8 turbo
4,663
362 @ 5,000-6000
406 @ 1,500-4,000
6.2 (est.)
130

GL550
8 turbo
4,663
429 @ 5,250
516 @ 1,800-3,500
5.5 (est.)
130

Trimmer2

I'll probably get the RennTech tune because of the drivability and throttle response. It makes a big difference around town and at least on my 600, a slight mpg increase (maybe 1 city). Also, a little known bit is that RennTech is the licensed software tuner from Bosch and sells their software to other tuners in North America including BMW, Ferrari, Porsche and etc....many or most of the the 'other' tuners which will remain nameless but, I believe all of them actually buy it FROM RennTech. The other tuners may then add hardware or cosmetics too.

From the factory, most engines come detuned as they won't know where the car will end up. It has a lot to do with quality of gas in US vs say Africa so the engines come from factory at 75-80% (guess) and RennTech advances the timing, opens turbo waste gates and etc to take advantage of Premium/High Octane fuel readily available in North America. I think I remember RennTech takes the tuning to 92-95% of what engine was designed and built for.

South Ocean1

Trimmer2:

Thanks for sharing your perspective on the Renntech tune. I wonder whether the GL63 will have a torque limitation like the ML63 and upcoming G63 which may make a tune less feasible for the GL63?

Seems the ML63 and upcoming G63 both restrict torque to a max of 560 (which I appreciate is already a massive number) and it does not look like the G63 will offer a performance package upgrade (I presume because they can't increase the torque any further). My understanding is that it is not a transmission concern (the 7 speed auto is the same unit used in the upcoming SL65) but has to do with the amount of torque the AWD system can handle routed to the front wheels. However, the not-for-US consumption G65 clearly has even higher horsepower and torque figures, so I wonder whether it has any differences in the AWD system to handle those higher numbers?

By the way, 2013 looks like it must be your lucky number (or year) with three AMG MBs on order. While it would be a wonderful luxury, why both an SL63 and SLS as they seem to overlap a bit?

Kind regards

Hfdafhx

is this the 550 or 550 with AMG package ? think the 350 or 450 have the same AMG package option you think? in the past you could only get the look on a 550 and there was no amg option

South Ocean1

For the U.S., I believe that is only how the GL550 will look (as well as the GL63 save for different wheels). The GL450 offers an "Appearance Package" with 20 inch wheels (not 21s), running boards and exposed exhausts but not the rest of the AMG bodywork. The GL350 only offers a 20 inch wheel option but no Appearance Package so no exposed exhausts on that fuel sipper. So if you want that look, you will have to get the GL550 (or move to Europe . . .). At least in the U.S., MB wants to distinguish its most expensive GL models to further justify (in buyers' minds) paying that premium.

Trimmer2

I'm first on the SLS list for the V8 Twin Turbo but, I probably won't take delivery of it after doing as much research as I could on the internet regarding existing cars and then prerelease info (not much here). I think the SL will fit my lifestyle/use better in regard to everyday driving. It seems the SLS lacks some bells & whistles for performance and there just isn't that much difference in performance on the street. The track, which I'll never go to, definitely tips the scale for the SLS.

So, save $50k +++ and be more comfortable in the SL. Just my thoughts for now.

South Ocean1

MBUSA announces the GL63 . . . . .

Okay, not quite, but MBUSA at least let slip a reference to the GL63 in 2012 GL Product Guide that Redbear posted on the "GL finally revealed" thread. If you look at page 7, the Product Guide notes that both the GL500 (European GL550) and GL63 have exposed exhausts. Wish I could glean more from the Product Guide about the GL63 but that was it. Better then nothing.

jtorrebl

Do you have concrete evidence of the 450 appearance package?

South Ocean1

Jtorrebl:

The appearance package is referenced in a number of sources, including the detailed blog at benzblogger.com. What detail are you specifically looking for?