KrustyKustom

Good to hear you two got your 350s fixed and running well. Since the timing chain replacement mine has been awesome (about 7k miles). Mileage has been better and engine is a smooth machine.

Even though it was a bummer going through this after warranty the vehicle is great. I just think they got a bad batch of timing chains in and around the 2011 model year.

B Marques

Guys I know the discussion is always about bad fuel but here is the deal. I worked for one of the biggest petroleum and chemical inspection companies and was the highest in volume location (ny harbor) for a few years. All gas and diesel is sold between clients all the time and the same gas you get at cosco is the same at Exxon. They all sell and buy between each other all the time. The only difference is the additives they add at the end for "cleaning injectors" blah blah. Now the additive was not regulated and checked so wouldn't be able to tell you if they actually do anything or if it is total bs. They are always selling between each other and had ethanol client chains of 15 clients sometimes. I know the feeling people get sometimes and it's all in your head most of the time unless the pump is doing shady stuff. I get the feeling my car is running better once I get that oil changed. Now water and gas don't mix they will sometimes have some free floating matter in tanks with mixers when they are doing their blends. At the pump it will have all the water sink to bottom and unless you have a Truck filling up the storage tanks to mix it you will not get any of that. Now I will say Euro gas is better that US gas in the sense they offer higher octane. We get Euro gas here but they use that to blend it to **** gas they have to meet the min requirements. Now ULSD Im not too sure but may be the same. At the end of the day when they say 87 or 93 it is what it is and Cetane is no different.

geselle47

I have a 2011 GL 350, just had the inner cooler engine replaced 2 months ago. Now the dealer says I have a stretched timing chain. Is this normal for a 2011 Bluetec? And when they replaced the inner cooler engine, shouldn't they have noticed the timing chain?

Frustrusted...

coldslug

Is your engine making a rattling noise at startup for 1 or 2 second when he's cold. If yes probably the same thing happens with my ml350blue 2011 .it's not really the chain that is stretched but the gears that are worned. For my part 1/16 of inch on each there of all the sprockets. My mechanic had to replace them. When he finally got the chain cover off the chain was so loose that he just had to pull it out with his bear hand!!! Never saw this on those engine prior to 2010. Mb maybe won't admit it but the quality of internals dropped to lower level some how.my mechanic told me that kind of job have to be done between 500kand 1 billion kilometers! My part had to be done at 65k!

MinhChau

Hi folks

I have the same problem too. after a couple days of searching I this from others threat "Making a weird noise on start up.Please help!"

Is there anyway we can file a law suit so they would pay for this sht but not us? I believe it happens to all GL320/ML450/ML550...... correct me is I'm wrong.

and I'm wondering that why we bring the car to MB to fix or advise but we end up with Salesman (Service Adviser) I think they get commission right??

B Marques

Same noise on my 2010 with 65k miles

MinhChau

You are in US, just bring the paper to your State ...lawyer ? and a copy to the dealer, they may fix for you free!

jasonjeross

Grab your ankles, let the car warm up, drive to your nearest NON-MB dealer and trade your truck in before it loses any more value. You aren't going to make MB pay for crap (especially if you are out of warranty, read my story closely). You more than likely do not have deep enough pockets to fight their lawyers (or time). It's a lost battle. You bought a piece of crap, MB doesn't stand behind their vehicles, and you learned a very expensive lesson: Mercedes makes junk cars now. If you think otherwise you are blinded by "love of the star brand" (which you should now be wise to).

samiran

So.........

Not to necro this thread, but......

I swear, I heard my engine make the SAME sound again this morning, on a cold start. Softer than I remember, and it only lasted a second or two, but ... I'm shocked.

Has anyone have this timing chain stretch issue recur?? Is it possible I heard something else?

I'm going to video my car starting tomorrow morning, and see if I catch it in the act. This is less than 24 months later, and about 26,000 miles after the first repair (114,000 miles).

BlownV8

I don't see why it could not reoccur.

jasonjeross

Did you think Mercedes actually redesigned the poorly designed timing chain system on your engine?

They slapped on the same junk as before and you got another measly 26000 miles out of the pile.

Just to let you know, this is the ONLY engine I've ever owned (or worked on) that has timing chain destruction. It's a junk design, but good luck suing. MB will admit nothing and will do nothing.

KrustyKustom

Are you sure?!
Did they replace your timing chain tensioner when they did the job? You did yours about when I did mine and mine has 94k miles on it and smooth as silk so far. The only thing I can think of is if all of the sprockets were not replaced previously and the chain was extremely stretched it could prematurely wear the new chain with old sprockets.

