Dalema

Hi. I posted this in the X166 forum - but thought X164 owners may have more experience - let me know your thoughts:

"Hi all. Bringing this topic up again as it looks like there is now an alternative - looking for input from those that maybe have experience in the larger tire size.

My 2013 GL450 came with the 19 inch wheels and the dreaded / horrible (for snow) Contis. There was initially no real alternatives for an "all season" M+S tire in the 275/55R19 size.

I don't need dedicated snow tires as I'm in Bay Area and just need something to get me up to the Sierras and back.

Anyway, thought I'd check tire rack again and see they now have Pirelli Scorpion Zero in the correct 19 inch size for the all season.

Does anyone have experience with these with respect to their performance in snow - I thought they may have been MB OEM on the 21 or 20 inch wheels?

Link to tire: http://www.pirelli.com/tire/us/en/su...pion_zero.html "

alx

I personally think anything Pirelli is junk...

Just my 2 cents

kustom2k1

Had them on my F150 and they lasted 65k miles, just replaced them with new ones. Great tires for the long haul and used for 3 seasons in NY snow with great performance.

mrchris

As some others on here have done, I went with 255/60-19's. The rolling diameter is virtually identical (something like .002% different so within the wear range of the tread itself). This opened up a lot of options.

I went with the Michelin Latitude in that size. Wet traction is fantastic and it's eliminated any hydroplaning I was experiencing on the Conti's. We did one trip up into the mountains with snow and they performed as well as my last Jeep GC did wearing Goodyear Fortera's. Recent brief snow here in Seattle they performed as well as anything else I've driven on and again a huge improvement over the Conti's.

Best part was a set of 4 in that size range, installed and out the door under $850 and a 65,000 mile warranty.

N_Jay

Do you notice much difference in handling or ride comfort with a 20mm narrower tire?

Dalema

Worse than the contis though?

Dalema

That sounds promising - how was the noise over time? How was the braking / turning performance?

Dalema

Thanks - will take a look at that path too. I used to have Michelin LTX on an expedition a while back and that tire was great in the snow.

mrchris

No not at all. Theoretically they wouldn't perform as well at the limits such as hard cornering but even as spirited as I drive our GL I've been no where close to exceeding the limits of the tires.

I had horrible problems with the Conti's hydroplaning at anything over about 58/60mph. I can do 90 in heavy rain without a worry now. Even if I did lose something in dry performance as much as it rains here in Seattle it would still be a good tradeoff, but the reality is these tires work well. Given the price difference, long warranty and snow performance I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

justthebest

Love my set of Scorpions. No issues, and they absolutely dominate the snow. I'd recommend them without hesitation.

kustom2k1

I drive my truck like a sports car, trust me it isn't easy and I would not have replaced them with the same make/model if they weren't a great tire since I have access to all the makes through the shop I'm with.

Road noise is minimal, they soak up bumps pretty well for a hard tire and handle extremely well.

Dalema

Thx!

Dalema

Cool - thx!

Ntuck

Mrchris -I used to have these tires ages ago on my old Jeep Cherokee. I am sort of in the same boat as Dalema. I have the Conti's on my 2014 GL 350 and they are ok. I wish I could put BF Goodrich All Terrains on the GL, but the tire size is horrible with the 19's and aren't a lot of tires that fit. Interesting to know you did the 255/60/19. My question to you is do you notice any difference in the MPG? I also had great mileage out of the LTX's when I had them and went 75K on them. Thanks!

mrchris

I can't say it improved mileage but it certainly didn't hurt. I've had a lot of extra variables that influence mileage for me. I put 93 octane non ethanol added fuel (the non-winter blend as some know it) as there is a Grange near one of my clients that has it.

The wife though puts in the crappy 10% ethanol mix from Safeway. Pretty noticeable difference between the two and I just changed plugs and air filters, so it's been tough to get a good read on the tires effect.

But overall I've been exceptionally happy with them, and will replace with the same. I have a second set of wheels and have thought about getting some OE sized tires for summer use but the longer I drive on the Michelin's the happier I am just leaving it as is.

pkvoss

My scorpions were garbage, very noisy and prematurely wore out.
I recently installed conti lx20 in 255-60-19 which maintains the speedo. These are very good in the snow and all seasons, check out the reviews on tirerack.

pkvoss

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...LX20&tab=Sizes

pkvoss

https://mbworld.org/forums/members/p...mage-41816.jpg

https://mbworld.org/forums/members/p...0&ref=gnr-next

pkvoss

This size meets the minimum load rating of (per the 2007 owners manual) 109...111 is the load rating of the scorpion and conti 4x4.
I've attached a picture of the owners manual in the link below.

asitreadalong

I own a GL 450 and I own a tire retail store. Pirelli and Conti are NOT junk. They are some of the best tires made in the world. They do not perform well in snow. No all season tire does. All season rubber is not designed to perform well under freezing. Snow tires don't perform well above freezing. There is no cure all. I have the Contis for all season and love the ride and traction. I have Nokian snow tires on in the winter and they work wonders. Tires DONT wear out prematurely they simply reflect a poor relationship to the road if the wheels are out of balance or the car is out of alignment or parts are worn. I never advocate switching sizes unless the manufacturer allows you to drop a size for winter. Most german car mfc. post the alternate size on the door jam.