Listen close on cold start. Also what oil are you using since the discontinued the 5/40? I have been using the MB branded 5/30 for the diesels.

MinhChau

Folks,
Sometimes it does make noise, sometimes don't, does not matter cold or hot, sound like rattling, feel like no sex tonight!

Problem: The timing chain tensioner, cost me $800, the belt the pulley, labor
Located on the drivers side.

Problem solved!

KrustyKustom

The timing chain tensioner is on the passenger side. The serpentine tensioner is on the drivers side for the poly belt. This repair is on a whole easier level than the timing chain.

I think the parts are 800.00 for the timing chain alone...

samiran

Caught it in the act today, for sure. Hood open, head near engine. It's the same noise. Seems to be getting progressively worse.

Using correct Mobil 1 5/30 oil, with updated MB spec on bottle. Interval a little ahead of schedule (about 8k miles, roughly when 1500 miles are left). Car had been babied, oil level constantly checked, non-biodiesel almost exclusively, nearly all highway miles, garage parked. I can't imagine how I could have been a more diligent owner.

Repair included replacement of balance shaft, all timing gears, guides, chain, tensioner. About $8K total, and 6 weeks in the shop.

I'm going to contact MB, but I'm done I think. It's absolutely, madly, insane for a timing chain not to last 26k miles. Frankly, if a vehicle has a major failure like this, twice, I can't imagine it being safe to carry your family in.

Jasonjeross is correct, I think. This car is absolutely junk. Time to buy something more reliable, like an Yugo.

BlownV8

The gasser is great but the diesel definitely has major issues. 200,000+ k miles on my 450 and it's been a dream.

alx

And I have seen diesels with 300-400k miles that have only the rear airbags replaced. Your point?

The diesel is made to last longer. One look at the crank, conrods, block bracing and you will know this to be true. Some do develop expensive problems, but this is mostly because people don't know how to maintain or how to drive them (you don't drive a diesel like you drive a gasser).

samiran

alx, The design may be good or bad, I don't know, and what you say may be true, but, clearly there is something wrong for quite a few of these engines to have sufffered timing chain failures.

I'll admit, my GL came to me used, so I do not know if and how it was abused before me. The MB maintenance records suggested it had been maintained as per specification.

However, since then, I'm certain that it has been driven and maintained properly. There is simply no reason for a 2nd timing chain to have failed without a serious manufacturing issue with the engine.

alx, I understand you are an MB mechanic, and thus are invested in the brand. However, I'll tell you an anecdote as to why I'm absolutely disgusted with the brand, and I say that as someone that oversees the purchase of millions of $$ of mechanical equipment, much of which involves complex gear boxes, hydraulic systems, and precision manufacturing.

My other car is a Lexus HS250h, a 2010. Lexus recently discovered that certain HS250h are exceeding their maximum specified oil consumption, or 1 L / 1000 miles, primarily through leaking piston rings. They conducted a fleet with TSB, allowing owners to come in for a 1000 mile oil consumption test. Should oil consumption exceed 1 L / 1000 miles, Lexus will replace the engine's long block, at their expense. Regardless of miles or years.

Clearly, in my engine, and in some other people who have posted on this forum, MB has a serious manufacturing flaw. They won't own up to it, rather, with represenatives reassuring me that the "problem will not occur".

In my work, we have similar issues, however, these are primarily with Chinese suppliers. When we buy American or European equipment, we expect that the mfg will stand behind it. When we buy Chinese equipment, we expect that we will have to fix it ourselves, and that it will require more fixing.

MB charges European or American prices, but provides Chinese levels of service. When we see that with our vendors in the USA, those are vendors we expect to loose market share, or go out of business.

No one expects MB to go out of business, but in this scenario, unless they step up and take responsibility for this issue (which, given their past behavior, and experience of others on the forum, I do not expect), I'm stunned by their irresponsibility.

One more anecdote. You are a tech that stands behind this product. I've spoken to 3 independent shops in my area (Chicagoland-Milwaukee), and all three believe that the OM642, as applies to MLs and GLs, is garbage, and "simply doesn't last". 20 months ago, when MB was doing the first timing chain, their advice was ignore the guides, roll the new chain, and get rid of the thing before it time-bombs on you.

In retrospect, they would seem to have been correct.

If anyone is wondering what I recommend as an alternative, I'd suggest the Infiniti QX80, or Ford Expedition EL. Both have similar fuel consumption as the GL Bluetec, are larger, have a higher towing capacity, with nearly the same amount of torque, and far higher HP.

BlownV8

You may find the occasional one with no issues: however, from years of reading about all the issues on the diesel GL/ML, I would say that is the exception rather than the rule. The timing chain issues and turbo seal issues, in my opinion, are a serious manufacturing problem that should be addressed.

samiran

Don't forget oil cooler seals.

jasonjeross

You must really love the star brand.

Countless people are reporting the EXACT same issue with low mileage OM64 diesel engines, yet here you are like clockwork defending the brand and how "reliable" they are.

You would have got along fabulously with the "expert" at the MB dealer I dealt with who tried to blame the front left creaking noise on a defective control arm bushing. Of course when I asked to see the old bushing next to the new bushing there was absolutely zero difference other than dirt (as one would expect with less than 50000 miles at that time).

Please stop posting in this thread, you spout utter bs.


As for everyone else with this issue, I feel for you. I have never and will never again deal with such a terrible vehicle experience. You would all be wise to spread the word about how wonderful MB has become (sarcasm mode on ultra high). Apparently MB thinks word of mouth means nothing (nor has heard the sales phrase "A single negative review trumps 100 positive reviews").

alx

I don't love the star brand. Or hate it for that matter. I am sharing my (vast) experience with repairs. I also know professionals servicing other brands. Mercedes is no different. There are thousands of trucks and a small number had issues. The Mercedes owners however are a special breed with heightened sense of entitlement. So when something goes boom, those owners tend to be vocal. Check lesser brand dealer repair shops- every one has engines out, torn apart and waiting for expensive repairs. No one brand is immune to that. Matter of fact. The om642 motor is extremely reliable and has been made in large numbers - mostly for commercial use (sprinter). The vast majority of those are abused daily and some of the approach 500k and more miles. That engine reaches full compression (i.e. fully broken in) at 100k miles and beyond. They are reliable. Very reliable. Yes, there are bad apples- but as mentioned we tend to hear about those due to the demographics of the typical mb owner.

Interesting observation- last higher mileage 450 I got my hands on came in for loss of power- 175k miles- all dealer serviced with full records- all cylinders were between 10 and 30% down on compression and when I tore it apart it was just one tired engine with leaky heads and worn rings and cams starting to show wear on middle cylinders. Just a data point.

BlownV8

There is definitely an issue with the diesel in the GL or the way the GL is being used is affecting the reliability. Could the problems stem from short trips and too frequent starts and stops? We know a diesel shines when it is run for a long time. Could it be the right engine for the wrong application?

alx

Good question. Possibly. The diesel does not like to start and stop. Lots of compression puts a stress on the valve train when it is spun by the starter alone. Not to mention that the high pressure fuel pump is driven by the engine and when the starter spins everything and the pump the adiabatic resistance is significant which puts great strain on the timing chain and the valve train altogether. It also does not like to rev. If you are driving a diesel and you find that to suit your driving style you have to rev it past 2500 rpms- it is the wrong engine for you. There is a reason why peak tq is at 2500 rpms The Diesel engine is efficient and reaches operating temp very slowly. The glow plugs are used to speed up warming up, but bottom line is wear and tear is significantly more when below operating temp. Big heavy reciprocating assembly is like that. The diesel has its own cadence and everything is slower- learn to live with it and it will live forever. So you might have a point.

jasonjeross

I take offense to your statement of "heightened sense of entitlement".

More like, when someone pays $70,000 for a glorified SUV (that by the way is supposed to be the best one there is) only to find the engine having catastrophic issues at under 100k on the clock...THAT is the major issue.

I would agree if I was the only one reporting this. Heck, I'd even agree if this happened due to negligence. Neither are the case.

MB made me feel like in my over 30 years of car maintenance/etc that I was incompetent, it was NORMAL to have "maintenance" like this (timing chains are NOT maintenance items in any world), and that perhaps it was caused by a dirty air filter (I **** you not, the service advisor AND manager tried that line on me).

Fast forward to this thread and ouila, apparently lots of people are at fault for timing chains stretching.

As for type of driving/etc. Spare me. The GL is sold as a family hauling vehicle. IF for whatever reason the OM64 is NOT designed for short distance trips then the vehicle should never have been offered with a diesel. I guess all the VW driving mothers with diesels should be having endless timing chain issues also? Exactly.

Alx, you are exactly the reason I do NOT take my vehicles to so called "professional mechanics". Every one of them has excuses, half truths, or outright lies the majority of the time. I can't tell you how frustrating it is when my senior citizen father calls me to tell me about how "My mechanic said this....." only to have to tell him what the issue really is and that I can fix it for pennies in comparison (great example: He was told his "ECM is bad". I had him get it scanned via a scanner at a parts store. All codes pop as front O2 sensor. Guess what it was? Front O2 sensor for under $80 and 30 minutes in my garage). Next.

Alx, what do you drive personally? I'm curious.