Just my 2c

N_Jay

Wondering why not? (As long as the rolling diameter is close and the load rating is appropriate.)



Given the same chassis (ML and GL) (and Jeep Grand Cherokee, and Durango) come from the factory with such a wide range of wheel/tire combinations.

mrchris

You are right in that a blanket "Pirelli or Conti are junk" isn't accurate in the same sense saying that Toyota or Subaru or Ford are junk also isn't. However just like there is a wide variation between models and every manufacturer has built a turdball here and there that influences opinions, same holds true of the tire manufacturers.

My one and only experience with Subaru was a brand new Justy when they first hit the market. 600 miles on the odomoter and the belts on the CVT were toast and not only could they not figure out how to get parts, but also not sure how to fix it. Took 3 months. Weird little car and based on that experience I don't hold Subaru in very high regard. But they have surely built many a fine car that others love.

Continental and Pirelli certainly build lots of good tires. But the particular, limited, tires they make that fit the GL are not their best models. Pirelli's have been hit and miss for most with quick wear and significant increases in road noise once down to about 60% remaining tread. Conti's perform well on dry pavement but are excessively prone to hydroplaning on this particular vehicle. That doesn't mean as a brand they are "crap" but it does mean they might not be the best option for many people on this particular vehicle.

Different tires have different characteristics designed in that influence wear, longevity, dry and wet traction, etc. This vehicle is tough on tire wear and most wear out faster than one would expect but a softer tire compound will exacerbate that.

As for the size I recommended, it is well within the range of sizes specified by MB as it is slightly larger than their recommended winter/snow tire. It meets the speed and load ratings and performs quite well. Is it the right option for everyone? No, but it works well for me and a 65,000 mile tire warranty and a premium tire for half the price makes it that much better. If I was driving my GL the same way I drive my SLK then the slightly narrower Michelin's might not be the answer.

In that same vein I run Hankook's on my SLK as do many of the SLK owners, they perform very well on dry pavement, wear evenly and are priced competitively. But I threw a set of their SUV tires on my last Grand Cherokee shortly before selling it to replace the nearly worn out Goodyear's that I loved. Well just because Hankook makes great sport tires, their LT/SUV offering was terrible. Noisy, couldn't get them balanced right, etc. Odd wear patterns that didn't happen with the Goodyears. Bottom line they weren't the right tire for that vehicle.

If I lived in Arizona and saw one or two rainy days a year and drove my GL like an F1 driver I'd probably stick with the Conti's. In the Great Pacific Northwest they are not the best choice. Saying that tire isn't the best option isn't the same as saying it's crap.

asitreadalong

Primarily it can change alignment readings and lead to premature wear. It can affect abs and traction control depending on the degree of % change. There are unique circumstances, what are you trying to achieve by changing sizes?

asitreadalong

This car out of the showroom with the stock tires is considered (and I agree) one of the best riding if not the best riding vehicles on the road. Nowhere do I hear complaints on hydroplaning or loss of control. If you've got 40,000+ miles on your tires and you have ride issues it's time to buy new tires. If you're looking for a less expensive tire on your Mercedes well then that's fine but please don't tell me Hankooks are better than Pirelli's or Conti's in any head to head comparisons.

mrchris

You are right, it is a great riding vehicle and the ride is one of the qualities that keeps me putting up with some of its quirks.

If you go back and actually read what I said, I never said Hankooks were better than Pirelli's or Conti's. What I said was they make a tire that works very well and is very popular on the SLK's and I agree with the common sentiment on that, they have done very well on mine. I did not like their tires on my previous SUV.

The 320's have narrower tires and are generally more popular here in the NW because of the diesel engine. But those with 450's and especially the 550's have horrible hydroplaning issues. A buddy of mine with a 550 finally changed tires out of desperation as his wife wanted to trade it in for another vehicle.

Here is another thread that discusses it as well, another GL owner here in the NW. http://www.benzworld.org/forums/x-16...size-your.html

If you live somewhere with minimal rain, great. But here the roads are wet 10 months out of the year. 50% of the time there is significant standing water. All else being equal larger tire footprint will reduce the speed at which hydroplaning occurs. In other parts of the country people tend to slow down when it rains. If we did that here we'd never get where we were going.

The Conti's aren't terrible new, and they are fine dry. But put 8K to 12K miles on them and then drive through a normal Seattle November rain storm. They don't work. If that means replacing them every 6 to 8K miles to keep wet performance adequate, I'm going to find an alternative if possible. After discussing it with the service manager of the Indy shop I take both my MB's to, and with their recommended tire store both suggested the narrower Michelin's and I've been nothing but happy.

Sure you can get to extremes and mess things up, but it's a relatively subtle change that works well. Don't be afraid to think outside the box.